valve please stop the chase over visual novels and oriental games

[76561198305693217]

https://twitter.com/HuniePotDev/status/997257011384340482

https://twitter.com/HuniePotDev/status/997258547397148675

why do not they do all this chase over games like gta V and the witcher III? just because they are western games and moreover AAA?

[Hazuki-chan]

Цитата допису Sheepify:

Цитата допису Malamasala:

Been ages since I investigated those things, but in every case I remember that happened in the US, it also involved having real CP.

Not the one I linked.

Also, "child pornography" in the US encompasses perfectly legal elsewhere to both produce and consume porn, due to differences in age of concent and pornography laws.

What's really hilarious is that you can go to jail for posession of depiction of sexual acts between people who you could often legally bonk in person.

Look at the map to on the right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ages_of_consent_in_the_United_States

Basically any state which is not green allows having sex with a person that would put you in jail if you watched a movie or had pictures of them having sex (or being "sexualized" for that matter).

I mean, talk about schizo approach to the whole thing.

You'd think they'd at least amend the age at which fictional characters are considered adult to 16. Or put in a law that says fictional characters are not people and do not represent people.

For instance, in movies, you've got one of the main story arcs in Cloud Atlas featuring literal human slave girls cloned and treated as playthings by customers and as property by management, and if they ever dare to get uppity they're made to wear a helmet that shoots a bolt through their brain and kills them before their body is fed into some kind of dissolving solution and turned into food for the remaining clone slaves.
If we were to accuse the film studio and/or cinema audiences of all the things that movie "encourages" with this kind of content, there'd be no fricking end to it... and I'm sure lots of people could come up with worse examples from Hollywood and elsewhere, but hopefully this one is more than horrible enough to illustrate my point.

Disturbing fictional content =/= real-life offences...
And representing bad things =/= condoning them. =_=;;

Цитата допису luckyshot5135:

Pretty much and thats the fkin problem everyone gets offended over these small lil things but they ignore the actual child trafficking happening around the world.

Got to make sure they catch anyone getting freaky with a folder of Simpsons porn first and foremost.
Then maybe they can get around to all the children abducted and kept imprisoned in deplorable conditions, suffering or awaiting constant sexual abuse. Oh wait, that would involve actual effort. Nah, let's just keep hunting cartoon porn fans because MiM told us that will (somehow) Help End Sexual Exploitation of Minors. Oh yeah, it'll totally have a knock-on effect on all the modern-day pirates, kidnappers, human traffickers and such. They really care a lot that the moral police locked up some guy with a computer full of cartoon porn! Really puts a big dent in their operations... =_=;;;

Цитата допису Zero:

People in general are scary as hell. They always want you to feel guilty when you like something they judge morally unnacceptable. It's all part of the harassment BS that goes on in general...

Some people. Possibly many people, but not all, thankfully. There are those who love to take every cheap chance to feel superior to someone else... and then there are those of us who see those former people as the pitiful, insecure dignity parasites that they are, incapable of producing their own dignity from within or from their own behavior, and thus lashing out and stealing it from others on a regular basis. ;)

Цитата допису Malamasala:

I doubt they are waiting with releases. As usual Steam gives the go-ahead to their releases to begin with. So Steam always knew these games were OK, it is just that the report deportment are not aware of it, and instead do knee-jerk reactions as they never were told these games already passed review.

This is a major concern of mine; the issue of Valve or their representatives flip-flopping on games they already approved and removing them with next to no notice, i.e. Maidens of Michael. I really hope they address that along with the other issues; yes, it was a few months ago; so what?
Would you tell a victim of (insert atrocity) to forget about (atrocity in question) because it had been a few months? Something wrong that happened a while ago is still wrong until it's been made right. This whole mental culture of "get over it" helps no-one more than it helps the abusers, demagogues and unjust accusers.

Unless there is literally nothing that can be done about a problem, "moving on" before actually solving that problem is not, and never will be, a good approach... and Valve are certainly not incapable of re-reviewing and bringing back a game that was panic-banned before people in general started to notice it happening. :P

Цитата допису Old Tiger 🐯:

Цитата допису Malamasala:

I doubt they are waiting with releases. As usual Steam gives the go-ahead to their releases to begin with. So Steam always knew these games were OK, it is just that the report deportment are not aware of it, and instead do knee-jerk reactions as they never were told these games already passed review.

Winged Cloud for example is waiting for Steam decision before they put back the patches on their own site. I’m sure at least a few other devs is having a suspicious eye right now from publishing on Steam, while others are probably want to release as soon as possible cuz all the media buzz.

When I recently went searching for an article somewhere that contained a statement by a Valve employee in which they explicitly said "We had not idea visual novels would be so popular, which is why we feel validated in not wanting to tell people what is and isn't a real game" or something like that... I noticed that googling "Valve visual novel" or similar, just produces pages and pages of articles addressing this whole fiasco. The spotlight is certainly on Valve... let's hope they've been using the time since it all started to prepare one heck of a progressive, fanbase-reassuring statement.

[MADanger]

I am considering not buying anymore games on Steam and just going physical copies or disc or some other site. I am really angry Valve does not support freedom of expression in all its forms.

[76561188078797539]

Цитата допису Mad Ass Danger:

I am considering not buying anymore games on Steam and just going physical copies or disc or some other site.

Good luck with that.

I kept off Steam until 2012 when it became blatantly clear it's either Steam, or no games.

"Physical copies" are mostly Steam installer now that'll still download the full game anyway. Other sites won't carry anywhere near the same catalogue - a lot of titles are pretty much "Steam-exclusive" in that even if you buy it elsewhere, it's still a Steam CD-key (Humble Bundle does that a lot).

Only real alternative right now is GOG, but a lot of the big publishers don't want to work with them. Unless you're into indies, then at least you have some choices.

One thing I'd like to mention - don't buy from key reseller sites. They are frequently dodgy at best, and a lot of them straight out rip off developers by not bothering to check if the keys sold are legit or come from credit-card fraud, keygenning, or whatnot.

It's so bad that devs prefer that you'd rather outright pirate games than get a key from a reseller[www.polygon.com].

[Paratech2008]

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

People who have nothing to lose by making demands of companies that do have to answer to others are clueless and have no concept of how businesses run.

[Grima The Fell Dragon]

Цитата допису Sheepify:

Цитата допису Mad Ass Danger:

I am considering not buying anymore games on Steam and just going physical copies or disc or some other site.

Good luck with that.

I kept off Steam until 2012 when it became blatantly clear it's either Steam, or no games.

"Physical copies" are mostly Steam installer now that'll still download the full game anyway. Other sites won't carry anywhere near the same catalogue - a lot of titles are pretty much "Steam-exclusive" in that even if you buy it elsewhere, it's still a Steam CD-key (Humble Bundle does that a lot).

Only real alternative right now is GOG, but a lot of the big publishers don't want to work with them. Unless you're into indies, then at least you have some choices.

One thing I'd like to mention - don't buy from key reseller sites. They are frequently dodgy at best, and a lot of them straight out rip off developers by not bothering to check if the keys sold are legit or come from credit-card fraud, keygenning, or whatnot.

It's so bad that devs prefer that you'd rather outright pirate games than get a key from a reseller[www.polygon.com].

It kinda is steam or the highway. The best place you can buy keys is places like HB cause at least it goes to charity.

I might have to save for a PSP Vita to get the visual novels that seem to release on there.

[Grima The Fell Dragon]

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

People who have nothing to lose by making demands of companies that do have to answer to others are clueless and have no concept of how businesses run.

The law isn't the problem, its the sheer idiocy that they can't recognize a game they allowed on under their rules. They should have vetted the claims and the people making them. All it would have took was for Valve to contact the developers and let them know about the issue and say they were going to double check.

[76561188078797539]

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

People who have nothing to lose by making demands of companies that do have to answer to others are clueless and have no concept of how businesses run.

You mean the same company that somehow managed to implement regional pricing?

A company that is making billions on game distribution worldwide?

Oh noes, won't somebody think of the poor corporation? /s

The applicable laws hardly change that much, and "18+" is a pretty safe worldwide approach.

[Paratech2008]

Цитата допису Spawk:

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

People who have nothing to lose by making demands of companies that do have to answer to others are clueless and have no concept of how businesses run.

Wow, way to advocate the removal of anime.

Цитата допису Mad Ass Danger:

I am considering not buying anymore games on Steam and just going physical copies or disc or some other site. I am really angry Valve does not support freedom of expression in all its forms.

Valve is a company, not a government or activist platform.

Anyway, I see you're "considering" not buying games on Steam anymore. Good on ya for having principles, like many before you :)

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=737896757

I'm not advocating the removal of anything, but I am saying Valve can't just sell anything and everything with no consequences. Businesses have to answer to governments and others and obey laws. Too many people posting here think Valve can sell whatever they want with impunity and that is wrong. Valve has laws it has to follow, why do you think refunds now exist? It wasn't because Valve wanted to offer them.

[76561188078797539]

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

Valve has laws it has to follow, why do you think refunds now exist? It wasn't because Valve wanted to offer them.

What the hell makes you think they don't already have to consider local laws for distribution of any game, regardless of whether or not it has sexual content in it?

Steam does have a legal team. That legal team is already supposed to know the laws of every market they operate in. This argument that "sexual content" laws are somehow unique in that respect is pure strawman.

It's kind of ironic that somebody levying accusations of others not having an idea how international business works is showing blatant ignorance in that very respect.

[Paratech2008]

Цитата допису Sheepify:

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

People who have nothing to lose by making demands of companies that do have to answer to others are clueless and have no concept of how businesses run.

You mean the same company that somehow managed to implement regional pricing?

A company that is making billions on game distribution worldwide?

Oh noes, won't somebody think of the poor corporation? /s

The applicable laws hardly change that much, and "18+" is a pretty safe worldwide approach.

If you think corporations answer to nobody you are mistaken. The amount of money a company generates is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

Maybe if Valve weren't based in the US, they might be able to do anything they want, but they are based in the US.

[76561188078797539]

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

If you think corporations answer to nobody you are mistaken.

Just where did I say anything such?

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

The amount of money a company generates is irrelevant to the issue at hand.

No, it's not. Steam generates enough profit that it's perfectly reasonable to expect it to use a small portion of it to know in detail specific laws wherever they operate.

Especially since they are expected to already know them anyway.

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

Maybe if Valve weren't based in the US, they might be able to do anything they want, but they are based in the US.

Dude... for a multinational it does not matter where they are based in terms of adherence to local laws.

If you operate in a market with distinct legal jurisdiction, your company has to follow local laws. If there is a governing jurisdiction agreement between the nation your HQ is located in and the market nationality, you may have the option to apply, in a limited scope, your preferred laws of the two sets, but never all of them.

Also, your notion that multinationals based in the US are somehow held to some kind of higher standard is so adorably cute. Spoken from a few decades of experience watching them get away with things that get a pretty damn quick response outside of the US.

[Pan Paka Pan]

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

You mean the company who first allow games and then remove them on a will? We can give our opinion on that, of course. Everything is subject to arbitrary criticism, like EA with lootboxes.

[luckyshot5135]

Цитата допису Old Tiger 🐯:

Цитата допису Paratech2008:

I guess its easy to criticize a company that has to answer to politicians and global laws that vary from country to country.

You mean the company who first allow games and then remove them on a will? We can give our opinion on that, of course. Everything is subject to arbitrary criticism, like EA with lootboxes.

Agreed.

[Enigmatic]

they just gotta make sure screen shots and the like are filtered. For the yungins.

[Paratech2008]

So nobody thinks they may get reamed like Facebook or remember the 90s when Nintendo and Sega had to go before the US government on Video Game Violence?

Valve can just do whatever they want with no consequences?