Valve not complying with EU law

[Hagakure]

Hey , what's up wit Valve not refunding games from EU buyers that requested a refund under 2 weeks of buying it? This is against the EU Law.

Also, whats up with Valve allowing companies to sell games that aren't finished? I bough Starpoint Gemini 3, and not only isn't the game not even nearly worth of the beta title the whole advertising is a scam.


EDIT: Since most people replying seem to not have a clue, here help yourselves,

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/index_en.htm


https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/shopping-consumer-rights/index_en.htm#not-what-ordered-distance-1

The goods you receive should match what was advertised or agreed and what you thought you were buying. If your goods are not what you ordered – for example, the wrong colour, incorrect size, or missing functionalities – you are entitled to a free of charge repair, replacement, or, failing that, a price reduction (on your original purchase) or a refund.

When you buy goods outside regular shops (online or through a catalogue for example), you can always return them under the rules of the 14-day cooling off period simply because you changed your mind. This means you would be entitled to a full refund. However, you may need to pay for the cost of returning your purchase.

Find out more about cancelling and returning an order

Sometimes it's not immediately clear that your goods aren't what you ordered. For example, if you buy a new laptop online and you only realise some months later that the memory capacity does not match what you ordered. In these cases you are still entitled to a repair or replacement to bring the goods into conformity with what you ordered, or, where neither is possible, a price reduction or a refund.

These solutions are your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.

Read more about guarantees and returns in your country

[Crazy Tiger]

If you played it more than 2 hours, you're not within the refund policy. Keep in mind that on checkout it's explicitly listed that you waive your rights. That *is* according the EU directives. Actually, the refund policy is more than is required by EU directives as they are currently.

Early access games are listed as not complete games that may or may not change. You buy the game as-is at that point, the store page even warns you about that.

[Hagakure]

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

If you played it more than 2 hours, you're not within the refund policy. Keep in mind that on checkout it's explicitly listed that you waive your rights. That *is* according the EU directives.

We're in Europe you can't waive your rights. In fact Valve's TOS doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥ against the law.

This isn't the US where everyone can make up their own laws and sue as they feel like it

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

IThat *is* according the EU directives.

See, making up stuff already. It isn't.

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Early access games are listed as not complete games that may or may not change. You buy the game as-is at that point, the store page even warns you about that.

The listed game is a scam. Its advertised as one thing and presented as another completely diferent.

I wont go into the lack of content and the gamebugs, its just plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Ogami]

The entire Steam refund policy conforms to EU refund laws.
In fact, they would not even need to offer ANY refunds.
As long as you waive your rights to refunds at purchase and get informed of that.
Which Steam does. That is 100% legal under EU law.
The Steam refund policy is entirely a courtesy of Valve at this point.

Also, Early Access titles clearly state, on the store page, in a big extra box, that Early Access titles are not finished, may never be finished and may not turn out the way you want it.
It states " only buy if you are satisfied with the game in its current presented state".

If you cant do that, dont buy Early Access versions and wait for the full release.
Its that simple.

Do yourself a favor and read this:

"EU Right of Withdrawal and Steam Refunds"
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

[Seretti]

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

IThat *is* according the EU directives.

See, making up stuff already. It isn't.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516&l=

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

If you played it more than 2 hours, you're not within the refund policy. Keep in mind that on checkout it's explicitly listed that you waive your rights. That *is* according the EU directives.

We're in Europe you can't waive your rights. In fact Valve's TOS doesn't mean ♥♥♥♥ against the law.

This isn't the US where everyone can make up their own laws and sue as they feel like it

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

IThat *is* according the EU directives.

See, making up stuff already. It isn't.

Nope, not making up stuff. This is still in effect currently: https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

The EU directives with regards to digital content will change in 2021, but as they are now, you waive your rights on checkout. The refund policy is better than necessary for the current EU directives.

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Early access games are listed as not complete games that may or may not change. You buy the game as-is at that point, the store page even warns you about that.

The listed game is a scam. Its advertised as one thing and presented as another completely diferent.

I wont go into the lack of content and the gamebugs, its just plain ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

It's advertised as a not finished game. That is also what it is.

[aiusepsi]

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Hey , what's up wit Valve not refunding games from EU buyers that requested a refund under 2 weeks of buying it? This is against the EU Law.

No, it's not.

Look at the text of the Consumer Rights Directive, specifically Article 16: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:02011L0083-20220528&from=EN#tocId22

Member States shall not provide for the right of withdrawal set out in Articles 9 to 15 in respect of distance and off-premises contracts as regards the following:

...

(m) contracts for the supply of digital content which is not supplied on a tangible medium if the performance has begun and, if the contract places the consumer under an obligation to pay, where:
(i) the consumer has provided prior express consent to begin the performance during the right of withdrawal period;
(ii) the consumer has provided acknowledgement that he thereby loses his right of withdrawal; and
(iii) the trader has provided confirmation in accordance with Article 7(2) or Article 8(7).

[Kargor]

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

The EU directives with regards to digital content will change in 2021, but as they are now, you waive your rights on checkout. The refund policy is better than necessary for the current EU directives.

And while I'm not a lawyer, I don't think such a change will be "major" in any way.

The idea behind letting companies exclude certain content from the 14 day withdrawal rule is to prevent abuse. I mean, buy a movie that runs for 2 hours, watch it, and refund it within 14 days. That sounds... abusive, right? Even works with games that can be played in 14 days.

And that's why there NEED to be exceptions. Having a generic "14 day refund" regulation with no exceptions would just kill certain markets entirely.

[aiusepsi]

Originally posted by Kargor:

And that's why there NEED to be exceptions. Having a generic "14 day refund" regulation with no exceptions would just kill certain markets entirely.

Yeah, this is exactly why there's a bunch of exceptions to the withdrawal right in Article 16 of the Consumer Rights Directive, including things like perishable goods and things that have been customised; you can't expect a business to just take back something you've had your name engraved on, for example!

[Hagakure]

Originally posted by Ogami:

The entire Steam refund policy conforms to EU refund laws.
In fact, they would not even need to offer ANY refunds.
As long as you waive your rights to refunds at purchase and get informed of that.
Which Steam does. That is 100% legal under EU law.
The Steam refund policy is entirely a courtesy of Valve at this point.

Also, Early Access titles clearly state, on the store page, in a big extra box, that Early Access titles are not finished, may never be finished and may not turn out the way you want it.
It states " only buy if you are satisfied with the game in its current presented state".

If you cant do that, dont buy Early Access versions and wait for the full release.
Its that simple.

Do yourself a favor and read this:

"EU Right of Withdrawal and Steam Refunds"
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

Since you are marked as german im just going to assume that you can't read english properly because i already did myself a favour by reading the eu law and reading that piece you sent that also states the same, i have the right to the refund, its one of the first lines actually,

Here for your convenience ,

Right of withdrawal

As a Steam user domiciled in a European Union member country, you have the right to withdraw from any purchase on Steam without giving any reason.

Everything else is just senseless dribble what you wrote.

[Matt]

This is a user forum. There's really no need to argue here; you're wasting your time. Contact support for refund requests.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by Hagakure:

Originally posted by Ogami:

The entire Steam refund policy conforms to EU refund laws.
In fact, they would not even need to offer ANY refunds.
As long as you waive your rights to refunds at purchase and get informed of that.
Which Steam does. That is 100% legal under EU law.
The Steam refund policy is entirely a courtesy of Valve at this point.

Also, Early Access titles clearly state, on the store page, in a big extra box, that Early Access titles are not finished, may never be finished and may not turn out the way you want it.
It states " only buy if you are satisfied with the game in its current presented state".

If you cant do that, dont buy Early Access versions and wait for the full release.
Its that simple.

Do yourself a favor and read this:

"EU Right of Withdrawal and Steam Refunds"
https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=8620-QYAL-4516

Since you are marked as german im just going to assume that you can't read english properly because i already did myself a favour by reading the eu law and reading that piece you sent that also states the same, i have the right to the refund, its one of the first lines actually,

Here for your convenience ,

Right of withdrawal

As a Steam user domiciled in a European Union member country, you have the right to withdraw from any purchase on Steam without giving any reason.

Everything else is just senseless dribble what you wrote.

How about you read the rest of it.

European law principally provides a right of withdrawal on software sales. However, it can be and typically is excluded for boxed software that has been opened and for digitally provided content once it is provided to the end user. This is what happens when you make a transaction on Steam: The EU statutory right of withdrawal ends 14 days after your purchase or the moment you start downloading the content and services for the first time (whichever is sooner).

If your refund gets denied within 14 days, it means you downloaded and played the game, hence you waive your right to withdrawal.

[Hagakure]

Originally posted by Matt:

This is a user forum. There's really no need to argue here; you're wasting your time. Contact support for refund requests.

What support? The useless button i clicked multiple times and receive an automatically closed ticket with a standard template answer?

And here i was thinking that Valve had to provide proper customer support...

[Crazy Tiger]

Depending on how long you played the game, a manual ticket may be necessary. Find the purchase in the support pages, then choose "I have a question about this purchase". Keep in mind they still can say "no".

[Radene]

The law is still catching up with digital markets, and some places only now realize that they can't really use commerce laws that governed sale of physical goods or services that have a limited supply (like, a barber doesn't have infinite time) in an environment where you basically have an infinite supply of product to sell.

[Nx Machina]

1) Steam Refunds: Where Refunds Apply

The Steam refund offer, WITHIN two weeks of purchase and with LESS than two hours of playtime, applies to games and software applications on the Steam store.

NOTE: played more than 2 hours within two weeks. No refund.


2) EU Right of Withdrawal and Steam Refunds

European law principally provides a right of withdrawal on software sales. However, it can be and typically is excluded for boxed software that has been opened and for digitally provided content once it is PROVIDED to the end user. This is what happens when you make a transaction on Steam:

The EU statutory right of withdrawal ENDS 14 days after your purchase or the moment you start DOWNLOADING the content and servIces for the first time (whichever is sooner).

NOTE: Provided, Ends and Downloading.


3) Starpoint Gemini 3 is an EARLY ACCESS title - in development, supplied as is. If you have a issue then also contact Epic who also do Early Access titles.


4) Advertising Scam? Early Access Game

Get instant access and start playing; get involved with this game as it develops.

Note: This Early Access game is not complete and may or may not change further. If you are not excited to play this game in its current state, then you should wait to see if the game progresses further in development.

Not reading the description does not make it a scam.