Windows XP wanders messages

[Torquato de Rezende]

All of my Joys have been bought for Windows XP functionality, some are not even installed yet! My interests as to Windows 10 are merely ignorant of your need in my Lap Top, other than games, especially for my lap top what I do with this nosy and scruffy porno, useful!

Windows 10 is a porcry invasion of a great and safe operating system!

Why should I accept or be required to do so regarding the warning and end of support for the games purchased for my Windows XP on Steam running on my computer? What is the benefit of this, and what is the logic of doing so, other than Microsoft's and its subsidiaries' legal confusion over their property, as well as their judgement as to other monopoly companies?

Why I have to accept it?

[SqueakyTweaky]

Originalmente postado por RedLightning:

I absolutely love how people fein 'security' with windows XP ..

10 is no better..

I hope and you better hope you never end up in a hospidal that uses still xp software on their machines in the operation hall and other equipments.

Not long ago there was a couple of incidents where they got hacked and people who where dying and other ill people where hooked to these machines and computers where controlled by cyber criminals.
The hospidal ended up paying the huge ransom to avoid people getting killed by the outdated software.

[Winged One]

Originalmente postado por RedLightning:

I absolutely love how people fein 'security' with windows XP ..

10 is no better..

it is actually, XP hasn't recieved security updates since April of 2014, meaning security holes are no longer patched out.. heck, there was an issue last summer with millions of dollars worth of damage being done as certain cities (mostly in Asian nations if memory serves) were still using XP to run their public transit systems and a few hospitals, and there was an attack specifically designed to take advantage of a XP specific security flaw that was known but wasn't patched out as it had reached end of life..


is Windows 10 the greatest OS of all time? no, far from it.. is it more secure than XP? yes, as security holes are still being patched for it.. heck, even major anti-virus providers are dropping XP support, and banks are black listing it and vista from online banking..

now Embedded Standard 2009 is technically based off of Windows XP (or more specifcally, based off of Embedded XP which was in itself based off XP), and its support ends next year I believe (if I am remembering my dates correctly).. but no one is running an embedded OS on their home computer, its mainly for POS Thin Clients and a means of more secure remote access when you don't want to risk the user being able to store confidential files locally

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por Zetikla:

i wish windows would cut internet acces on systems still using operating systems like xp as they are literally a security disaster waiting to happen

Not as much as you think. I mean if you have a decent AV, a competant firewall (bonus if its hardware), and are intelligent enough to avoid malware. XP isn't any more or less secure than anything else.

So lets not let or preconcieved bias as to software vulnerability cloud our judgement. Especially considering the two biggest security holes out there affect Windows 10 as much as they do windows XP.

that aside i just cant understand how ppl cannot grasp that technology evolves, thats how it is

EVolution is change.. not every change is good, not every change is wanted. Id'd much rather spend 12 hours a day using an os that I actually like than one I tolerate in the same way one tolerates a flat-mates drumming practice. Yeah I'm sure if I used 10 long enough i could stockholme myself into liking it but that's not the ideal is it?

Alternatively if you are among those ppl despising win 10, may i remind you that one software called Linux that is a thing.

Still needs some work. There's a lot of software I have that doesn't do well with Linux and if you suggest WINE, you are free to be my guest and try running Illustrator CS3 and Premier CS3 through WINE.

Originalmente postado por theseraph1:

it is actually, XP hasn't recieved security updates since April of 2014, meaning security holes are no longer patched out..

That depends on where you are actually. Windows XP has actually been receiving regular updates in EU states and everyone got an update for that ransomeware bug some months back.

heck, there was an issue last summer with millions of dollars worth of damage being done as certain cities (mostly in Asian nations if memory serves) were still using XP to run their public transit systems and a few hospitals, and there was an attack specifically designed to take advantage of a XP specific security flaw that was known but wasn't patched out as it had reached end of life..

And if they were using something else it would have been an attack designed to target the security holes that has aswell. Thats how attacks work. Attackers will genrally be targetting the holes in whatever is being used byt their target. All OSes have holes so all are vulnerable sure 10 gets patches but if the hole goes un discovered it will not be patched until there's a major exploit. Two of the more problematic security holes in m,odern systems actually exploit the hardware not the software weaknesses so will affect just about any system equally.

Hence why I say. If you have a decent HW fireall and a decent AV you more or less have have less to worry about. My XP system contains less malware than my friends Windows 10 system. Which is to say. None.

[SterlingStar]

Windows 10 Secure..... I loled on that one.

This thread in a nutshell:
I know lets throw keywords about PCs in the air to think I know what I am talking about. XP has security issues..... yea that'll work. Insert story about xp vulnerabilities (HERE). Games need updates and stuff yea! Now state Windows 10 is great. Super Secure. It gets updates still. Those matter. (lets ignore the fact SPYING AND DATA COLLECTION IS BUILT IN!)

Any OS and system can be secured to a reasonable extent using common sense and lil bit of know how. Look up toolwiz Time Freeze and the like. Any OS can be exploited. It is a two way street. One road may have a few extra potholes so to speak, but it is still a road.

The real reason XP isnt going to be supported is b/c system requirements (mostly RAM) to run steam alone are about to go through the roof with the addition of this screwed up new chat UI. Steam doesnt care if you are secure, thats your issue. They do care if you can actually use their software and thats why the push to a new OS, your gonna need a new system as things that run on XP are old and more than likely outdated and cannot keep up with the new requirements.

[Winged One]

no one is saying Windows 10 is "great", it has its issues just as every OS ever made does (shall I go indepth about windows ME's initial memory leak and software compatibility issues?)..


but if you somehow think Windows 10 is not more secure than XP, you are either fooling yourself or are in a state of denial..


heck, I have a challenge for anyone making that absurd claim.. go to either of the internets two big tech boards (tomshardware, or bleepingcomputer) and ask there, they will tell you the same thing..

I work for a local tech firm who handles network security and end user support for businesses all across the province, if I were to make an absurd statement like XP is more secure than 10 I would lose my job.. there is a reason we dropped support for it last year, and now charge double labour for Vista.

heck, even setting up a watchguard firebox (awesome tech by the way, look em up) won't change the fact that due to XP not being supported there are countless threats designed to take advantage of the security holes and attack your system..

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

And if they were using something else it would have been an attack designed to target the security holes that has aswell. Thats how attacks work. Attackers will genrally be targetting the holes in whatever is being used byt their target. All OSes have holes so all are vulnerable sure 10 gets patches but if the hole goes un discovered it will not be patched until there's a major exploit. Two of the more problematic security holes in m,odern systems actually exploit the hardware not the software weaknesses so will affect just about any system equally.

Hence why I say. If you have a decent HW fireall and a decent AV you more or less have have less to worry about. My XP system contains less malware than my friends Windows 10 system. Which is to say. None.

you are ingoring the fault here.. when a hole is found on a supported OS, its patched out. when a hole is found on an unsupported OS it remains there indeffinitely..


as for the security holes you are refering to, Meltdown & Spectre? while it is a concern, Intel has been pushing out microcode patches to combat the issue.. the first of which had caused a few big performance hits, but that performance hit has since been resolved.. there was also a minor change in Windows 10 Update 1803 (initially called the Spring Creators, later renamed the April 2018 update) designed to combat the risk..




Like I said though, you don't have to take my word for it. below you will find links to two of the biggest IT discussion boards on the internet (in the case of Tomshardware, the core user base is seasoned industry Experts).. alternatively, you can walk into the front door of any IT firm of service center and have them explain the same thing

if you are so sure that W10 is not significantly more secure than XP, I challenge you to make a post on them about the issue. prove just how confident you are on that.


http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/

https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/forums/

[RedLightning]

Originalmente postado por FIREFLY:

Originalmente postado por RedLightning:

I absolutely love how people fein 'security' with windows XP ..

10 is no better..

I hope and you better hope you never end up in a hospidal that uses still xp software on their machines in the operation hall and other equipments.

Not long ago there was a couple of incidents where they got hacked and people who where dying and other ill people where hooked to these machines and computers where controlled by cyber criminals.
The hospidal ended up paying the huge ransom to avoid people getting killed by the outdated software.

Everythings going to the cloud.. then it'll be how 'secure' the cloud is.. so it really matters not.. we allready give up that data no matter what.

At least in the US.

Really secure.

Not to mention the power of a single entity to state weither you can play on your machine or not. Absolute power... now *THAT* is DRM.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por theseraph1:

you are ingoring the fault here.. when a hole is found on a supported OS, its patched out. when a hole is found on an unsupported OS it remains there indeffinitely..

un true. Once knowledge of a fault is out those runniung can actually take their own steps to mitigate or remove damage. The point is, security and safety boils down to the actual competence of the user. A smart user running XP will have less malware on their system than a dumbass using Windows 10.

I've been running XP for years and i'd wager my system has less malware on it than yours.

[Winged One]

not when the hole is a core aspect of how the OS functions.. it doesn't matter how much work you do to a houses main floor when the foundation is leaking..

like I said before, I work in end user service and Network security, the amount of times I have had to play cleanup after someone thought "I am safe on the internet, i'll be fine" alone would be more posts than this entire argument has gone on for (the big one lately has been random people contacting us wanting us to clean up ransomware)..


as for infections, you would be surprised how many infections AV's can't detect on windows XP due to mentioned security flaws, even with a great AV.. when checking an XP machine for malware these days you pop out your XP PC's HDD and plug it into a spare SATA port on a modern OS (10, 8.1, or 7 your pick) and then scan the Drive with a copy of Malwarebytes and ESET (I use endpoint, but Nod32 will do just as good) in the non-afflicted OS..

most infections are made to try and actively hide from the OS and 3rd party Anti-virus's.. by running the scans externally you bypass this as you aren't booting into the afflicted OS.. when doing scans on older OS's this is the proper way to do it..

keep in mind I am not saying your PC automatically is infected, but when running Vista or Older you should be doing scans externally (as you should any highly persistant infection on 7 or newer)

(as for my machines security, I do most of my core browsing on a VM, and do a full reinstall of my OS every 6 months. any truly questionable sites I use a secondary throw away PC for).


but if you are so sure Start, you can take the challenge and show just how confident you are.. go on either of the boards I linked and ask other professionals if you won't take my word for it..





now don't get me wrong, if you want to use XP on your PC I have nothing against that, to each their own as everyone has their own tastes.. every OS has issues, and some a more comfortable with ones than anothers

my stance in most discussions is I don't care what side of an argument someone takes as long as they don't spread misinformation in their argument, and by saying XP is secure when comparing it to a supported OS you are spreading misinformation.. misinformation that can potnetially cause people some serious issues. if a person makes the concious choice to use an unsupported OS they should do so being aware of the risks and concerns, and misinformation is only going to make them oblivious to said risks and concerns.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por theseraph1:

as for infections, you would be surprised how many infections AV's can't detect on windows XP due to mentioned security flaws, even with a great AV.. when checking an XP machine for malware these days you pop out your XP PC's HDD and plug it into a spare SATA port on a modern OS (10, 8.1, or 7 your pick) and then scan the Drive with a copy of Malwarebytes and ESET (I use endpoint, but Nod32 will do just as good) in the non-afflicted OS..

A little mopre convoluted i simply boot from an external drive and launch any number of tools from there. Linux or standalone. That's kinda the optimal way regardless of your operating system.

As said. A smart competant user can mitigate security risks.

most infections are made to try and actively hide from the OS and 3rd party Anti-virus's.. by running the scans externally you bypass this as you aren't booting into the afflicted OS.. when doing scans on older OS's this is the proper way to do it..

(as for my machines security, I do most of my core browsing on a VM, and do a full reinstall of my OS every 6 months. any truly questionable sites I use a secondary throw away PC for).

That's kind of ...silly. Why not just periodically restore your OS from a Day 1 Backup Image?
Same effect.

my stance in most discussions is I don't care what side of an argument someone takes as long as they don't spread misinformation in their argument, and by saying XP is secure when comparing it to a supported OS you are spreading misinformation.. misinformation that can potnetially cause people some serious issues. if a person makes the concious choice to use an unsupported OS they should do so being aware of the risks and concerns, and misinformation is only going to make them oblivious to said risks and concerns.

The user makes all the difference though. As said. I know my PC is cleaner and safer than any number of Windows 10 machines precisely because I do not indulge in the behaviours that llow 90% of these things through.Having h/w firewall and software firewall with inbound and outbound sensitivity is a big plus. Add to trhat a decent AV program and you cover your ass from all but a specifically targeted attack on your PC.. which is kinda hard on a PC that is constantly changing it's external IP address, That's not a security practice its just how3 ISPs roll out here. You want a static IP you pay $30 to $50 a month extra.

[Muppet among Puppets]

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

Yeah I'm sure if I used 10 long enough i could stockholme myself into liking it but that's not the ideal is it?

There is one thing that really shines in windows 10. Its the button that reverts 10 back to 7. Really, that button is a masterpiece.

[Start_Running]

Originalmente postado por Muppet among Puppets:

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

Yeah I'm sure if I used 10 long enough i could stockholme myself into liking it but that's not the ideal is it?

There is one thing that really shines in windows 10. Its the button that reverts 10 back to 7. Really, that button is a masterpiece.

Why have an imitation when you can use the real thing?

[Muppet among Puppets]

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

Originalmente postado por Muppet among Puppets:

There is one thing that really shines in windows 10. Its the button that reverts 10 back to 7. Really, that button is a masterpiece.

Why have an imitation when you can use the real thing?

I tried to get 7 to look like xp. But i guess they prevent that to make it look "new".
And they do that a step further as well with 10. You are not supposed to have any grey in your windows anymore. Its all new stupid white fresh. And it has a clock!

[Winged One]

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

A little mopre convoluted i simply boot from an external drive and launch any number of tools from there. Linux or standalone. That's kinda the optimal way regardless of your operating system.

Linux scans are well known to have issues detecting Windows based threats (as most Linux AV's, such as ClamAV, are primarily designed to detect threats to Linux, just like MacOS AV's are deisgned to Detect threats to MacOS), and MOST bootable on demand scanners don't have an option to update to the latest definitions like their in OS counterparts do..

by using another Windows based Computer to which you have manually updated the definitions for just before running the scan, you have the best chance of finding deep infections..

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

(as for my machines security, I do most of my core browsing on a VM, and do a full reinstall of my OS every 6 months. any truly questionable sites I use a secondary throw away PC for).

That's kind of ...silly. Why not just periodically restore your OS from a Day 1 Backup Image?
Same effect.

a few reasons.. first, by using a freshly generated ISO I can actually have the machine up and running quicker (usually in only a few minutes), most major updates will already be contained in the ISO cutting the time spent installing updates from an hour in some cases, to a few minutes.. at the same time, it lessens the risk of something going wrong during the installation of a major OS revision or Service pack (Because Windows update services have been utter crap since 2000).

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

The user makes all the difference though. As said. I know my PC is cleaner and safer than any number of Windows 10 machines precisely because I do not indulge in the behaviours that llow 90% of these things through.Having h/w firewall and software firewall with inbound and outbound sensitivity is a big plus. Add to trhat a decent AV program and you cover your ass from all but a specifically targeted attack on your PC.. which is kinda hard on a PC that is constantly changing it's external IP address, That's not a security practice its just how3 ISPs roll out here. You want a static IP you pay $30 to $50 a month extra.

ahh the "I am smart as I use my PC, so I can't possibly have an issue!", I have seen so many people think that way and work themselves into a corner..

a Hardware firefall is not a surefire stop gap (I have dealt with people with Watchgaurd Fireboxes, one of the industry leaders, get some very nasty stuff slip through), and the overall effect of an AV is lessened when an OS isn't getting security updates as security faults within an OS can easily and are commonly used to trick AV's into thinking an infection is a legitimate windows process (which is once again, why you run scans externally).. its why people advise both an AV, AND having your PC up to date



like I said, if you want to use XP all the power to you, but don't spread misinformation.. it doesn't matter how tech savy the user may or may not be, any long unsupported OS is never going to be as secure for them as if they were using one that was..

Originalmente postado por Muppet among Puppets:

Originalmente postado por Start_Running:

Why have an imitation when you can use the real thing?

I tried to get 7 to look like xp. But i guess they prevent that to make it look "new".
And they do that a step further as well with 10. You are not supposed to have any grey in your windows anymore. Its all new stupid white fresh. And it has a clock!

there are shells for that.. I have installed Shells on Windows 10 and 8 for customer to create a user interface matching that of 7 and XP because they complained about 10's interface..

would be nice if it was built in though I will admit..

[Torquato de Rezende]

Windows XP is running about ten years here, (since I have purchased, I'm using since the alpha I have been invited) with no security issues, only the microsoft end of support not accepted not interfering in the system, than the updates from others incurring about it. Nothing best released than cell phones compatibility application and portability.

It's not only a interface problem, which are very discussing to complaint, but how it reacts in "computer" domain.