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valve please stop the chase over visual novels and oriental games
https://twitter.com/HuniePotDev/status/997257011384340482

https://twitter.com/HuniePotDev/status/997258547397148675

why do not they do all this chase over games like gta V and the witcher III? just because they are western games and moreover AAA?
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ezwip původně napsal:
The witch hunt and people crying over these anime titles that have pron, and stuff need to grow up. If they don't like something then skip it. If they don't like their kids seeing it then moniter what they do, play and buy.

Taking down stuff that's been on Steam for well around 3+ years is just dumb, not only that if people want to see pron then they can just go to Google. I bet it's going to take Valve another 4 years to do something against House Party.

It's time for Valve to add an adult section to Steam!

This, I vote for an adult section linked to a credit card. Valve seems to cater to the Chinese these days as that market is huge. If we allow that market to determine what can go into a game it's going to get ridiculous at an accelerated rate... Communism and what not.
The thing is, Steam's regular store is (usually) already linked to a credit card... or a PayPal account linked to a credit card.

Though, granted, some video game retailers sell pre-paid cards that just add funds to your Steam wallet using a code, with no credit card involved, and I'm not sure whether they'd sell those cards to a kid. To continue this line of thought, if only to explore a bit of a devil's advocate possibility, it makes you wonder, actually, as that could arguably be a valid concern:
If retailers sell those cards to minors in exchange for cash from the kid's allowance, then disallowing purchases of adult titles using Steam Wallet funds (which is what those pre-paid cards give you) could hypothetically make it harder for kids to obtain adult-oriented titles.

They'd still find ways to do it, of course, and any non-child customers who prefer to shop with Steam Wallet funds and/or pre-paid cards would be inconvenienced, so it would likely annoy more people than it would protect... thus, I really, really wouldn't recommend they actually do this.
Also, predictably, nobody presenting apologia for Valve's confused crackdown on VNs has even mentioned vaguely valid concerns like this. =_=;;
Goes to show how much they, and MiM, actually care about "the children".
Naposledy upravil Hazuki-chan; 1. čvn. 2018 v 12.24
Malamasala původně napsal:
The other side would just say "So, why do you want nazi signs and Hitler in your games?" or "And why do you want immoral porn in your games?".
To the former question, there is one real answer:

Lest we forget

To the latter question, the right and only answer should be,

"Because I can, because it's not illegal, because you don't get to push your idiocy on everybody, and frankly because it's none of your bloody business."
Naposledy upravil 76561188078797539; 1. čvn. 2018 v 15.06
There are many legal things businesses do not support.

Its not right Valve is inconsistent on how it handles what games is accepts and rejects. Customers and Devs and Publishers have to accept that and decide if they want to support Steam or not.

Plenty of businesses are behaving the same way as Valve, Walmart comes to mind.

GTA morals white knight, now i have seen everything. Thanks thread.
Just because Niko helps some drunk italian on a park complaining about his life by killing 456652546 cops/dealers that doesn't make it a Shakespearean storyc classic.:steamfacepalm:
For some reason certain people think their personal taste should dictate which games should go and which should stay, kinda like feelings over law and rationality.
Paratech2008 původně napsal:
There are many legal things businesses do not support.

Its not right Valve is inconsistent on how it handles what games is accepts and rejects. Customers and Devs and Publishers have to accept that and decide if they want to support Steam or not.

Plenty of businesses are behaving the same way as Valve, Walmart comes to mind.
To be honest, I don't agree. I think Valve stand for, or stood for, something better than these kinds of double standards and knee-jerk panic reactions to what essentially boils down to harassment by a professional harassment group.

If they only cared about money, if they were just another business, then surely they would have gone public by now, joined the stock market, let a gaggle of wealthy investors hand them heaps of cash in exchange for their freedom and integrity. But they said no to that option, they decided their vision, or ideas, or freedom, or simply ownership of their own IPs and other concepts, was worth more. They were not wrong, if you ask me; I only wish more companies would do the same.

All of which leads me back to -perhaps naively- wanting to believe that Valve as a whole did not endorse these actions, but were either pressured into them, or misrepresented by someone they trusted to handle day-to-day operations while they focus on... well, whatever they're doing.

The lack of official communication is still not a good thing, but I'd like to think we'll get some kind of official statement eventually, and I hope it includes some apologies and perhaps a restoration of Maidens of Michael and/or other already-approved games that were suddenly and rather covertly removed... or at least an investigation into just what happened, and who made those decisions, and on what grounds.
Hazukichan původně napsal:
If they only cared about money, if they were just another business, then surely they would have gone public by now, joined the stock market, let a gaggle of wealthy investors hand them heaps of cash in exchange for their freedom and integrity.
Um...

Why would Valve relinquish control of their money cow, or give even a small share of the profits to "investors" that it doesn't really need?

Watch when Steam ends up with real competitors in terms of market share, then it might make sense to go public (or accept a buy-out).

If you genuinely think Steam embodies any kind of pro-consumer stance, you haven't been paying attention for years now.
Naposledy upravil 76561188078797539; 1. čvn. 2018 v 21.57
Heck the fact they threatened to throw small publishers to the wolves while ignoring cash cow publishers guilty of the same or worse behavior speaks volumes.

I see there's a new Sakura game, they don't get threatened either.
Sheepify původně napsal:
Hazukichan původně napsal:
If they only cared about money, if they were just another business, then surely they would have gone public by now, joined the stock market, let a gaggle of wealthy investors hand them heaps of cash in exchange for their freedom and integrity.
Um...

Why would Valve relinquish control of their money cow, or give even a small share of the profits to "investors" that it doesn't really need?

Watch when Steam ends up with real competitors in terms of market share, then it might make sense to go public (or accept a buy-out).

If you genuinely think Steam embodies any kind of pro-consumer stance, you haven't been paying attention for years now.
Valid point about the money cow. They could just be motivated by self-interest.

On the other hand, having the market share that they do, they still offer free games from time to time, and it's not unheard-of for games to go 75% off, certainly not uncommon for there to be a 50% off deal of just about anything at one time or another. The sale prices have been a little less dramatically low in recent years, it's true, but still kind of a lot better than buying stuff from Origin, uPlay or retailers... the former two might do the free game thing too here and there, but that's kind of just them doing the games industry equivalent of innovation thing... i.e. "catching up to Valve" (or rather, trying to).

Now, are Valve perfect? No. Is Steam perfect? No. Can it be better? Absolutely. Should it be? Yes! Do Valve care as much as they should about that fact? Quite possibly not. But I'd like to keep hoping they'll come around at some point.

Who knows, though, maybe they're farther gone than I realized. Still, benefit of the doubt? Little bit? Maybe?

Paratech2008 původně napsal:
Heck the fact they threatened to throw small publishers to the wolves while ignoring cash cow publishers guilty of the same or worse behavior speaks volumes.

I see there's a new Sakura game, they don't get threatened either.
Well, they did (supposedly) make Winged Cloud (who develop and/or publish the Sakura games) take all the uncensor patch download links off their Patreon page... that could just have been a pre-emptive measure to avoid further persecution, but with so little reliable info to go on, how are they -or we- supposed to know what's what in this mess? O.o;
Paratech2008 původně napsal:
Heck the fact they threatened to throw small publishers to the wolves while ignoring cash cow publishers guilty of the same or worse behavior speaks volumes.

I see there's a new Sakura game, they don't get threatened either.
Winged Cloud got the same letter as the others. It’s just they didn’t talk openly or on twitter about it, but you can read the history in their patreon (no need to pay anything) in the free posts. Some people there commented on both the situation and the removal of links. Winged Cloud said there they are supposedly figuring out with Steam if they are ok.
I used the word supposedly cuz I don’t really know if Valve is communicating with any dev behind the scenes.
Two games that were heavy prejudiced by this situation is Kindred Spirits and Maidens of Michael, one cuz they spent too much time with Steam just to get accepted and the other outright removed (when in fact both games are basically the same level of adultness).
I heard sad stories from those devs, it’s a hard time now with all this censorship, people losing their jobs, others can’t work with their dreams or hobbies. It’s like a nightmare if you are a dev that can’t work on what you like, really sad.
Has anyone heard an official explanation from Valve yet? I mean this is pretty jerk move to pull, and then shut up on. Was it a lone employee, or did they realize it would be pretty stupid to remove stuff they verified on the word of a random group.
Hazukichan původně napsal:
On the other hand, having the market share that they do, they still offer free games from time to time, and it's not unheard-of for games to go 75% off, certainly not uncommon for there to be a 50% off deal of just about anything at one time or another.
Given the fact that regional prices even without discounts are fractions of the "western" price tags, that's hardly surprising.

Steam is a "mass market push" store. Given the saturation of entertainment titles, they need to get people interested in constant parting with money rather than actually enjoying their games for a while.

Hell, sometimes the 75% off sale is still above some non-discounted regional pricing.
Spawk původně napsal:
Sheepify původně napsal:
Um...

Why would Valve relinquish control of their money cow, or give even a small share of the profits to "investors" that it doesn't really need?

Watch when Steam ends up with real competitors in terms of market share, then it might make sense to go public (or accept a buy-out).
Not that it's any sort of guarantee, but Gabe did say he'd sooner see the company disintegrate than sell it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/09/technology/valve-a-video-game-maker-with-few-rules.html

Mr. Newell said that there was a better chance that Valve would “disintegrate,” its independent-minded workers scattering, than that it would ever be sold.

“It’s way more likely we would head in that direction than say, ‘Let’s find some giant company that wants to cash us out and wait two or three years to have our employment agreements terminate,’ ” he says.
That certainly sounds encouraging. Even if they don't seem to be handling this particular situation ideally, as a company they still seem to be built on at least some principles, whether they relate to the fan base or simply their own creative and decision-making freedom.

I hope they do make a statement at some point, as I feel this whole thing being left so ambiguous somewhat tarnishes the name of a company I've come to respect both for their games and their apparent integrity. Already-approved, already-paid-for games should not just suddenly disappear from the Steam store just because they were vulnerable and thus targeted for attack by sleazy, deceptive "moral" groups like MiM, whose methods strongly resemble outright harassment.

I would think Steam should already have some kind of developer protection policy safeguarding against that... and if not, it should. If a game was reviewed and found acceptable for sale, it should not be removed without first being fully re-reviewed. If it was just accepted without any kind of examination, it should still be reviewed for content before any subsequent removal, by a couple of community volunteers working for nothing if need be. It should not be as simple as throwing out some doctored or non-Steam-version screenshots in spite and seeing a game burn. Assumptions do not make a good foundation for justice, and to loop back to the old "companies exist to make money" perspective, justice is a great incentive for commerce.
Grima The Fell Dragon původně napsal:
Has anyone heard an official explanation from Valve yet? I mean this is pretty jerk move to pull, and then shut up on. Was it a lone employee, or did they realize it would be pretty stupid to remove stuff they verified on the word of a random group.
They're still being very tight-lipped. Seems PC Gamer did a piece on the situation, and Valve declined to comment to them, either.
https://www.pcgamer.com/as-sexual-content-on-steam-is-threatened-developers-look-elsewhere/
Sounds like they got more back then they bargend for and are sticking there heads in the sand hopeing to will be forgoten and blow over. (in other words they are being valve.
thing is this wont be forgoten they poked the wrong user groups.
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Datum zveřejnění: 17. kvě. 2018 v 19.21
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