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Anyways to keep it short the e-c, is not exactly the best on this problem, unless they change things in the future how things should be done.
So what about all of those games where you buy ingame currency? Where you need to fill out the stuff in order to buy it.
This is the exact same thing. You're buying made up money.
You could also compare this to buying a month long subscription on like Netflix or Amazon prime. You don't get anything delivered to your house and you're not buying a physical item. It just allows you to watch some videos.
Steam wallet is a real transaction and like any other store they ask for this type of stuff.
a credit card or bank or money transfer requires you to assure them its your cards, money, etc.
That is something separate. pay with a card or bank transfer here it's legit they verify it.
a wallet card? nope.
this is an apples and oranges. maybe even further off than that because at least apples and oranges are both fruits. instead you are talking about in-game currency and comparing it to a gift card, which is different legally. in addition you are comparing the commonsense and legal requirements to take reasonable steps to ensure that the payment method (if not cash) is both functional and legitimate.
when you buy in game currency you are usually using a bank card, credit card, money transfer, etc to pay for that currency.
the key is you are using something to buy something and what you are using requires some verification. its to stop me from using your credit card...
netflix is asking because you are PAYING for their service with a credit card or bank card or whatever.
if you went to a store and bought the in-game currency there then it is at issue for the store to assure themselves it is you that is using your payment method.
in other words if i went to a store and bought a gift card with cash and the store reports the gift card as successfully sold and activates the code as legit then valve has ZERO grounds to ask me for ANYTHING except the absolute bare minimum necessary to pay the taxes to the appropriate country.
to do so it needs two data points but has THREE. it has my self declared country, it has my ip address, and it has the location of where the gift card was sold to me. it doesnt need more than that to have made a good faith attempt to establish my taxable location. so sayeth the law.
the law also says it is NOT ALLOWED to collect more than the bare minimum needed to have made that good faith attempt. asking me my city, zip code, name, address, and earlier phone number are all explicitly NOT ALLOWED by european privacy laws. its not legal.
wait a few years and the eu is going to bend valve over and fine them billions for this.and the forums havent been shouting this fact for some months now.
Bear in mind that your billing address is a data point.
edit: according to EU law
keep in mind they need two data points.
keep in mind they are supposed to take the least intrusive data points
keep in mind they already have your ip address, your declared address, and where you bought the wallet card from.
so tell me why they "NEED" another.
As for why two are needed, again, EU law.
Well as its been pointed out repeatedly we all know where you buy the wallet card doesn't matter and is not a factor at all for taxes. What matters is the location you reside in when you make the purchase using those wallet funds.
That is how the US, canada, and Europe work at least. Gift cards are tax free, because the business will charge you based on where you live when you spend the money, they don't tax you based on where you bought the card from.
Still basically the same thing.
With Steam wallet money most people have used a real creditcard to put funds into it.
Also you can buy a gift card for Netflix if you want. But they still asks for information.
Yes there are those who haven't put in any money themselves and only gotten it from cards but because most people use a creditcard it's just asking for it.
Buying ingame currency and putting in money into the Steam wallet with a creditcard is basically the same thing. You are paying for a made up currency. You can use both to buy digital stuff that the game or game client uses.
But you don't always add money to the Steam wallet with a gift card. I'm betting the majority of the people use a creditcard. I know I do.
Netflix can take a gift card as well and they still asks for information. So this whole Gift card argument isn't holding up.
Even if you add all your money via gift cards it still doesnt matter.
I'm not sure why people keep repeating that erroneous information but the location a gift card was sold doesn't mean jack as gift cards are not taxed. I mean just imagine if they taxed it based on where you bought it.
Then you'd have a scenario where 5 people in the same address can buy the same game on steam and pay 5 different prices because their gift card came from 5 different places.
I mean heck, imagine this
1- Buy $10 gift card from country with 5% tax
2- Buy $10 gift card from country with 7% tax
3- Buy $20 gift card from country with 10% tax
So then if you were to use that to buy a $39.99 game steam would have to calculate you paying 5% tax on the first $10, then 7% tax on the second $10, then 10% tax on the remaining $19.99 which is not how it works.
You pay 1 tax rate based on where you live when you make your purchase. The location you bought the cards from aren't a factor at all.
One thing’s for sure if you’re a digital-based business: The rules about digital tax worldwide are constantly changing and yes, they do affect you.
A widespread trend happening across countries is that governments want to charge tax based on the location of the purchaser of the product. You might be kicking back in Spain thinking you’re okay paying taxes locally, but in fact you do need to consider the rules of other jurisdictions.
https://quaderno.io/blog/what-you-must-know-about-vat-if-you-have-customers-in-europe/
Why are non-EU businesses responsible for EU VAT?
Because European governments want to ensure they receive taxes on all goods and services consumed by their citizens, even goods and services coming from other parts of the world. Physical products are taxed at customs. Digital products obviously don’t cross any borders to pass through customs, so digital products have VAT added.
If foreign businesses weren’t required to charge VAT, imagine the disadvantage that would place on EU-based businesses. Their products would cost more. Their local customers would look outside the country to find something cheaper, and EU businesses would suffer. Then, when the EU businesses suffer and make fewer sales, their governments collect less tax.
So, requiring non-EU businesses to charge VAT evens the playing field for native vendors, and it increases the EU governments’ tax revenues. It’s all economics, baby.
so if ip and stated location differed then where was the giftcard bought can provide a data point.
no one ever said it was related to anything else brian. but nice strawman on tax rates and pretending that had anything to do with the point made. which is that where the gift card is bought can indeed count as a data point.
@ edifer - if you are adding funds with a cc or bank card then you cant argue if they ask your name and address. thats due diligence and is related to the method of purchase. that includes steam as well.
a giftcard (steamcard) is purchased elsewhere. where you purchased it is responsible for verifying id if using a payment method that requires it or just putting cash in the register, etc.
at that point steam doesnt need it. it was done elsewhere.
the vast majority of this thread is precisely about steamcards and asking for identity.
not about using a credit card to fill it, or a debit card. a steam card.
and ... wait for it .. one i bought with cash ;)
Except it means nothing. Gift card's are used as gifts. Their very nature means that they are given out and used elsewhere.
Show ANYONE who uses the location of a gift card as proof of your address for tax. Just because you don't like the answer doesn't change it. A gift card has never been accepted as a valid data point of where someone lives and has absolutely nothing to do with taxes.
is a much better thread for this and your point was addressed very well a few times in that thread.
and you know that.
Close, but subtly wrong in case of the EU. What matter is not the location at which you reside when you make the purchase, or even your registered home address. What matters is the location where the purchased goods or services are expected to mainly be consumed. That location counts as the place of supply, i.e. Member State of Consumption for the EU.
Those can and do differ. I could have a registered billing address in Germany, be on holiday in Spain and order something from Steam, but my regular residence at the time could be out-of-state on an extended business trip to France and I was making a purchase to have something to play on my laptop in the evenings.
In that particular case, the Member State of Consumption would be France, not Germany.
This is why several forms of historical customer information are cited as examples of valid data points of evidence in the official explanatory notes[ec.europa.eu] for implementing regulation 1042/2013, which regulates those points of evidence.
Those explanatory notes literally state the above scenario as the reason for including those:
Those same notes also explain that the registered permanent address of a consumer, i.e. what they would supply as billing address, should only be used if there is other evidence that the purchase is actually to be consumed there. For all other purchases the 'usual residence' - which can be inferred from other points of evidence - should be used: