Stop greedy publishers to block Geforce Now

[saschaschwarz]

I am a Mac Guy. I own several "real" Mac and a very powerful hackintosh that I use for CAD. It is capable of playing actual games, if they are available for Mac. From time to time I like to play a game which is (i have to say "not yet" in some cases). Yeah, I could to dual boot, but that sucks.
Now Geforce Now lets me "rent" gaming hardware for 5,49€ a month for that I would have to pay several hundred € and refresh it all 2 years at least.
I can run most of the games I purchased on steam and I am happy with the provided service. Yes, for some hardcore gamers that need the max FPS that might not be good enough, but for me it is just perfect. And I can even play some games with a BT mouse and BT keyboard or game controller on my Amazon Fire Cube(with sideload) on my 75" TV.

What I always liked about Steam was the philosophy that I had to buy a game only once. I could buy the game when there is only a PC version and when the game later is ported to Mac I don´t need to buy it again. Also there is no HW looking. If I used my desktop at home, my Laptop on travel or maybe someone else´s PC, I just install steam, login and can play my games. (Not saying to let others play my games!)
This is why I use steam and prefer it over all other other platforms.

On the game consoles this is very different. I own a game for the PS3, but when I bought the PS4 I have to buy the PS4 version if the game. Ok you might argue that this is a different code, developed for a new platform.

But now some greedy publishers like 2K, Bethesda, Activision and Blizzard don´t allow you to play your games, that you have purchased a license, in the cloud.
So where is the difference if I use my HW, some rented or loan HW at my home, some HW at a friends home or in a vacation rental to play my games OR if I rent the HW from a cloud provider like Geforce Now? None, absolutely none.

But those greedy .... want to charge you again. Like with Googles Stadia where you had to purchase any game again just for Stadia and could play that game then only in Stadia.
And that is the reason that Stadia failed. Nobody wants to buy a game again oder and over.

If we, the customers don´t do anything the will screw us over.

Steam could help here, for example mark games that cannot be played in Geforce Now.
But I fear that Valve does not want to stand in for the rights of their customers if that means they might jeopardize the relations to some big publishers that bring in a lot of business.

[RedLightning]

引用自 brian9824：

引用自 Uueerdo：

Exactly, cafes only have to pay for the commercial license for Steam if their customers can only play the games that they (the customers) already own. They only need to buy commercial game licenses for games they want to offer their customers without requiring those customers to have their own licenses. This is effectively publishers wanting Geforce Now to pay for commercial game licenses to let their customers play the games for which they already have licenses.

...and since Valve is not raising issues with Geforce Now, I would presume they have already worked out some sort of "cafe" license.

Again thats false, its the same principle, but the implementation is different which is why its murkier. Especially as its been pointed out lots of EULA's have terms in them regarding not allowing the games to be played on VM's or streamed. The steam cafe is just the closest analogy there is right now, but it shows how you can't just comercially offer people access to steam accounts (even their own) without going thru special steps.

No one is talking about the commercial licenses that internet cafe's can purchase if they choose. That is completely different then the steam cafe licesne and is not related at all.

Also steam choosing to not take a stance on allowing it is in no way any remote hint of them having worked out a deal with nVidia. Especially as nVidia has already proven to have not worked out a deal with anyone else.

Again, read the article. It discusses all this, the legal issues, the licensing, etc.

Valve, in my opinion, lately has become a huge pushover, who just limits and abuses its users in light of competition. I'm sure they are just cowering in a corner not wanting to fight the likes of Nvidia..

I still wonder whats *next*.. the next big Valve thing.. and I doubt it will be fighting with NVIDIA..

More likely fighting with us.. a one sided battle where we only speak.

[Start_Running]

引用自 RedLightning：

What I find funny in all this.. NVIDIA stands to undermine their own video card business by renting game streaming to crap computers.

Nvidia cards are super expensive.. no wonder why.. perhaps if they just lowered the prices for their gaming cards they wouldn't have to pull stunts like this.

Not really. Me thinks that field was getting to a bad state. Developers don't dare develop for highend cards because too few people have them because of the absurd prices. ANd if you actually look around yuou'll find a lot of the rather popular games these days tend to be low end compatible or stylized. Eg...not games that requiore big honking gfx cards.

They're probably thinking this might also be a way to promote their cards in a 'looty at how cool this is, wouldn't it be killer iof you could have this on your home system?'

引用自 RedLightning：

Valve, in my opinion, lately has become a huge pushover, who just limits and abuses its users in light of competition. I'm sure they are just cowering in a corner not wanting to fight the likes of Nvidia..

I still wonder whats *next*.. the next big Valve thing.. and I doubt it will be fighting with NVIDIA..

More likely fighting with us.. a one sided battle where we only speak.

Well you onlty speak because thats all you're willing to do.

Besides why should Valve fight. WHat does it gain from this? NOthing. WHat does it lose? Nothng. Thios is between nVidia and the publishers. Valve literally has no place in the fight.

Bottom line is. NvIdia wants to stream a publisher's game. THeyy have to talk to the publishers. There's a reason nVidia immediately removes games from their service upon request. Because they know the legal rights the publishers have.

[Uueerdo]

引用自 brian9824：

引用自 Uueerdo：

Exactly, cafes only have to pay for the commercial license for Steam if their customers can only play the games that they (the customers) already own. They only need to buy commercial game licenses for games they want to offer their customers without requiring those customers to have their own licenses. This is effectively publishers wanting Geforce Now to pay for commercial game licenses to let their customers play the games for which they already have licenses.

...and since Valve is not raising issues with Geforce Now, I would presume they have already worked out some sort of "cafe" license.

Again thats false, its the same principle, but the implementation is different which is why its murkier. Especially as its been pointed out lots of EULA's have terms in them regarding not allowing the games to be played on VM's or streamed. The steam cafe is just the closest analogy there is right now, but it shows how you can't just comercially offer people access to steam accounts (even their own) without going thru special steps. There is not a license steam offers to support what they do.

No one is talking about the commercial licenses that internet cafe's can purchase if they choose. That is completely different then the steam cafe licesne and is not related at all.

I do have to wonder what would happen if a gaming cafe, with a physical location, with cubicles for players started providing remote access to their cubicles. Then moved the machines from the cubicles into a back room, then eliminated the cubicles, then moved the machines to a server room.

[Brian9824]

引用自 RedLightning：

Valve, in my opinion, lately has become a huge pushover, who just limits and abuses its users in light of competition. I'm sure they are just cowering in a corner not wanting to fight the likes of Nvidia

That makes absoluately no sense. How is NOT trying to stop nVidia from offering this service in any way limiting customers or abusing them?

If anything if they tried to prevent it people would accuse valve of limiting and abusing their customers just like the OP and others have accused game developers of by pulling their games from it.

Valve is actually siding with the customer by not trying to stop it in a sense, the exact opposite of what you claim. It makes far more sense for them to stay out of it as its not effecting their bottom line at all and they can avoid pissing off publishers by siding with it, or users by siding against it.

[Tito Shivan]

引用自 brian9824：

Basically many dev's were fine with it while it was in beta and it was free. Games were only pulled after they started CHARGING, with no notice to the developers.

It's not a small factor developers going against someone profiting fron their IP without a deal.
Not pursuing IP protection might open a road for widespread usage of the license for profit.

Kind of why developers pursue modders monetising game mods.

引用自 RedLightning：

What I find funny in all this.. NVIDIA stands to undermine their own video card business by renting game streaming to crap computers.

Just shifting their business model. From manufacturer to a middleware business.
And when you own the hardware your games run from you can offer specialised solutions to developers.

Imagine GeforceNow exclusive tech offered to devs.

[cSg|mc-Hotsauce]

Now, how does this help devs troubleshoot issues with anything related to hardware/software when using GFN? Imagine them asking for info on the issue and you state, I have the tier that includes RTX.

I can see them not wanting provide support for it as well.

[saschaschwarz]

引用自 cSg|mc-Hotsauce：

Now, how does this help devs troubleshoot issues with anything related to hardware/software when using GFN? Imagine them asking for info on the issue and you state, I have the tier that includes RTX.

I can see them not wanting provide support for it as well.

:qr:

So you think supporting every variation of PC hardware from various vendors that most user put together themself, not to speak of the problems with the drivers and other software on you system is easier to support as a standard HW/SW platform in the cloud?
Yeah, that is why many companies are willing to switch to desktop cloud solutions, because it is such a pain to support.

[saschaschwarz]

For those who have the same feelings about the publishers that pull the games from Geforce Now.

I will remove every game from those publishers from my steam account and sell it to someone else. I cannot play those that require a Windows anyway.
And every game I sell is another game the publishers don´t sell to someone else.
And of course I will not buy any new game from them.
That is my way to say F U to those publishers.

My actions might not have a huge impact, but if more will follow, that might change.

[rawWwRrr]

引用自 saschaschwarz：

For those who have the same feelings about the publishers that pull the games from Geforce Now.

I will remove every game from those publishers from my steam account and sell it to someone else. I cannot play those that require a Windows anyway.
And every game I sell is another game the publishers don´t sell to someone else.
And of course I will not buy any new game from them.
That is my way to say F U to those publishers.

My actions might not have a huge impact, but if more will follow, that might change.

Uhh.... You can't resell games from your Steam account. So... No impact to anyone.

Here's a better course of action: settle down and let it play out. For all you know the parties involved are about ready to settle on an agreement that repopulates the Now service with games. All this drama over nothing.

[lailaamell]

引用自 saschaschwarz：

For those who have the same feelings about the publishers that pull the games from Geforce Now.

I will remove every game from those publishers from my steam account and sell it to someone else. I cannot play those that require a Windows anyway.
And every game I sell is another game the publishers don´t sell to someone else.
And of course I will not buy any new game from them.
That is my way to say F U to those publishers.

My actions might not have a huge impact, but if more will follow, that might change.

Or maybe get a pc

[Nx Machina]

引用自 saschaschwarz：

For those who have the same feelings about the publishers that pull the games from Geforce Now.

I will remove every game from those publishers from my steam account and sell it to someone else. I cannot play those that require a Windows anyway.
And every game I sell is another game the publishers don´t sell to someone else.
And of course I will not buy any new game from them.
That is my way to say F U to those publishers.

My actions might not have a huge impact, but if more will follow, that might change.

When Bethesda exited, GeForce Now general manager Phil Eisler said:

"As we approach a paid service, some publishers may choose to remove games before the trial period ends. Ultimately, they maintain control over their content and decide whether the game you purchase includes streaming on GeForce NOW".

Nvidia gave control to the developers publishers with that statement and removing games from GeForce Now is reinforced by the statement and is NOT a violation of consumer rights.

Developers publishers are free to participate or not and choose the platform/s they want their software to be on.

[Crazy Tiger]

引用自 Kusa：

Nvidia gave control to the developers publishers with that statement and removing games from GeForce Now is reinforced by the statement and is NOT a violation of consumer rights.

Most issues that people complain about have nothing to do with "violating consumer rights". It's usually "it inconveniences me, so I emphasize the issue to make it sound meaningful for others".

[Tito Shivan]

引用自 saschaschwarz：

So you think supporting every variation of PC hardware from various vendors that most user put together themself, not to speak of the problems with the drivers and other software on you system is easier to support as a standard HW/SW platform in the cloud?
Yeah, that is why many companies are willing to switch to desktop cloud solutions, because it is such a pain to support.

You got it wrong.
How's the user going to try troubleshooting a game issue with the developer when the hardware is hosted by a third party?

You know those cases where a payment error has the user bouncing back and fort between Steam, Paypal and its bank with no resolution?

Now it's that but for troubleshooting. How's the user going to get a crash dump, installed drivers, redistributables in the machine to deliver to the developer on a machine they don't have access to?

The user can easily end in a vicious back and forth cycle between the dev support service and Nvidia support.

[saschaschwarz]

引用自 rawWwRrr：

Uhh.... You can't resell games from your Steam account. So... No impact to anyone.

https://gameflip.com/

引用自 Tito Shivan：

Now it's that but for troubleshooting. How's the user going to get a crash dump, installed drivers, redistributables in the machine to deliver to the developer on a machine they don't have access to?

The user can easily end in a vicious back and forth cycle between the dev support service and Nvidia support.

The user will report a problem to the developers or Geforce Now. They can sort it out, provide a solution that works for all other users.
BUT, as Nvidia is providing yo a service, they test the games before they get on the service.

I had an issue with a commercial Software in AWS, checked the knowledge base of the vendor and there was already a solution. Changes the settings and it worked.
It is much less effort to support a standard environment than cobbled together hw from various vendor and software/drivers installed by amateurs. That is why Apple is so successful in the professional market.

[Brian9824]

引用自 saschaschwarz：

引用自 rawWwRrr：

Uhh.... You can't resell games from your Steam account. So... No impact to anyone.

https://gameflip.com/

Have you even read that site? Its for digital items, not games. Steam games are PERMANENTLY tied to your account. There is no way to re-sell them