Epic is starting to worry me

[Quadsword]

Despite massive backlash from their practices, Epic hasn’t let up even slightly. They have financial backing from Disney and Tencent, two of the largest corporations in the world, and a massive cash flow from Fortnite and unreal engine, the former being the most popular game in the world and the latter being the most popular commercial game engine in the world.

I feel like no amount of consumer backlash will stop them getting the monopoly they obviously want. They can just keep throwing money around until they control the entire games industry. I miss the days before mega corporations entered this industry.

[Erebus]

引用自 Eisberg：

引用自 Paratech2008：

Which is why people get mad at you as you think they do no wrong.

You're here to pimp Epic, not have a discussion.

Meanwhile my answer to the question is about what I feel Epic is doing wrong.

I think it's hard for anyone to care about your thoughts on that matter when you've spent 10 months shoving Epic's roadmap and everything else down everyone's throat on every last Epic related game or thread. Not trying to be rude, but just like you are so ridiculously biased towards Epic.

Even when you are ever so slightly critical on the way they handle transaction fees, you're all too willing to handwave other things and take everything else 100% literally.

Like right now if anyone is being honest with themselves it's impossible to tell just how BL3 did on PC. I don't think it failed but there are simply too many questions and none of the statements have been super conclusive. It's their biggest PC launch under that branch, but that branch mainly handles mediocre sports games and hasn't had anything truly mainstream launch in years. Being the biggest launch on Epic also isn't that meaningful because we're lacking context there. It could have moved 600K units and froze there on the launch week and it'd probably beat everything else on the platform while underperforming (again not saying it did). We also don't really know what the situation with GMG and humble keys is... are they counted as Epic performance? What revenue share do they have? What percentage of PC's sales was from them? Hell we don't even know what the individual consoles sales were.

There is an absolute absence of truly meaningful data, yet you're compelled to wax about expectations. We don't have the info to really declare it a failure or a raging success for EGS. Not enough definitive info truly is available.

You have a real habit of being overly accepting of vague statements that are pro-Epic while demanding evidence, witnesses, and blood on anything pro-something else or anti-Epic.

[@R+5]

引用自 Eisberg：

Sorry, I did my reply in a Question and Answer format. I gave the question first, and then I answered that question.

you didnt answered the question, you repeated your previous argument.

im asking specific detailes about what you can perceive as wrong about epic vs consumers, because every company and business has their negative aspects.

You have only focused in what you believe is positive, while rejecting counterarguments from others, so it would be useful if you could actually point what you think or believe is negative for gamers and consumers about epic behavior.

Not complicated if you can actually pinpoint "positive aspects": what are the downsides or negative aspects related to them?

[WhiteKnight]

引用自 TheRandomGuy：

引用自 TwinEdgedBastard：

Tried to avoid getting *trapped* in one of these threads again.

BL3 was most definitely gonna sell a lot regardless of where it was sold, does this mean *our* arguments towards Epics business tactics are invalid? Of course not, in fact this kind of validates them even more.

I would honestly not put it past that publishers and developers are working with Epic to release this data in order to gaslight consumers into thinking the fight is pointless.

Above everything though, the game may have sold well, but it definitely wasn't received too well, and a good portion of the negative reviews do mention the EGS in one way or another.

The question that has yet to be answered is whether or not the sales would of been higher or different if sold elsewhere? Considering how well The Division 2 sold on Uplay and the pre-orders of Cyberpunk, I'm inclined to think that Epic would be doing poorly if they weren't engaging in exclusivity.

Going off of Cyberpunks "1/3 Preorders on GoG" and "Division 2's Sales being majority Uplay Sales", I kind of wonder how Epic, and also Steam, will do in the future when publishers realize that they can just go out on their own if they're big enough. EA did it, now Ubisoft is preparing to go that way, and we also have Activision via Battlenet.

I kind of fear that most big-name publishers will leave both Steam and Epic in favor of their own launchers, which means that in order to play games we'd need many launchers when we used to only have 2-3.

It's such a dreadful feeling when we have to install so many freaking clients and my thoughts go wandering off like :-

1). What are the payment options going to be?. If it just Credit card/Paypal/Paysafe. People without those would have to find another way or not bother with video games or will have to buy a console. Consoles are expensive in certain countries and those can't afford will have to forget gaming.

2). How is the security going to be?. Even with Steam they are security problems to deal with how are others going to be.

3). What will happens to the games that were purchased if a). Company is closed down b). They decide it is not worth investing in client.

4). Will they start charging for multi-player and other features?.

They are mostly many more questions.

So far this many clients exist :-

1). Valve - Steam
2). Ubisoft - Uplay
3). CD Projekt - GOG.com
4). Epic Games - Epic Games Store
5). Microsoft - Microsoft Store/Xbox App
6). Itch.io
7). Electronic Arts - Origin
8). Gamersgate
9). Bethesda - Bethesda Launcher
10). Activision/Blizzard - Battle.net
11). Beamdog - Beamdog Client
12). Direct2Drive
13). Tencent Games - WeGame / WeGameX
14). Perfect World Entertainment - Arc Games Launcher
15). Take-Two Interactive (Rockstar Games/2K Games) - Rockstar Games Launcher
16). Kongregate - Kartridge
........many more :-
https://www.utomik.com/
https://us.gamesplanet.com/
https://www.wildtangent.com/
http://www.gamestreamer.com/
https://gamejolt.com/
https://www.overwolf.com/
https://parsecgaming.com/
https://www.gamehouse.com/
........................even more exist on the www.

Company plans to start a new client :-

1). MY.GAMES - https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/interviews-and-opinion/69694/why-russias-mygames-has-entered-the-store-wars/
2). 2K Games - https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/online-services-engineer-c%2B%2B-pc-console-game-client-at-2k-1119384371 (Maybe?)

And then are other store like Humble Bundle, Green man gaming and various sites that only sells keys.

Clients pending :-

Capcom, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Namco, Spike Chunsoft, Kadokawa Games and clients for each indie games.


We all should start our own client for pun :D.

[Paratech2008]

He believes Epic does no wrong.

Humble has a few DRM Free games, mostly included with Steam keys. They have a GOG key for Witcher 3 GotY and Nintendo Switch keys.

[@R+5]

引用自 WhiteKnight：

We all should start our own client for pun :D.

Which is why i think as users, we dont actually need a client to browse a store (can be useful, but also annoying as you explained, if we want to buy from different sources): we just need a sort of lightweight "keychain", and be allowed to use any collection manager we want, and only have as a separate option an official download manager which could or not be integrated to a store, for the store(s) we use the most.

that way we could use any web browser and any download manager we like, and also avoid consuming unnecessary resources in a browser to open a game or manage a collection (if we wanted that too), and easily backup installation files offline, to also play online or offline as often as we like or care.

[Xaelath]

引用自 WhiteKnight：

引用自 TheRandomGuy：

Going off of Cyberpunks "1/3 Preorders on GoG" and "Division 2's Sales being majority Uplay Sales", I kind of wonder how Epic, and also Steam, will do in the future when publishers realize that they can just go out on their own if they're big enough. EA did it, now Ubisoft is preparing to go that way, and we also have Activision via Battlenet.

I kind of fear that most big-name publishers will leave both Steam and Epic in favor of their own launchers, which means that in order to play games we'd need many launchers when we used to only have 2-3.

It's such a dreadful feeling when we have to install so many freaking clients and my thoughts go wandering off like :-

1). What are the payment options going to be?. If it just Credit card/Paypal/Paysafe. People without those would have to find another way or not bother with video games or will have to buy a console. Consoles are expensive in certain countries and those can't afford will have to forget gaming.

2). How is the security going to be?. Even with Steam they are security problems to deal with how are others going to be.

3). What will happens to the games that were purchased if a). Company is closed down b). They decide it is not worth investing in client.

4). Will they start charging for multi-player and other features?.

They are mostly many more questions.

So far this many clients exist :-

1). Valve - Steam
2). Ubisoft - Uplay
3). CD Projekt - GOG.com
4). Epic Games - Epic Games Store
5). Microsoft - Microsoft Store/Xbox App
6). Itch.io
7). Electronic Arts - Origin
8). Gamersgate
9). Bethesda - Bethesda Launcher
10). Activision/Blizzard - Battle.net
11). Beamdog - Beamdog Client
12). Direct2Drive
13). Tencent Games - WeGame / WeGameX
14). Perfect World Entertainment - Arc Games Launcher
15). Take-Two Interactive (Rockstar Games/2K Games) - Rockstar Games Launcher
16). Kongregate - Kartridge
........many more :-
https://www.utomik.com/
https://us.gamesplanet.com/
https://www.wildtangent.com/
http://www.gamestreamer.com/
https://gamejolt.com/
https://www.overwolf.com/
https://parsecgaming.com/
https://www.gamehouse.com/
........................even more exist on the www.

Company plans to start a new client :-

1). MY.GAMES - https://www.pcgamesinsider.biz/interviews-and-opinion/69694/why-russias-mygames-has-entered-the-store-wars/
2). 2K Games - https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/online-services-engineer-c%2B%2B-pc-console-game-client-at-2k-1119384371 (Maybe?)

And then are other store like Humble Bundle, Green man gaming and various sites that only sells keys.

Clients pending :-

Capcom, Sega, Nintendo, Sony, Namco, Spike Chunsoft, Kadokawa Games and clients for each indie games.


We all should start our own client for pun :D.

Tbh some Publisher especially the Japanese one cannot start new launcher, as it might affect the game their licensing.

It is possible but considering anime marker is quite small, making their own launcher + exclusive might backfired so badly in digital pc market.
Namco/Spike/KT/Kadokawa games?/Idea Factory may have their own launcher or store to sell keys (to avoid 30/70 split) but still have steam to Contain the Data/Updates/Community or such which means there won't be exclusivity but still we would have a launcher within a launcher.

Some VN company like MangaGamer,Jast,SekaiProject does this and another reason I guess they have to make their own store were because some AO games so it's obvious they can't publish some stuff. But they do not have launcher tho.

The few Japanese Publisher that possible to make launcher is Square Enix and Capcom.
Capcom probably already satisfied with their revenue so far and they already announced a huge success with their recent tittles following all their recently released games on steam that sells millions.
Square Enix has been mediocre in terms of sale position to match their previous works.
SE is also one of the Publisher that potentially make a deal with Epic other than those Japanese publisher you mentioned.

[McGillicutti]

引用自 @R+5：

引用自 Eisberg：

Sorry, I did my reply in a Question and Answer format. I gave the question first, and then I answered that question.

you didnt answered the question, you repeated your previous argument.

im asking specific detailes about what you can perceive as wrong about epic vs consumers, because every company and business has their negative aspects.

You have only focused in what you believe is positive, while rejecting counterarguments from others, so it would be useful if you could actually point what you think or believe is negative for gamers and consumers about epic behavior.

Not complicated if you can actually pinpoint "positive aspects": what are the downsides or negative aspects related to them?

I advocate for the consumer and find Valve Steam is pretty good at meeting our interests, but I have pointed out what could be fixed, https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/1643167006291975207/?ctp=211#c1639794651167028687

If you find this along the lines of what you're looking for, even though it's about Valve, feel free to use it as an example to illustrate what you're asking for.

Edit: Reading it again, it's suggestions for Epic to compete with Valve so it is about Valve but Epic too, but I am speaking as a consumer advocate and not someone pro-Epic. I just want to see them move away from anti-Consumer thinking, from assuming the customer stupid etc. If we aren't treated with respect I see no reason, no matter the game they have on their store, to buy from Epic, period.

[Coffee]

引用自 McGillicutti：

Was discussing this with someone else and well....

What if 6 months from now Pitchford, knowing the mods and other things he's about to make happen, does em, only AFTER announcing:

"The Borderlands Game Depot, a new store with an even more generous cut of 10/90 and we're taking Borderlands 3 exclusive to our own store, subject to negotiation with other retailers."

Epic would get the 5% from the Unreal Engine (I think anyway they would, not sure it's an Unreal Engine game) but the rest, all to Pitchford, and every game he buys funded by the money he made from Epic, including Epic's purchase or products to keep the guarantee sales promises made, or even worse, to make sure BL3 was the best selling PC game.

95% from Borderlands 3 combined with the money made in the 6 months of exclusivity with Epic, all channeled into a new store that doesn't let Epic sell their products anymore and that the mods and other features are all part of the new Borderlands Game Depot. At least a years worth of funds riding the wave of the success of BL3 to outbid Epic when it goes after a developer. This wouldn't be good for gaming on its own but it sure would be poetic justice for Tim Sweeney and Epic.

BL3's sales would warrant a special cut for the game to be on Steam too, money Sweeney may not want to pay on top of losing the royalty from Pitchford to set a new deal on Pitchford's terms alone, ticked off how Pitchford broke off the Exclusive after 6 months. BL3 didn't need Epic. Epic needed BL3 and that's pretty obvious. I am tickled at the thought of this hahaha

Except Gearbox has nothing to do with the publishing.

[McGillicutti]

引用自 Louna：

引用自 McGillicutti：

Was discussing this with someone else and well....

What if 6 months from now Pitchford, knowing the mods and other things he's about to make happen, does em, only AFTER announcing:

"The Borderlands Game Depot, a new store with an even more generous cut of 10/90 and we're taking Borderlands 3 exclusive to our own store, subject to negotiation with other retailers."

Epic would get the 5% from the Unreal Engine (I think anyway they would, not sure it's an Unreal Engine game) but the rest, all to Pitchford, and every game he buys funded by the money he made from Epic, including Epic's purchase or products to keep the guarantee sales promises made, or even worse, to make sure BL3 was the best selling PC game.

95% from Borderlands 3 combined with the money made in the 6 months of exclusivity with Epic, all channeled into a new store that doesn't let Epic sell their products anymore and that the mods and other features are all part of the new Borderlands Game Depot. At least a years worth of funds riding the wave of the success of BL3 to outbid Epic when it goes after a developer. This wouldn't be good for gaming on its own but it sure would be poetic justice for Tim Sweeney and Epic.

BL3's sales would warrant a special cut for the game to be on Steam too, money Sweeney may not want to pay on top of losing the royalty from Pitchford to set a new deal on Pitchford's terms alone, ticked off how Pitchford broke off the Exclusive after 6 months. BL3 didn't need Epic. Epic needed BL3 and that's pretty obvious. I am tickled at the thought of this hahaha

Except Gearbox has nothing to do with the publishing.

And they can't? And I am talking about retailing, cutting out all their middlemen.

[WolfEisberg]

引用自 @R+5：

引用自 Eisberg：

Sorry, I did my reply in a Question and Answer format. I gave the question first, and then I answered that question.

you didnt answered the question, you repeated your previous argument.

im asking specific detailes about what you can perceive as wrong about epic vs consumers, because every company and business has their negative aspects.

You have only focused in what you believe is positive, while rejecting counterarguments from others, so it would be useful if you could actually point what you think or believe is negative for gamers and consumers about epic behavior.

Not complicated if you can actually pinpoint "positive aspects": what are the downsides or negative aspects related to them?

sooo, talking about not agreeing with how Epic is dealing with transaction fees is not talking about something they are doing wrong? So if that answer is not something they are doing wrong, then all I can say is you asked an impossible question.

[WolfEisberg]

引用自 Paratech2008：

He believes Epic does no wrong.

Humble has a few DRM Free games, mostly included with Steam keys. They have a GOG key for Witcher 3 GotY and Nintendo Switch keys.

sooooo, me talking about Epic being wrong about how they handle the transaction fees is not believing they are doing something wrong?

How does that work exactly?

[VaiTaPro]

So the only thing wrong with epic is transactions fees, all the rest is fine and consumer friendly.

[Xaelath]

引用自 VaiTaPro：

So the only thing wrong with epic is transactions fees, all the rest is fine and consumer friendly.

Consumer friendly?
HAH.
Imagine not having Debit or Credit Card.

[⎠⎝Zushikatetomoto⎠⎝ UFO]

引用自 Xaelath：

引用自 VaiTaPro：

So the only thing wrong with epic is transactions fees, all the rest is fine and consumer friendly.

Consumer friendly?
HAH.
Imagine not having Debit or Credit Card.

I remember those days on steam before they didn't have steam cards when I was younger.
Talk about hard times back then.

[Xaelath]

引用自 ⎠Zushikatetomoto⎝☢ ☠ ☢：

引用自 Xaelath：

Consumer friendly?
HAH.
Imagine not having Debit or Credit Card.

I remember those days on steam before they didn't have steam cards when I was younger.
Talk about hard times back then.

Or Regional pricing.

It was pretty expensive to afford steam wallet without steam card as we have to use 3rd party to top up the wallet and without regional pricing games is ridiculously expensive.

Back then I only had like 5 games in my library.
I can't thank steam enough with the regional pricing and saleeeees .

About sales, Have Epic done any weekly or monthly sale yet?

Also I want to complain about steam 5 bucks cut as the cut itself got regional pricing.
5 bucks cut turned into 1 bucks here, I am not even sure what to say as some game doesn't have regional pricing , that 5 bucks might helped alot.
I mean I might as have an US currency to get that 5 USD cut if the game wasn't regionally priced.