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JC21 Jun 14, 2019 @ 11:42pm
Is Valve going to respond about Deep Silver's bait and switch tactics?
How many people have been scammed by that publisher and where is Valve's response to protect its customers?
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Showing 1-15 of 32 comments
Darren Jun 14, 2019 @ 11:56pm 
None of Steams customers have been impacted. In the case of Metro Exodus all Steam preorders were honoured in the case of Shenmue 3 there hasn't been any Steam preorders (but if there had they would no doubt have been honoured as Steam would have insisted on it).

They did respond to the Metro Exodus one with their unhappiness about how late they were notified about the situation.

Now to be clear I don't agree with what Deep Silver have done in either case (and dislike Epic's practice of purchasing exclusives), but Steam is doing what it can according to the contracts to protect it's customers.
Ruse Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:00am 
There is no bait and switch. Unless you paid money for a product through steam. That was not delivered. Orders and promises of orders outside of steam is not Valve's problem.
Last edited by Ruse; Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:00am
JC21 Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:02am 
Originally posted by Darren:
None of Steams customers have been impacted.
When you advertise Shenmue 1 and 2 on the same platform and have a fake store page for Shenmue 3 that's falsely advertised (even now) with a release date 19 Nov 2019, if people buy Shenmue 1 and 2 and then Shenmue 3 is not released on this platform, then isn't that false advertisement?

And even if you say that's not wrong, how can Valve allow a company to sell their products if they are known to scamming people (not here but in general)?
Darren Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:07am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by Darren:
None of Steams customers have been impacted.
When you advertise Shenmue 1 and 2 on the same platform and have a fake store page for Shenmue 3 that's falsely advertised (even now) with a release date 19 Nov 2019, if people buy Shenmue 1 and 2 and then Shenmue 3 is not released on this platform, then isn't that false advertisement?

And even if you say that's not wrong, how can Valve allow a company to sell their products if they are known to scamming people (not here but in general)?

Release dates can change for a number of reasons (and typically isn't deemed false advertising specifically if you aren't allowed to purchase the product under these conditions). If you paid for Shenmue 3 on Steam Valve would ensure you would get it. Buying two other games doesn't entitle you to anything for the third.

Shenmue 3 will still be released on Steam they clarified this in their FAQ, they really should update the store page (and appear to have actually gotten around to that since looking just now says "Planned Release Date: Coming soon" instead of giving a specific date).
FPS Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:09am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by Darren:
None of Steams customers have been impacted.
When you advertise Shenmue 1 and 2 on the same platform and have a fake store page for Shenmue 3 that's falsely advertised (even now) with a release date 19 Nov 2019, if people buy Shenmue 1 and 2 and then Shenmue 3 is not released on this platform, then isn't that false advertisement?

And even if you say that's not wrong, how can Valve allow a company to sell their products if they are known to scamming people (not here but in general)?
It is not false advertising if the product wasn't actually sold.

It is not Valve's business to decide if there was a scam outside of their platform. If you think you were scammed, you can ask Kickstarter support ot take it to court
JC21 Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:11am 
Originally posted by Darren:
they really should update the store page (and appear to have actually gotten around to that since looking just now says "Planned Release Date: Coming soon" instead of giving a specific date).

On the top right it still says "RELEASE DATE: 19 Nov, 2019"

Originally posted by Darren:
Release dates can change for a number of reasons (and typically isn't deemed false advertising specifically if you aren't allowed to purchase the product under these conditions).

Changing dates isn't, but omitting information or having fake information is.
Darren Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:16am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by Darren:
they really should update the store page (and appear to have actually gotten around to that since looking just now says "Planned Release Date: Coming soon" instead of giving a specific date).

On the top right it still says "RELEASE DATE: 19 Nov, 2019"

Originally posted by Darren:
Release dates can change for a number of reasons (and typically isn't deemed false advertising specifically if you aren't allowed to purchase the product under these conditions).

Changing dates isn't, but omitting information or having fake information is.

That release date has debateable uses some publishers fill that in with the first time the game was available (so for older games getting an initial release on steam that can be decades ago even if it's still coming soon) other publishers put in the Steam release date. Either is technically valid.
JC21 Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:21am 
Originally posted by Darren:
Originally posted by JC21:

On the top right it still says "RELEASE DATE: 19 Nov, 2019"



Changing dates isn't, but omitting information or having fake information is.

That release date has debateable uses some publishers fill that in with the first time the game was available (so for older games getting an initial release on steam that can be decades ago even if it's still coming soon) other publishers put in the Steam release date. Either is technically valid.

For older games it doesn't matter because you can't go back in time and buy the game somewhere else. But for future releases it's omitting to say that the release date there is fake and it's only for the Epic Store. Valve is allowing them to freely advertise their games and sell them elsewhere.
FPS Jun 15, 2019 @ 12:42am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by Darren:

That release date has debateable uses some publishers fill that in with the first time the game was available (so for older games getting an initial release on steam that can be decades ago even if it's still coming soon) other publishers put in the Steam release date. Either is technically valid.

For older games it doesn't matter because you can't go back in time and buy the game somewhere else. But for future releases it's omitting to say that the release date there is fake and it's only for the Epic Store. Valve is allowing them to freely advertise their games and sell them elsewhere.
So why shouldn't Epic take action instead? If the steam page misleads people into believing the game releases on Steam soon, they won't buy it on Epic store.
JC21 Jun 15, 2019 @ 1:45am 
Originally posted by FPS:
Originally posted by JC21:

For older games it doesn't matter because you can't go back in time and buy the game somewhere else. But for future releases it's omitting to say that the release date there is fake and it's only for the Epic Store. Valve is allowing them to freely advertise their games and sell them elsewhere.
So why shouldn't Epic take action instead? If the steam page misleads people into believing the game releases on Steam soon, they won't buy it on Epic store.

Because even if some of the people who saved money to buy it on 19 Nov (as the page says) go to buy it from them, that's still profit from Epic (from free advertisement made on Steam).

Meanwhile, Steam also provides the publisher with free forums where people can post about bugs even if they bought the game on EGS or Windows Store (for Metro Exodus) and they made an announcement that "the Epic Games Store would be the best distribution platform option" for Shenmue 3.

Valve's response? :evafacepalm:
Darren Jun 15, 2019 @ 1:48am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by FPS:
So why shouldn't Epic take action instead? If the steam page misleads people into believing the game releases on Steam soon, they won't buy it on Epic store.

Because even if some of the people who saved money to buy it on 19 Nov (as the page says) go to buy it from them, that's still profit from Epic (from free advertisement made on Steam).

Meanwhile, Steam also provides the publisher with free forums where people can post about bugs even if they bought the game on EGS or Windows Store (for Metro Exodus) and they made an announcement that "the Epic Games Store would be the best distribution platform option" for Shenmue 3.

Valve's response? :evafacepalm:

The forums aren't free they are part of the features supplied for the $100 down-payment per game (and eventual X% of the sales revenue). If the game were never going to come to Steam they'd remove the forum, but as long as it's still going to arrive at some point they don't see the need (and it's good marketing for Valve).
Crazy Tiger Jun 15, 2019 @ 2:19am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by FPS:
So why shouldn't Epic take action instead? If the steam page misleads people into believing the game releases on Steam soon, they won't buy it on Epic store.

Because even if some of the people who saved money to buy it on 19 Nov (as the page says) go to buy it from them, that's still profit from Epic (from free advertisement made on Steam).

Meanwhile, Steam also provides the publisher with free forums where people can post about bugs even if they bought the game on EGS or Windows Store (for Metro Exodus) and they made an announcement that "the Epic Games Store would be the best distribution platform option" for Shenmue 3.

Valve's response? :evafacepalm:

Developers pay for those forums, store page, etc. And as they have paid for it, they have the right to use and have it.

Any response Valve will take, will be notified to the publishers. We users won't see or hear about it, which is the correct thing to do.

Valve also won't respond here, these are user forums.
JC21 Jun 15, 2019 @ 2:32am 
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:
Originally posted by JC21:

Because even if some of the people who saved money to buy it on 19 Nov (as the page says) go to buy it from them, that's still profit from Epic (from free advertisement made on Steam).

Meanwhile, Steam also provides the publisher with free forums where people can post about bugs even if they bought the game on EGS or Windows Store (for Metro Exodus) and they made an announcement that "the Epic Games Store would be the best distribution platform option" for Shenmue 3.

Valve's response? :evafacepalm:

Developers pay for those forums, store page, etc. And as they have paid for it, they have the right to use and have it.

Any response Valve will take, will be notified to the publishers. We users won't see or hear about it, which is the correct thing to do.

Valve also won't respond here, these are user forums.

So they promise Valve that the game will be released in "20 years" and use Steam's features until then while selling the game at another store until noone else is interested to buy it. Seems more like a loophole than something that Valve should allow them to do.
Crazy Tiger Jun 15, 2019 @ 2:55am 
Originally posted by JC21:
Originally posted by Crazy Tiger:

Developers pay for those forums, store page, etc. And as they have paid for it, they have the right to use and have it.

Any response Valve will take, will be notified to the publishers. We users won't see or hear about it, which is the correct thing to do.

Valve also won't respond here, these are user forums.

So they promise Valve that the game will be released in "20 years" and use Steam's features until then while selling the game at another store until noone else is interested to buy it. Seems more like a loophole than something that Valve should allow them to do.

They don't promise Valve anything. They pay for their gamehub and then they're free to do. But even if they did promise, a promise is just that.

Developers/publishers are the owners of the games/software. They decide where and how they sell it. So yes, they could potentially wait 20 years.

Though I doubt Valve will let that happen. Right now I think they're just waiting for the Epic storm to blow over. And if it keeps up too long, Valve will probably act. But again, we won't see or hear much about that. They've been in business quite some time, they know how to handle things. And they know that rash actions and decisions aren't the way forward.
Darren Jun 15, 2019 @ 3:00am 
Okay, lets suppose you buy Shenmue 3 (on Epic) and have issues with it and discover that Epic doesn't have any forums, but you find the Steam ones and you get help on them resolving your issue. Don't you think you'd be more likely to buy your next game on Steam (who seem to be quite generous and consumer focused) instead of Epic if both stores have the game you want at a similar price?

Have one or two bad customer service experiences (which are far worse in my experience on Epic than on Steam, on Steam I lose access to my account I'll have it back in a week just need to provide proof of ownership and we are good, I lost access to my Epic account and they technically never resolved it after more than 3 months with them taking more than a week to reply to each ticket and eventually just not replying at all) and maybe you'll be buying exclusively from Steam and waiting if Epic has it exclusive.
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Date Posted: Jun 14, 2019 @ 11:42pm
Posts: 31