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Epic is starting to worry me
Despite massive backlash from their practices, Epic hasn’t let up even slightly. They have financial backing from Disney and Tencent, two of the largest corporations in the world, and a massive cash flow from Fortnite and unreal engine, the former being the most popular game in the world and the latter being the most popular commercial game engine in the world.

I feel like no amount of consumer backlash will stop them getting the monopoly they obviously want. They can just keep throwing money around until they control the entire games industry. I miss the days before mega corporations entered this industry.
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3,796-3,810 / 6,649 のコメントを表示
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
-3xA'Lu©κy の投稿を引用:

Not if you don't want to. If you're happy with a mediocre service... what can I possibly say to change your mind?
You still haven't got this have you? I'm using BOTH services so I apparently have the "best" and the "worst" to chose from.

This is why these arguments can be proven silly. I'm not limited in what I do, in any way. I don't have to give Gabe anything, as long as he continues to provide a free service WHILE I can buy elsewhere then that's my win.

eg: If Gabe keeps 30% and Epic give 8% for same sale price, I'll buy Epic every time - and continue to use Steam, for free - because I can.

Gabe will have to put a stop to his "free" services, reduce them OR encourage me to not spend elsewhere by reducing his take or reducing his sell price.

I can't lose here and you can bet that Gabe will get this much faster than you will - if he hasn't already.

I do get it, you're playing the field as you said. I've just seen what Epic has to offer and am more than happy to wait for the better, more-polished and feature-packed version to arrive on Steam along with the better service.

I can't wait to play Dangerous Driving with actual leaderboard support on Steam (something the EGS version lacked).
最近の変更は-3xA'Lu©κy the disappearing actが行いました; 2019年9月3日 1時27分
GunsForBucks の投稿を引用:
@Timberg

I like the Burger King bit... lets revisit that a bit more logically.

What Epic is doing is like BK going to Pepsi and paying them so much money to only sell Pepsi through BK.

Removing Pepsi from all other outlets giving people no choice but to buy Pepsi from BK

Is that what you would call competition?
Even if we used your example, if you want Pepsi, go to Burger King. Coke, wherever.

But your argument hinges on being able to say "but there's no BK where I live". Problem for you is there IS an "Epic" where you live so it's a poor excuse. Thing is, you can also buy Coke from the same place.

Yup, Epics store is woeful. So I use the drive through. The mix in my scotch doesn't give a flying fig.
the wall made of rubber is back?

EDIT
looks like so thats explains the extra three pages I had to scroll and laugh through
最近の変更はSilverkiteが行いました; 2019年9月3日 1時44分
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
GunsForBucks の投稿を引用:
@Timberg

I like the Burger King bit... lets revisit that a bit more logically.

What Epic is doing is like BK going to Pepsi and paying them so much money to only sell Pepsi through BK.

Removing Pepsi from all other outlets giving people no choice but to buy Pepsi from BK

Is that what you would call competition?
Even if we used your example, if you want Pepsi, go to Burger King. Coke, wherever.

But your argument hinges on being able to say "but there's no BK where I live". Problem for you is there IS an "Epic" where you live so it's a poor excuse. Thing is, you can also buy Coke from the same place.

Yup, Epics store is woeful. So I use the drive through. The mix in my scotch doesn't give a flying fig.
When there is no choice they can set the price to whatever they want.... that is the opposite of "competition". I may be able to access an epic outlet from any computer but I am sill forced to buy from epic.

It isn't about "no burger king where I live".

I don't mind a place having an exclusive item... I don't hate at McD's for being the only place to get a Big Mac... they created it... it is their product.

But epic did not make these games, they are just paying to remove them from other outlets. They are paying to remove competition to force people to go to them.... that is not a consumer friendly concept in the least. Actually it is a step worse than what stores like Lowes did to shut down the small hardware stores by price fixing.
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
GunsForBucks の投稿を引用:
@Timberg

I like the Burger King bit... lets revisit that a bit more logically.

What Epic is doing is like BK going to Pepsi and paying them so much money to only sell Pepsi through BK.

Removing Pepsi from all other outlets giving people no choice but to buy Pepsi from BK

Is that what you would call competition?
Even if we used your example, if you want Pepsi, go to Burger King. Coke, wherever.

But your argument hinges on being able to say "but there's no BK where I live". Problem for you is there IS an "Epic" where you live so it's a poor excuse. Thing is, you can also buy Coke from the same place.

Yup, Epics store is woeful. So I use the drive through. The mix in my scotch doesn't give a flying fig.

He is still correct about that not being a competitive practice. It's in fact anti-competitive. Since you're new to this discussion, here's a few points you might have missed: a lot of people are not fine with Epic's acquisition of 3rd party content and locking it behind timed exclusivity. It is an attempt to achieve a defacto monopoly, which fortunately is still meeting mostly negative reception. Epic's business tactics are the tactics of someone who has no faith in the quality of their services (rightfully so, their services are abysmal). So instead of these anti-competitive practices, how about trying to attract customers into their store with at least decent service instead of trying to force people into using their store via timed exclusivity? If they don't trust their own services as providers, why should I as customer trust them? PC gaming was just fine before Epic poisoned the well.
Mate you can keep arguing until the cows come home. Competition ALSO includes *not* buying the game that costs too much. SALES dictate the price and availability, not some mystical force. That's how a free market works.

Every game has to compete with others, it's YOUR impulsiveness that dictates when you buy and for how much (ED; and where). "Exclusivity" knows this.

You.do.not.have.to.buy and because of that the deal has to be attractive to not only the seller, it has to be attractive to the buyer. "Exclusivity" knows this too.

You're literally only arguing what dealership it is, or burger shop, or whatever excuse you chose and using these kinds of fluffy free market misrepresentations to back it.

Everything that happens - YOU decided. No ifs and no buts.
最近の変更はSilky Roughが行いました; 2019年9月3日 1時53分
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
Mate you can keep arguing until the cows come home. Competition ALSO includes *not* buying the game that costs too much. SALES dictate the price and availability, not some mystical force. That's how a free market works.

Every game has to compete with others, it's YOUR impulsiveness that dictates when you buy and for how much (ED; and where). "Exclusivity" knows this.

You.do.not.have.to.buy and because of that the deal has to be attractive to not only the seller, it has to be attractive to the buyer. "Exclusivity" knows this too.

You're literally only arguing what dealership it is, or burger shop, or whatever excuse you chose and using these kinds of fluffy free market misrepresentations to back it.

Everything that happens - YOU decided. No ifs and no buts.

Seems to me that you have no idea what a free market is. So let me elaborate.
My town has four large supermarket chains. The distributed goods however are largely the same, save for the goods which are produced in establishments they own. Basically, they only have exclusive rights to brands they own and finance the production of. Nobody is securing exclusive rights to third-party-made goods.
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
McGillicutti の投稿を引用:

Gabe gets it. That's why he's said what he said about exclusives. He fully understands.

Do you really think Steam didn't think of doing what Epic's doing maybe even years ago? But principle and simply realizing how rewarding it is to see people appreciate what they get can make a huge impact on a person, even if the corporate structure isn't as kind or warm thinking.

It's free and will stay free because Steam wasn't created to be that corporate monolith, here's a little something to consider, and make sure you look for Gabes name in the roster at the site too, note the first thing it says, https://www.valvesoftware.com/en/people
Oooh, I went all gooey. Was I meant to?

But really, pretentious defence of the filthy rich aside, what changes? Your "principles" are a self imposed exclusion that means nothing here. I have no such exclusion. No-one does. This is all fake indignation and circle jerk for the sake of it.

As for Gabe, he's not smarting enough - yet - so he can be as warm and fuzzy as he likes. As long as he sticks to his principles and all his disciples do that thing, I can only benefit even more. So will Epic, so will developers.

As long as love pays the mortgage, let's have some love. Why not.

But you know. You want principles? How about we all agree that the 2 fattest cats in the industry - made fat off the backs of others - should book a ring, duke it out and whoever loses has to set up a developer hub in every country. The other gets to sell it at the rate agreed before the fight.

Can't agree to that for Publishers are the ones making the cash from Epic, not so much Developers unless they self publish.

And that "made fat off the backs of others" is false too.

In reality owners of money are often taking a risk that may not pan out on something, and they hire others to help them, others who have more info, more experience, many other things that make it possible to do what is possible with the money available, to get done what is possible and hopefully more. People are hired to help make the goal happen. The hiring part is where they (both parties) negotiate the price of their help, and therefore an exchange happens, not slavery as your depiction suggests. Both get what they want and, lucky for the ones at Valve the person who had the vision decided it's everyone at Valve's vision, not just their own. While the one at Epic contends it's his way or the highway, demands everyone, even kids do what Epic says even without a judgement, https://torrentfreak.com/cheating-fortnite-kid-keeps-on-cheating-epic-games-tells-court-190901/.

Note the first line in the graphic in the article:

"Defendant did not stop his infringing behavior after being served with Epic's complaint and retaining legal counsel...."

That's Epic claiming someone has do carry on their life a certain way, not from a judgment of a court but from Epic filing a complaint that therefore the great dictator Epic demands that person change solely because of what Epic alleged them to be doing, what Epic says, and that's with Epic noting the kid retained counsel, got a lawyer. What part of retaining counsel does Epic and its lawyers not understand means the kid is fighting the case and not agreeing with what they've said and allege, not proven as a fact, and not ruled upon by a judge? But of course the Epic Arrogance demands compliance because Epic said so, just like demanding Steam cut what it's getting while spouting the, "it's for the Developers," lie, proven by Epic still charging 5% Unreal Engine royalties to all Developers who don't sell their product on Epic, while Epic's "curation" demands they sell exclusively on Epic or Epic doesn't want their product. Let that sink in.

So while you claim they're both the same they're not in how they think of customers, of Publishers, of Developers, essentially in how they think of people. I'll admit Epic pays their people too, though there has been some claims of what you said about fat cats may apply mostly to one fat cat, Epic, https://www.reddit.com/r/FortniteCompetitive/comments/bz34xj/epic_gamesfortnite_is_not_paying_their/.

So yeah principles are the point. The principle someone negotiates their value by applying for the job and then may even negotiate more if the company sees talent in them, and gain even more in opportunity if not direct position, and often gain more wealth of their own, to have a home, raise a family etc. All of that is the good that someone employing them does, and it may include stock options and more, and it may not. The point being is not to discount the generosity of having money for the person hired by the person who can afford to hire, that it is charity even if the one paying is making more than they're paying out, because they could easily have decided not to hire this person, pay someone else less, or just decide to declassify and not even hire anyone, and let their own dream and vision die too.

No one owes us anything for our existence, we earn it and our negotiation and the other party's need as well as generosity, patience and sometimes the opposite of these too is all in play, we have to make a judgment call on the fit. If you're not interviewing the company when they interview you you're doing it all wrong.

So while cynicism has its place, the idea it is good to round down and belittle workers on the raising up obnoxiously those who had some good luck, opportunity, timing, and some amount of will to carry on often in adversity and against all odds, and referring to the employers as "fat cats" to achieve demeaning the employed is pretty loathsome. Doesn't mean everyone is great and honest on either side of the relationship and its good we remember that employers aren't fat cats by default either, helps keep us from bias that blinds.

You've your reasons you buy from both and that's your prerogative of course, and ours is to carry on as we are too.
Silky Rough の投稿を引用:
Mate you can keep arguing until the cows come home. Competition ALSO includes *not* buying the game that costs too much. SALES dictate the price and availability, not some mystical force. That's how a free market works.

Every game has to compete with others, it's YOUR impulsiveness that dictates when you buy and for how much (ED; and where). "Exclusivity" knows this.

You.do.not.have.to.buy and because of that the deal has to be attractive to not only the seller, it has to be attractive to the buyer. "Exclusivity" knows this too.

You're literally only arguing what dealership it is, or burger shop, or whatever excuse you chose and using these kinds of fluffy free market misrepresentations to back it.

Everything that happens - YOU decided. No ifs and no buts.

No isn't a choice when it's forced by Exclusivity.

No is a choice when you have multiple outlets and you decide that you just can't buy it at this time.

The exclusivity is what eliminates "no" from being a free choice. It's a dictated one and loses the entire charm of being anything else because the exclusivity demanded purchase from one place, for the price they say, in the currency they demand, etc. or they give it to you free and then the retailer pays for it and you don't have any actual rights in the product in the eyes of the Publisher or the Developer, the buyer of 200,000 keys to get those "guaranteed sales" done is the one they're designing their product, their support, their proposals to sell, not you, not me, not any actual end user customer, since we're getting it for free or we're only 20% of the total number of products sold, while Epic sells the keys or gives the game away free as it can to who will take it/buy it.
Eisberg の投稿を引用:
I looked at some of what Sourcecode has said, looks like he was constantly being attacked by you people.

Just thought I'd give you an update Eisberg:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NJolski/status/1168838034508275712

That's the 3rd successful report against Source Code's account so I think we can put this matter to bed now.
最近の変更は-3xA'Lu©κy the disappearing actが行いました; 2019年9月3日 3時58分
Eisberg の投稿を引用:
McGillicutti の投稿を引用:
And that means the Owners need to sollicit companies or pick a company on their own pro active step to then offer to have that company carry their product exclusively.

Epic isn't letting it be a market force or appreciation of Epic. Epic is forcing by use of money to companies like Annypurna who were financially strapped, to coerce gaining an excslivity by proactively searching them out, but not by Epic's own ideas either, no by using Steam's wishlists. Thus Epic isn't gaining these exclusivities by merit, but is instead targeting products we want and exploiting consumers to the detriment of their rights to choose, and also the Developer's right to develop and enjoy their loyal fanbase, like in the case of Metro Exodus, that do not want to buy elsewhere, that enjoy the amenities here at Steam and have proven themselves loyal release after release of games published by Deep Silver.

The decision wasn't made on any merits by Epic, just money and targeted to poach these vendors from the entire retail market, while constantly blaming Steam for Epic's proactive moves against Customers, against Consumers and pretending some idea of choosing where to sell something gives Epic cover. It doesn't.


In otherwords Epic is offering a better deal to dev/pubs than what Valve is offering, and the dev/pubs decided to go with a better deal. Nothing wrong with that, if it is ok for the customer to seek out better deals, then the dev/pubs also have the right to take better deals as well.

Ok stop passing false info. Stop fighting users. Stop fighting mods. Might want to find something better to do then this or trouble will follow.
-3xA'Lu©κy の投稿を引用:
Eisberg の投稿を引用:
I looked at some of what Sourcecode has said, looks like he was constantly being attacked by you people.

Just thought I'd give you an update Eisberg:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NJolski/status/1168838034508275712

That's the 3rd successful report against Source Code's account so I think we can put this matter to bed now.
who in the F is Source Code?
Silverkite の投稿を引用:
-3xA'Lu©κy の投稿を引用:

Just thought I'd give you an update Eisberg:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NJolski/status/1168838034508275712

That's the 3rd successful report against Source Code's account so I think we can put this matter to bed now.
who in the F is Source Code?

https://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/1643167006291975207/?ctp=240#c1638669204745821544

I won't be discussing this further as it's getting off-topic and beating a dead horse at this point.
Silverkite の投稿を引用:
-3xA'Lu©κy の投稿を引用:

Just thought I'd give you an update Eisberg:
https://mobile.twitter.com/NJolski/status/1168838034508275712

That's the 3rd successful report against Source Code's account so I think we can put this matter to bed now.
who in the F is Source Code?
A troll that been spamming on Steam forum flaming everyone for not having the same opinion as him about Epic, which he got himself banned from the forum for flaming everyone. Then try taking it to twitter flaming others on there, crying about being cyberbully by everyone when he lose an argument, or put words into others mouth, and call them a cyberbully for not having the same opinion as him, which he got reported few times on Twitter, and been confirm he was breaking the terms for Twitter.
最近の変更はDr.Shadowds 🐉が行いました; 2019年9月3日 4時36分
CloneZZ の投稿を引用:
Erebus の投稿を引用:
An annoying one at that, RIP discounts.... but still it's available on Steam at least.

Discounts on Humble bundle are not better than Steam right? Unless the games are on the bundle, which is rare for big publisher's game.
It may be higher. And they have monthly subscriber discount and you could earn wallet credits by buying bundles before and still referring monthly subscribers.

However Steam as such doesn't allow you to sell your game/keys at a lower price than what would also offer on Steam so it shouldn't be a thing. The bundles typically are sold at a lower price then again you could argue you'll eventually sell at that price on Steam too.
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全スレッド > Steam 掲示板 > Steam Discussions > トピックの詳細
投稿日: 2019年7月5日 19時47分
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