Refunds for trying out games?

[FredyC]

First of all I am aware that Steam has no legal obligation to refund game after it has been installed. I am definitely grateful this is possible. Although I may have used this option more often lately and got a warning from Steam that refunds are not a method for trying out games.

I am confused. When refunding a game, the listed reasons include "it's not fun" or "game is too difficult". Isn't that rather contradictory? If the game is fun or difficult is subjective matter for sure. Why to list these reasons at all if we are not allowed to evaluate these aspects of game?

I mean it's cool that it's possible at all, but I would love to get some clarification on this. How many games can I "try out" this way before it's considered a "bad behavior"? Will all my refunds be rejected after reaching some threshold? For how long?

It's not like I am doing it on purpose. Game does seem to be fun when I see screenshots/videos and read reviews, but after really getting my hands on it, the experience is different for me.

[Cathulhu]

Refunds do not exist do demo games. You are expected to inform yourself before you buy a game. Still, it can happen that despite all that a game looks fun, but isn't when you play it.
Had that happen myself.

There isn't a set value on when Valve acts due to refund abuse as it is based on how many games you've bought recently and how many you kept.
Additionally, you are warned two times. First is a nice warning, second is a very direct warning, third message is a permanent removal of your refund ability.

To avoid abuse of the refund system Valve does not disclose how their algorithm works on when the warnings are triggered.

[Gunnerr]

The warning is like this:
"You have requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you're unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing."

You should get a warning after about 5-6 refund in period of one month.
Honestly I do not know about this : / I made refund in the span of 3 months last year.

[FredyC]

Well, there is very few games that actually offer a demo version these days. I am trying at least watch a letsplay before bying. In some cases it's enough to decide, but for some complex game when there is a lot of decision making and I know I would have taken different route, it's not enough.

I wonder why is it even considered an abuse? Playing game for 2 hours is rarely enough to be near of finishing it or really enjoying it. Isn't it kinda better toward game authors to openly allow this way of demonstrating game? The other option is pirating the game which nobody likes for sure.

I checked and I got that warning 4 times in a last week. But I also bought and kept 5 other games in that week. The warning I got in all instances is like the following. Is it the "very direct" variant or "nice warning"? :)

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. Please keep in mind that refunds are not a method for trying out games. If we think the refund system is being misused we’ll decline to grant future refunds.

[Washell]

There's a difference in the amount of refunds you do for a game not being fun when you read reviews, watch streams and lets plays, and maybe play a game at a friend (or through his library) or just buying a game because it caught your eye on the store page.

The latter will lead to too many refunds, which aren't free to Valve when banks and credit cards get involved.

[FredyC]

Oh, so when using PayPal and refunding back it, Valve has to pay something for that? If that's the case then I understand the "abuse" part :) Would that be different if I would be refunding to Steam wallet?

[Zekiran]

Originally posted by FredyC:

Oh, so when using PayPal and refunding back it, Valve has to pay something for that? If that's the case then I understand the "abuse" part :) Would that be different if I would be refunding to Steam wallet?

All refunds that you do go toward that total and the warning.

The refund system is not intended for demoing games.

[FredyC]

Originally posted by Zekiran:

All refunds that you do go toward that total and the warning.

The refund system is not intended for demoing games.

So why to even allow for "is not fun" refund if it's not intended? If there is no money loss for anyone, the game author will get a game demo for free and there will be less pirated copies. It sounds to me like the refund system is rather helpful so it's weird why to limit it and call it abuse.

[akhv]

Originally posted by FredyC:

Originally posted by Zekiran:

All refunds that you do go toward that total and the warning.

The refund system is not intended for demoing games.

So why to even allow for "is not fun" refund if it's not intended? If there is no money loss for anyone, the game author will get a game demo for free and there will be less pirated copies. It sounds to me like the refund system is rather helpful so it's weird why to limit it and call it abuse.

This is shady practice of Steam deliberately contradicting itself

[FredyC]

Ok, so does anyone know how the "last warning" before getting permanent block for refunds look like? I don't want to "abuse" anything, but getting suck a block would be real bummer.

[MOSLEY]

Originally posted by akhv:

Originally posted by FredyC:

So why to even allow for "is not fun" refund if it's not intended? If there is no money loss for anyone, the game author will get a game demo for free and there will be less pirated copies. It sounds to me like the refund system is rather helpful so it's weird why to limit it and call it abuse.

This is shady practice of Steam deliberately contradicting itself

You're the kind of guy who walks into a cafe and eats the entire tray of free samples then leaves, aren't you?

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by FredyC:

Ok, so does anyone know how the "last warning" before getting permanent block for refunds look like? I don't want to "abuse" anything, but getting suck a block would be real bummer.

Change your behaviour after the first warning instead of pretending nothing happened until the "last warning".

[FredyC]

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Originally posted by FredyC:

Ok, so does anyone know how the "last warning" before getting permanent block for refunds look like? I don't want to "abuse" anything, but getting suck a block would be real bummer.

Change your behaviour after the first warning instead of pretending nothing happened until the "last warning".

Change behavior? I don't feel like I would be doing anything wrong. I am not bying games out of whim just to try out. I do my research and only when it seems game might be interesting, I do buy it. But sometimes research fails and experience is not what I have expected. And sometimes that can be several games in a week because I am super bored and have a lot of free time :)

I doubt the Steam and game authors would be more happy if I would be pirating those games.

[ReBoot]

Originally posted by FredyC:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Change your behaviour after the first warning instead of pretending nothing happened until the "last warning".

Change behavior? I don't feel like I would be doing anything wrong. I am not bying games out of whim just to try out. I do my research and only when it seems game might be interesting, I do buy it. But sometimes research fails and experience is not what I have expected. And sometimes that can be several games in a week because I am super bored and have a lot of free time :)

I doubt the Steam and game authors would be more happy if I would be pirating those games.

I also do my research, also buy games in bulk but I've never seen such a warning. My point is, you can do what you do and still get no warnings. Learning patterns helps. I for example learned that artsy indie platformers are generally bullshittingly hard. Not all of them, but the chance is high.

[Crazy Tiger]

Originally posted by FredyC:

Originally posted by Zekiran:

All refunds that you do go toward that total and the warning.

The refund system is not intended for demoing games.

So why to even allow for "is not fun" refund if it's not intended? If there is no money loss for anyone, the game author will get a game demo for free and there will be less pirated copies. It sounds to me like the refund system is rather helpful so it's weird why to limit it and call it abuse.

It's allowed because 1) any reason is both good and irrelevant in the automatic part of the refunds (2 hours/2weeks) and 2) everybody can have the occassion that they buy something that isn't fun.
there is, however, a difference between buying 20 games and refunding 1 or buying 20 games and refunding 15 (as example). In the case of the latter, one is abusing the privilege of the refund.

Originally posted by FredyC:

Originally posted by ReBoot:

Change your behaviour after the first warning instead of pretending nothing happened until the "last warning".

Change behavior? I don't feel like I would be doing anything wrong. I am not bying games out of whim just to try out. I do my research and only when it seems game might be interesting, I do buy it. But sometimes research fails and experience is not what I have expected. And sometimes that can be several games in a week because I am super bored and have a lot of free time :)

I doubt the Steam and game authors would be more happy if I would be pirating those games.

If it happens regularly that games aren't what you expected and you want to refund them, it's still advised to revise your researching methods or to buy less games.

As said, refunds are not demos. And just because you can give the reason "I don't like it", doesn't mean it's there for trying out games.

[Kargor]

Also, this is a user forum. You can insist that "I don't like it" means "I can use this as a replacement for demos" as much as you want; Steam will just stop letting you refund eventually and that's it.