Steam bans VN without reasons?

[Satsujinki]

Recently I was surfing on the reddit and noticed Hello Goodbye was gone. So I had to check this out on the steam and it was recently gone. I was like, wtf? Aren't they suppose to follow their policy when they're not taste police?

And the other devs still hasn't gotten reply from Valve and nothing much. So what the hell is going on here?

I'm not sure why did employee kept banning the VN games without starting the fire and gotten away with it.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Teaspoon -Not The Taste Police:

Whoa! The censorship apologists and professional goalpost movers are definitely out in force.

Anyways, here's an ongoing list of games that the two rogue employees have decided to taste police: https://pastebin.com/RmNgxcar

I'd also encourage people to email Gaben and (politely) make your voice heard. Keep it short and simple: https://www.valvesoftware.com/it/contact?contact-person=Gabe%20Newell

So you'd rather believe its two rogue employees acting somehow without the knowledge of anyone else..rather than those being the two guys whose job it is to send out the notices?

Publicado originalmente por Malamasala:

How clueless can you be? It is beyond obvious you have never bought a single Japanese visual novel ever, and tried to patch it.

1. Japanese developers set different prices on all-ages and adult version. This happens in 90% of the cases. That already disqualifies 90% of the games from being able to be the "content is already in game" solution.

So you really think they'd go with two seperate games or just have one game that gets installed with a diferent switch in an ini file or different sprite pack?

In short, if you can prove me wrong with a Japanese VN that already contains all the adult content, I'd be as surprised as if pigs were flying.

Season of Sakura if I remember correctly.

It really is strange how people are quick to believe one side of a narrative unquestioningly. In every case where a VCN or such was removed frojm steam it's turned out that the dev had something that was definately not kosher.. usually pedophillia. and no just saying the character is really 18 doesn't make it any less pedophilia.

The dev likely knows what they did wrong but doesn't want to say because it'd make them look like creeps.

[Malamasala]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Season of Sakura if I remember correctly.

It really is strange how people are quick to believe one side of a narrative unquestioningly. In every case where a VCN or such was removed frojm steam it's turned out that the dev had something that was definately not kosher.. usually pedophillia. and no just saying the character is really 18 doesn't make it any less pedophilia.

The dev likely knows what they did wrong but doesn't want to say because it'd make them look like creeps.

The question was a game on Steam with adult content hidden behind a configuration file. Answering a 90s adult game sold on JAST does not quite cut it. You could have gone with Kindred Spirits and only being wrong on the patch part, as it does not require a patch.

And writing that they are 18 actually matters. You can sell tons of school girls having sex visual novels even in Canada and Australia, if you put that text on your game. The reason is because they actually do not care about age at all. Nobody cares about age of fictional characters.

What few people realize, is that it is size that matters. Is the person short? Then it is problematic because all children are identified by being short. You can't have a short adult, because that is unrealistic. And you need realism when you deal with fiction. That is why most people react about 6 or 12 year old girls in games... because their shortness trigger them. They never complain about the obvious 15 year old girls running around naked. Because someone said they were 18.

[Winged One]

okay, a few things here..

1) when it comes to sexual content (especially involving minors), more than just outright sex or nudity is considered.. it also takes writing, certain visual poses, or dialogue of an overly sexual nature into account..

2) the idea that it is "2 rogue employees" is downright hilarious.. you realize how these companies work right? nothing at a corporation at Valves level goes undocumented, an employee can not go in and do whatever they want in a database because records show a unique paper trail to the given user (and I can't say or not if Valve is such a company, but many large corporations have limited functionality keyloggers on employees PC's to combat leaks and internal sabotage)..

Publicado originalmente por Malamasala:

And writing that they are 18 actually matters. You can sell tons of school girls having sex visual novels even in Canada and Australia, if you put that text on your game. The reason is because they actually do not care about age at all. Nobody cares about age of fictional characters.

actually you can't as its not that simple.

the Criminal Code of Canada's laws on sexual crimes in regards to pornographic content depicting minors clearly states that if the animated character is clearly beyond any reasonable doubt meant to depict a minor visually, it is to be considered a minor regardless of what age the author claims they are when it comes to a court of law.. there have been convictions for people having some animated pornographic content depicting minors and even trying to bring certain doujinshi into the country..

see, there is a difference between "this character could be 16, could be 19" and "this character is clearly meant to visually represent an individual under the age of 13".

[[TKD] Teaspoon]

lol Imagine thinking all of Valve gets together for group meetings every time they decide to remove something from the store.

[Winged One]

Publicado originalmente por Teaspoon -Not The Taste Police:

lol Imagine thinking all of Valve gets together for group meetings every time they decide to remove something from the store.

nobody said it was the entire company, but unless it was Gabe himself (which is unlikely given his role in the company atm) no single staff member would have the ability to just "remove what they don't like".. there is a paper trail, it would be no different than a bank teller randomly siphoning peoples savings accounts to their own (as it, it would get caught damn fast)..


See in the business and corporate worlds, ceasing doing business with another company is not something that is taken lightly.. and a random employee taking it upon themself to make that decision? immediate termination of contract and a blackspot that would follow them on every interview afterwards their entire life..



if you think an Employee can go in and start just making whatever changes they want to a corporate sales database, your knowledge of businesses and corporations clearly doesn't go that far..

[Nightlight]

Publicado originalmente por theseraph1:

the Criminal Code of Canada's laws on sexual crimes in regards to pornographic content depicting minors clearly states that if the animated character is clearly beyond any reasonable doubt meant to depict a minor visually, it is to be considered a minor regardless of what age the author claims they are when it comes to a court of law.. there have been convictions for people having some animated pornographic content depicting minors and even trying to bring certain doujinshi into the country.

So wait, the law that is responsible for these games being removed is going by what is considered a minor, not by the age of consent? The age in which someone is no longer a minor and the age of consent are two different things. For example, in Japan a minor is someone under the age of 20, however the age of consent is 13.
Since the law is about sexual crimes, shouldn't they be going by the age of consent instead?

I'm not well versed in these types of laws, so I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Malamasala:

The question was a game on Steam with adult content hidden behind a configuration file. Answering a 90s adult game sold on JAST does not quite cut it. You could have gone with Kindred Spirits and only being wrong on the patch part, as it does not require a patch.

I've never played Kindred spirits but your statement was that developers don't hide the uncensored stuff in the censored version.. Season of Sakura was one game I know illustrated a case where they did.

And writing that they are 18 actually matters. You can sell tons of school girls having sex visual novels even in Canada and Australia, if you put that text on your game. The reason is because they actually do not care about age at all. Nobody cares about age of fictional characters.

They kinda do. When the character looks undeniably prepubescent.. yeah you show that to the right authorities, or the right church group, and they will care quite quickly. Lots of eyes are on Steam and they have to dance the laws of not just the US and Canada, but many other regions that do have slightly tighter laws.

You can't have a short adult, because that is unrealistic.

Que Quoi?

And you need realism when you deal with fiction. That is why most people react about 6 or 12 year old girls in games... because their shortness trigger them. They never complain about the obvious 15 year old girls running around naked. Because someone said they were 18.

A girl that could pass as 18 is one thing, and the artstyle of anime tends to make it rather hard to tell the difference.

Point is, if you're going to toe the line.. be ready to lose a toe.

Publicado originalmente por theseraph1:

See in the business and corporate worlds, ceasing doing business with another company is not something that is taken lightly.. and a random employee taking it upon themself to make that decision? immediate termination of contract and a blackspot that would follow them on every interview afterwards their entire life..

Yeah I'm starting to think people think the way businesses and corps are protrayed in YA fiction and movies is some how real.

if you think an Employee can go in and start just making whatever changes they want to a corporate sales database, your knowledge of businesses and corporations clearly doesn't go that far..

But that's what fits the narrative they wish to believe because actually considering the real dynamics and operations of companies might lead one to realize they are no different than any other organization of people and that would ruin their preconceived narrative.

[Start_Running]

Publicado originalmente por Nightlight:

So wait, the law that is responsible for these games being removed is going by what is considered a minor, not by the age of consent? The age in which someone is no longer a minor and the age of consent are two different things. For example, in Japan a minor is someone under the age of 20, however the age of consent is 13.
Since the law is about sexual crimes, shouldn't they be going by the age of consent instead?

Japan is rather special in that yes the age of consent is technically 13 but it ONLY applies where both parties are 13 or older and the older party must be under 18, or no more than 3 years older than the younger.

And yeah although that is the age of consent it is generally frowned upon.

[Winged One]

Publicado originalmente por Nightlight:

Publicado originalmente por theseraph1:

the Criminal Code of Canada's laws on sexual crimes in regards to pornographic content depicting minors clearly states that if the animated character is clearly beyond any reasonable doubt meant to depict a minor visually, it is to be considered a minor regardless of what age the author claims they are when it comes to a court of law.. there have been convictions for people having some animated pornographic content depicting minors and even trying to bring certain doujinshi into the country.

So wait, the law that is responsible for these games being removed is going by what is considered a minor, not by the age of consent? The age in which someone is no longer a minor and the age of consent are two different things. For example, in Japan a minor is someone under the age of 20, however the age of consent is 13.
Since the law is about sexual crimes, shouldn't they be going by the age of consent instead?

I'm not well versed in these types of laws, so I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

age of consent laws go far further than "you are this age, you can have sex".. prior to age of majority, age of consent only applies if your partner is within a certian age range compared to your own (usually 1 to 2 years) which is true even in Japan.. (most also have a subsection also regarding mental age, meaning the individual also has to have the properly developed mental capacity of an individual of that age)


In the case of animated images, since no real age can be given the law in many countries say that if it is beyond any reasonable doubt meant to depict a minor it is to be considered a minor regardless of the artists statement on the age due to the fact age can be lied about in an attempt to mask that the content falls far to closely to the edge of the law (heck, even the IRL porn industry has fabricated fake indentities including identification for actors solely to get around the law preventing them from being featured)..


depending on the visual representation of the character "beyond any reasonable doubt" is either upheld or not.. a character looking around the age of 16 could possibly be 18 or 19 with just a less developed body, but a character with the physical body of someone under the age of 13 could not reasonably be seen as an individual of that age by any objective party..

[Sleepy Yoshi]

Japans laws surrounding 'age of consent' are actually more stringent than those in the West. People tend to look at the penal code (which is 13) and completely disregard the laws within a given prefecture or municipality.

[Winged One]

Publicado originalmente por Sleepy Yoshi:

Japans laws surrounding 'age of consent' are actually more stringent than those in the West. People tend to look at the penal code (which is 13) and completely disregard the laws within a given prefecture or municipality.

true, and historically that has gotten some tourists into serious legal trouble when traveling there.

[secuda]

Lol do people actually belive in "rouge employe"? As in having as much freedom as mr Gaben himself in removing games at will? HA HA!

[Winged One]

Publicado originalmente por secuda:

Lol do people actually belive in "rouge employe"? As in having as much freedom as mr Gaben himself in removing games at will? HA HA!

ehh, Developer makes something up to save face when they did something they really weren't supposed to, people who wanted to buy the game take their word for it rather than think about whether it makes sense and then the echo effect kicks in.. been happening for decades

[Nightlight]

Publicado originalmente por Start_Running:

Publicado originalmente por Nightlight:

So wait, the law that is responsible for these games being removed is going by what is considered a minor, not by the age of consent? The age in which someone is no longer a minor and the age of consent are two different things. For example, in Japan a minor is someone under the age of 20, however the age of consent is 13.
Since the law is about sexual crimes, shouldn't they be going by the age of consent instead?

Japan is rather special in that yes the age of consent is technically 13 but it ONLY applies where both parties are 13 or older and the older party must be under 18, or no more than 3 years older than the younger.

And yeah although that is the age of consent it is generally frowned upon.

Publicado originalmente por theseraph1:

Publicado originalmente por Nightlight:

So wait, the law that is responsible for these games being removed is going by what is considered a minor, not by the age of consent? The age in which someone is no longer a minor and the age of consent are two different things. For example, in Japan a minor is someone under the age of 20, however the age of consent is 13.
Since the law is about sexual crimes, shouldn't they be going by the age of consent instead?

I'm not well versed in these types of laws, so I'm asking out of genuine curiosity.

age of consent laws go far further than "you are this age, you can have sex".. prior to age of majority, age of consent only applies if your partner is within a certian age range compared to your own (usually 1 to 2 years) which is true even in Japan.. (most also have a subsection also regarding mental age, meaning the individual also has to have the properly developed mental capacity of an individual of that age)


In the case of animated images, since no real age can be given the law in many countries say that if it is beyond any reasonable doubt meant to depict a minor it is to be considered a minor regardless of the artists statement on the age due to the fact age can be lied about in an attempt to mask that the content falls far to closely to the edge of the law (heck, even the IRL porn industry has fabricated fake indentities including identification for actors solely to get around the law preventing them from being featured)..


depending on the visual representation of the character "beyond any reasonable doubt" is either upheld or not.. a character looking around the age of 16 could possibly be 18 or 19 with just a less developed body, but a character with the physical body of someone under the age of 13 could not reasonably be seen as an individual of that age by any objective party..

Ah, ok, that makes sense. Thank you for explaining, guys.

[Winged One]

not a problem, glad we were able to clear it up for you