Resale of used games.

[senillosa]

I've had the idea for a long time now to be published one day on steam, this is only an idea, no decision has been taken, I'm currently published on another platform that lends itself better to my development style, this said I'm worried about the resale of used games possible in some countries like France.
Being published on steam is something that needs to be thought about, I think that this kind of scam, theft, must be a big part of the game.

What protections are in place or will be in place by steam to protect developers from this kind of evil country.

It's already difficult enough today for studios to survive for independent developers it's even more difficult, but when we see that some countries are suing steam for the right to steal from developers by selling a product that doesn't belong to them I just get indignant, is what steam plans to propose in the future for developers published on steam to block the sale of their games in France and in other countries that propose to their users to steal from developers?

Does the lawsuit continue, does Steam continue to fight against its raptors to protect the developers?

[Cathulhu]

The french ruling has no effect on Steam, not even in France, as french law cannot overrule EU law.
In EU law the reselling of licenses is already covered and Valve is completely compliant with EU law.

It would require France escalating the issue to the EU to make a new regulation which all EU members would have to be compliant with in their own local laws.

[Start_Running]

senillosa lähetti viestin:

I've had the idea for a long time now to be published one day on steam, this is only an idea, no decision has been taken, I'm currently published on another platform that lends itself better to my development style, this said I'm worried about the resale of used games possible in some countries like France.

They will enable you to create region locks on your game for the region of F. You will be able to make your games unavailable for purchase or activation in that region. Sure they can probably use VPNM to buy from the non-france store and activate non-ffrance keys but then those games are outside the provision of french law. It'd be the equivalent of someone traveling to another country and buying an item and expecting their laws to be in effect. Secondly, that law will likely not go anywhere.

[honx]

if one buys a game, one should have the right to resale the game if not needed anymore. just like selling a used car. this right should be available for all goods, including digital goods!

[Radene]

Cathulhu lähetti viestin:

The french ruling has no effect on Steam, not even in France, as french law cannot overrule EU law.
In EU law the reselling of licenses is already covered and Valve is completely compliant with EU law.

That. Is. NOT. How. It. Works.

It would require France escalating the issue to the EU to make a new regulation which all EU members would have to be compliant with in their own local laws.

No. It is the opposite. It would require France to get sued before EU court in order to invalidate the ruling of French courts, IF the EU court finds the French ruling to be non-compliant.

[Realigo Actual]

It's a good thing that games are so different and special and not like a car, pair of shoes, skis, rake, vacuum cleaner, motorcycle.

I understand that it's very different for indie developer than a AAA publisher, but let's stop short of branding the resellers thieves, yes?

[Wolf Knight]

honx lähetti viestin:

if one buys a game, one should have the right to resale the game if not needed anymore. just like selling a used car. this right should be available for all goods, including digital goods!

if you want to resell your games, find an online service that lets you resell them. the game dev's get a cut of anything that is sold on steam, epic, etc. one website did try this, they stopped because it didnt work out the way they thought it would.

[reg1s7]

honx lähetti viestin:

if one buys a game, one should have the right to resale the game if not needed anymore. just like selling a used car. this right should be available for all goods, including digital goods!

The software is LICENSED to you, not SOLD. You don't have absolute right for it.

[nullable]

Radene lähetti viestin:

Cathulhu lähetti viestin:

The french ruling has no effect on Steam, not even in France, as french law cannot overrule EU law.
In EU law the reselling of licenses is already covered and Valve is completely compliant with EU law.

That. Is. NOT. How. It. Works.

It would require France escalating the issue to the EU to make a new regulation which all EU members would have to be compliant with in their own local laws.

No. It is the opposite. It would require France to get sued before EU court in order to invalidate the ruling of French courts, IF the EU court finds the French ruling to be non-compliant.

Which it would.

[Radene]

Brockenstein lähetti viestin:

Radene lähetti viestin:

That. Is. NOT. How. It. Works.



No. It is the opposite. It would require France to get sued before EU court in order to invalidate the ruling of French courts, IF the EU court finds the French ruling to be non-compliant.

Which it would.

We don't know that. And what "would" is irrelevant, all that matters is what "is". These laws are there to protect the customer, not the business. So giving the customer more freedom than mandated is non-compliance?

[Kargor]

So far, we haven't seen/heard much about that France thingy, so chances are it doesn't affect Steam -- regardless of the judicial details leading to that.

There could be legal reasons, or simply a misunderstanding. As an example, German users have often claimed that they must be able to return games due to how mail order businesses are required to do refunds. What those people missed, however, was an exception that ("hidden" in law-language) added an exception for online services and some other businesses (like selling a movie, to prevent watching and returning it).

Laws tend to be more complicated than a newspaper headline, and court rulings need to be understood.

[nullable]

Radene lähetti viestin:

Brockenstein lähetti viestin:

Which it would.

We don't know that. And what "would" is irrelevant, all that matters is what "is". These laws are there to protect the customer, not the business. So giving the customer more freedom than mandated is non-compliance?

Given what's at stake, there's no way Valve, or a group of publishers, don't challenge the law in court until all options are exhausted. It's not hard to predict the inevitable. I know you're set to 100% contrary because everyone is arguing with you, try not to let that blind you when something is actually pretty obvious.

It's also going to be a decade before this is sorted out anyway...

[Radene]

Brockenstein lähetti viestin:

Radene lähetti viestin:

We don't know that. And what "would" is irrelevant, all that matters is what "is". These laws are there to protect the customer, not the business. So giving the customer more freedom than mandated is non-compliance?

Given what's at stake, there's no way Valve, or a group of publishers, don't challenge the law in court until all options are exhausted. It's not hard to predict the inevitable. I know you're set to 100% contrary because everyone is arguing with you, try not to let that blind you when something is actually pretty obvious.

It's also going to be a decade before this is sorted out anyway...

Quit playing armchar psychologist on me to discredit me. That just shows that all your talk about what's obvious and inevitable is nothing more than hot air. "Obvious" things don't take a decade to get sorted.

You're also being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[nullable]

Radene lähetti viestin:

Quit playing armchar psychologist on me to discredit me. That just shows that all your talk about what's obvious and inevitable is nothing more than hot air. "Obvious" things don't take a decade to get sorted.

You're also being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Is France known for it's extremely speedy legal system? Is the EU? Like I said, you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. You don't need to argue with everything, and clearly there's some limits to your expertise even though you've clearly convinced yourself you're the only one who's got it sorted out.

Court cases are slow, especially when going through multiple levels of courts. A law fundamentally changing the business of (PC) gaming is going to be challenged until there's nowhere left to go, whether you can see that or not. So yeah, ten years... it's a guess. But even if I'm wrong it ain't gonna be ten days, ten weeks, or ten months from now, it will be years though regardless.

[Radene]

Brockenstein lähetti viestin:

Radene lähetti viestin:

Quit playing armchar psychologist on me to discredit me. That just shows that all your talk about what's obvious and inevitable is nothing more than hot air. "Obvious" things don't take a decade to get sorted.

You're also being an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

Is France known for it's extremely speedy legal system? Is the EU? Like I said, you're just being contrary for the sake of being contrary. You don't need to argue with everything, and clearly there's some limits to your expertise even though you've clearly convinced yourself you're the only one who's got it sorted out.

Maybe you should stop projecting so hard. You're the only one who claims to know for sure what will "inevitably happen" as if there is no limit to your expertise.

Of course this is going to take at least half a decade, because, you guessed it, it's not obvious, it's not an open-and-shut case, and it could go every which way.

[nullable]

Radene lähetti viestin:

Maybe you should stop projecting so hard. You're the only one who claims to know for sure what will "inevitably happen" as if there is no limit to your expertise.

Of course this is going to take at least half a decade, because, you guessed it, it's not obvious, it's not an open-and-shut case, and it could go every which way.

Still just being contrary just to be contrary. You can't dismiss everything I said and then agree with me without your behavior also being obvious. It's just too bad you're not as complicated and inscrutable as you like you imagine. My ego is not so fragile, so have at it.