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voidCaster Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:18am
Dear Steam Support:
I'm here today to open a discussion thread of my own concerning a disturbing message from "Steam Support" that accompanied a highly-reviewed-on-Steam game (which has been on my wishlist for a long time, and just today went on sale for 50% off).

After buying, my first look at the control-configuration page told me the game devs don't even know how to set up sensible controls for a first or third person direct-character-control type game. Then I discovered that their default graphics settings are all ULTRA and HIGH, and the game runs like crap on a brand new AMD APU with Vega Graphics even though the printed game specifications state far, far lower system requirements.

I actually took the time to try the game out in spite of these immediate red flags, and after 20 minutes found out the game was nothing like "as advertised" at all. It's a pretty shoddy knock-off of other popular games and it doesn't even try to disguise itself from recognition as such, at least in real/live gameplay.

The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you’re unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing.

I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.

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Originally posted by KillahInstinct:
Originally posted by Nyx:
I gather that it's automated. It still says what it says and implies what it implies, n'est-ce pas?
It doesn't imply anything, that's your own prerogative. It just states a simple fact and a tip.
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Showing 1-15 of 55 comments
Zekiran Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:20am 
You know that's an auto-generated reply if you've refunded more than one or two things within recent memory, right?
voidCaster Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:21am 
I gather that it's automated. It still says what it says and implies what it implies, n'est-ce pas?
Edifier Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:14am 
Originally posted by Nyx:

After buying, my first look at the control-configuration page told me the game devs don't even know how to set up sensible controls for a first or third person direct-character-control type game. Then I discovered that their default graphics settings are all ULTRA and HIGH, and the game runs like crap on a brand new AMD APU with Vega Graphics even though the printed game specifications state far, far lower system requirements.

What game are we talking about and what brand new AMD APU do you have?

I also doubt that a game haven't set up sensible controls for first or third person games.


Originally posted by Nyx:
I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.

Developers can't remove bad reviews. They can't touch the reviews.
Valve have put in a system that will detect review bombing of a game and might remove the offending reviews. But other than that they don't do much to them.

Oh and refund tool is not to be used as a Demo tool. How many refunds have you issued as of lately?
McGillicutti Sep 8, 2019 @ 8:48am 
Originally posted by Nyx:
I'm here today to open a discussion thread of my own concerning a disturbing message from "Steam Support" that accompanied a highly-reviewed-on-Steam game (which has been on my wishlist for a long time, and just today went on sale for 50% off).

After buying, my first look at the control-configuration page told me the game devs don't even know how to set up sensible controls for a first or third person direct-character-control type game. Then I discovered that their default graphics settings are all ULTRA and HIGH, and the game runs like crap on a brand new AMD APU with Vega Graphics even though the printed game specifications state far, far lower system requirements.

I actually took the time to try the game out in spite of these immediate red flags, and after 20 minutes found out the game was nothing like "as advertised" at all. It's a pretty shoddy knock-off of other popular games and it doesn't even try to disguise itself from recognition as such, at least in real/live gameplay.

The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you’re unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing.

I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.

To the OP:

There's a lot of mischievous people in the world. You may take telling you that as an affront but I hope you don't because the way your post comes across is as someone who returned something for not meeting your expectations, and that you have stringent expectations, which is fine, but that you looked into a lot of information about the product without looking at the company who is making it, even looking at the individuals who comprise the team developing the game. You may want to, even in hindsight, look at some of these people and look at their past work. You may find great hints in that that help you realize you need to look far deeper than what these companies present most of the time, and while many people bash larger Developers, they do often have a reputation that far surpasses new Indie Devs who are trying to be clever in ways that just don't work.

So consider that some folks making games are mischievous.

Consider then too that some people who buy games are mischievous.

Consider that sometimes people who make and buy games that are mischievous are also may hate retailers, or hate Steam and be abusive in their mischievousness.

Consider that Steam may get a lot more of these people at their front door in an hour than you've seen in your lifetime, and therefore their policies and statements are reflective of a larger picture than your one purchase, one return, or even if you had done 5 returns in the last 15 minutes (well maybe 30 *humor*).

Just suggesting that it's easy to see things from your one transaction or even a few but that the policies have to address a broader picture, a larger scope and that often the communications of a business are tailored to their circumstances, both the companies and the type of transactions taking place, a refund being a different transaction than a purchase, etc.


I'd suggest instead of going about this on the forums and giving people who haven't anything to do with customer support, mostly volunteers who work these forums a bunch of headaches, that you take your issue up with support by a support ticket. Make your arguments and let them know how you took their automated response to mean, but do be respectful to them, and see what reply you get. If it's inadequate nicely let them know that too. And no I am not saying to kiss up to them. I am saying that the last thing you want if this is a genuine concern is for them to not want to answer you or hear what you have to say respectfully enough they'll take into consideration what your issue is. Put your best foot forward and give them a chance to reply in kind. Assume nothing for your customer support ticket is a separate transaction, a communications transaction, as well.


Good luck and hope you get some answers and/or are effective in conveying what you have to say.

Tito Shivan Sep 8, 2019 @ 9:56am 
Originally posted by Nyx:
The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you’re unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing.
It's an automated message.

You've requested too many refunds and too close together, which triggers a pattern of possible abuse of the refund system. And the system is warning you before it takes action.

Not much different than your bank warning you they've seen suspicious movements on your credit card that look like fraud and calling you before they lock the card in case those movements are legit.

Consider there's bad actors out there using the refund system to get a free ride, play games, refund them and repeat the cycle.
Last edited by Tito Shivan; Sep 8, 2019 @ 9:56am
GuRu Asaki Sep 8, 2019 @ 10:33am 
There are a bunch of Developers right now that are not showing
people what they are actually buying, they are instead showing them
what they want to buy...


Bandai Released Jump Force for the PC by Shonnen Jump...
It looked amazingly awesome, but what people really got instead?

Was an Unfinished Game with almost no Game play Options,
another wards after you beat Story, you play Online 3 different ways,
there is no Story Repeat, & it gets boring fast...

Jump Force feels more like a BETA or Demo then a full Game,
SEASON Pass still has yet to fully been released, & people paid
for it like almost a Year ago... ~_~

Some even paid like $300 for the Game, & got a Demo in return, o_@

While the Game does look great, it does not Offer much to enjoy...

Look at Street Fighter V, it's a very impressive awesome Game right now,
but it's highly expensive to buy DLC for, & the original SF5 Game only
came with like 1 Character in your Roster for a Fighting Game that is
pretty bad, o_@



Some Developers who have released bad Games, actually try & make
them better... Look at Dynasty Warriors 9 for instance... The Game is
like a Year old now, & it's nothing like it was when it first launched, it
has like 500 DLC Items, & it's offering a Free Demo to try it out before
buying the full Game...

& there are also Devs like Nexus who sold a Ghost In The Shell Game,
people loved it, but then they decided to take away all the good stuff
& ran with peoples money with 3 more Games already in development,
that all ended up the same way that Ghost In The Shell did, o_@


When Green Light was around, I heard of some people who implemented
Viruses into Games that got onto the STEAM Store, eventually Green Light
was shut down, but there is no telling if the Games are still on STEAM, or
not...

There are also a bunch of countless numbers of Games that don't work,
when you buy them, some are even from the early 90's & don't work
on this Platform to begin with... But yet still get sold as if they were new
Games, as they were just put on the STEAM Store... o_@



If you don't like this, you can always Revert over to like Ubisoft, or
Origin Client by EA Games... or the EPIC Store... or Windows Store,
They offer a good chunk of Games, but no where near the numbers
of STEAM...


Good Luck...
Crazy Tiger Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:33am 
Originally posted by Nyx:
I gather that it's automated. It still says what it says and implies what it implies, n'est-ce pas?

Which is completely within their refund policy. If you look at the refund policy you'll notice a clause at the bottom where they mention that if they get the idea the policy is abused, they'll take action.

We get threads enough from people who seem to think the refund policy is a substitute to demos. Which it isn't, the policy is there to ensure you have time to see whether the game works, boots up and is playable in the first hour.

If you refund a lot of games in short notice, or refund more than you keep, they can see that as abuse. And yes, they are within their right to do so.

Originally posted by GuRu Asaki:
There are also a bunch of countless numbers of Games that don't work,
when you buy them, some are even from the early 90's & don't work
on this Platform to begin with... But yet still get sold as if they were new
Games, as they were just put on the STEAM Store... o_@

Which is nonsense. This has been said by many people in the "end of XP thread" and they were proven false.

Either use concrete examples of games or don't say wnything at all. This wild speculation is useless sensationalism.
Last edited by Crazy Tiger; Sep 8, 2019 @ 11:35am
nullable Sep 8, 2019 @ 3:32pm 
Originally posted by Nyx:
The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you’re unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing.

I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.

The only disturbing thing is you don't understand the refund policies. Also that you think you can conflate issues and make assumptions to continue to enable your crummy shopping habits.

And even if you don't trust Steam reviews for whatever bogus reasons you want to invent, that's hardly the only source for information about games. Steam isn't responsible for your pickiness over reviews or inability to research products before purchasing.

You're not going to get the supportive echo chamber you hoped for in on these forums, sorry.

Originally posted by GuRu Asaki:
There are also a bunch of countless numbers of Games that don't work,
when you buy them, some are even from the early 90's & don't work
on this Platform to begin with... But yet still get sold as if they were new
Games, as they were just put on the STEAM Store... o_@

They work... let's just say you're not the target demographic....
Last edited by nullable; Sep 8, 2019 @ 3:55pm
Kelthorian Sep 8, 2019 @ 4:19pm 
Originally posted by Nyx:
I'm here today to open a discussion thread of my own concerning a disturbing message from "Steam Support" that accompanied a highly-reviewed-on-Steam game (which has been on my wishlist for a long time, and just today went on sale for 50% off).

After buying, my first look at the control-configuration page told me the game devs don't even know how to set up sensible controls for a first or third person direct-character-control type game. Then I discovered that their default graphics settings are all ULTRA and HIGH, and the game runs like crap on a brand new AMD APU with Vega Graphics even though the printed game specifications state far, far lower system requirements.

I actually took the time to try the game out in spite of these immediate red flags, and after 20 minutes found out the game was nothing like "as advertised" at all. It's a pretty shoddy knock-off of other popular games and it doesn't even try to disguise itself from recognition as such, at least in real/live gameplay.

The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):

You’ve requested a significant number of refunds recently. If you’re unsure about a product, make sure to check out the customer reviews before purchasing.

I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.


Don't trust positive reviews. Always judge a game by the negative reviews or ideally don't even bother with Steam's review system and search for opinions elsewhere.

I've also read elsewhere that besides steam's the move to flag "off-topic" negative AND ONLY NEGATIVE reviews from the total score a lot of developers are now trying their luck in banning reviews. Anything that isn't completely inoffensive and politically correct has a chance to get deleted from what I read.

Also don't use the forums here. Game hub are moderated by the seller so trying so warn others about a game's poor quality is a guaranteed ban depending on the developer.
A Global Moderator has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
KillahInstinct Sep 8, 2019 @ 4:27pm 
Originally posted by Nyx:
I gather that it's automated. It still says what it says and implies what it implies, n'est-ce pas?
It doesn't imply anything, that's your own prerogative. It just states a simple fact and a tip.
KillahInstinct Sep 8, 2019 @ 4:31pm 
Originally posted by Kelthorian:
Originally posted by Nyx:
I'm here today to open a discussion thread of my own concerning a disturbing message from "Steam Support" that accompanied a highly-reviewed-on-Steam game (which has been on my wishlist for a long time, and just today went on sale for 50% off).

After buying, my first look at the control-configuration page told me the game devs don't even know how to set up sensible controls for a first or third person direct-character-control type game. Then I discovered that their default graphics settings are all ULTRA and HIGH, and the game runs like crap on a brand new AMD APU with Vega Graphics even though the printed game specifications state far, far lower system requirements.

I actually took the time to try the game out in spite of these immediate red flags, and after 20 minutes found out the game was nothing like "as advertised" at all. It's a pretty shoddy knock-off of other popular games and it doesn't even try to disguise itself from recognition as such, at least in real/live gameplay.

The offending message from Steam Support (while they did grant my refund) really intimates that maybe they won't the next time I fall for false advertising and inexplicably good reviews on games that turn out to be total trash, don't look or act at all like the game that I read about and watched video previews of (obviously generated cutscenes, not legit gameplay):



I did find another thread on the front page of the Discussions board that details a trend of either Steam or else the developers removing bad reviews. Coupled with this message from Steam Support during a refund incident, the news is even more disturbing.


Don't trust positive reviews. Always judge a game by the negative reviews or ideally don't even bother with Steam's review system and search for opinions elsewhere.

I've also read elsewhere that besides steam's the move to flag "off-topic" negative AND ONLY NEGATIVE reviews from the total score a lot of developers are now trying their luck in banning reviews. Anything that isn't completely inoffensive and politically correct has a chance to get deleted from what I read.

Also don't use the forums here. Game hub are moderated by the seller so trying so warn others about a game's poor quality is a guaranteed ban depending on the developer.
That's a very negative way of looking at things.

If you do get banned from here, odds are you broke the rules. Sure, it has happened like once or twice that developers that were new to developing games and propelled to sudden success weren't used to handling a community and critics, and mishandled the situation but those were quickly rectified. It wasnt illwill. To recommend someone to not use the forums at all seems unneeded.

Also, reviews aren't removed (unless they actually break the rules). Only review bombing is handled as it's generally nonsense that a game all of a sudden becomes a different experience for something that happened. The information is still there and if anything made to stand out so you can make an informed decision.
voidCaster Sep 8, 2019 @ 5:12pm 
Originally posted by Edifier:

What game are we talking about and what brand new AMD APU do you have?

Oh and refund tool is not to be used as a Demo tool. How many refunds have you issued as of lately?

A lot of folks said these so I'm going to reply even though I marked an answer already. It's not the only one that contains the same content, but it's the first one I saw that contained its content and was laid out concisely and completely.

I don't intend to bash that game publically or even specifically. It's not what was advertised. Its devs describe it as "Open World" which universally means "do anything that's possible at any time" but in 20 minutes of gameplay I never saw anything but "totally on rails" meaning "you literally can't do anything but a series of steps pre-baked into the system." If you can't think of at least a dozen games on Steam that have done this exactly (and a hundred more that are in the ballpark with fraud advertising), then naming this game specifically wouldn't make any difference because you don't Steam much at all. My issue was an alarming message from Steam Support, not a desire to fling poo.

In the last 6 months I believe I've bought upwards of a dozen games and returned 2-4 in total. My "dozen" may include packages that contain multiple units. I typically make 2-3 purchases per month on Steam without returns. My most recent purchase of about 4 games at the same time (before the offending message dropped in my mailbox) was not returned. In fact I've logged nearly 100 hours in one of those.

I don't buy Steam games randomly or purchase for "demo" purposes. As I said in my original post, the game whose return spawned this alarming message was in my Wishlist for weeks or months before I bought it. Some have been in my Wishlist for over a year. I periodically go through that Wishlist and review the game and its reviews. Pretty rarely will I go outside Steam for any reviews.

Anyway, thanks to those who didn't post flame or abuse. I do appreciate good advice and I recognize legit attempts to help from the folks who asked which game/which APU since they're obviously trying to audit my credibility to make decisions as to what should run on my hardware and what shouldn't. If I could mark multiple answers or upvote most of these posts, I would.
Zekiran Sep 8, 2019 @ 6:36pm 
Refunding more than 2 things will likely trigger that wholly automatic reply.

They're not targeting you. They're just reminding EVERYONE who uses the system, not to abuse it, even accidentally. Refunds are a privilege, not a right.

I'm still curious as to what game you're talking about, as everyone else is. I would be resoundingly disappointed myself, if 'as advertised' and 'as playable' were that radically different, too.
Kelthorian Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:20pm 
Originally posted by KillahInstinct:
That's a very negative way of looking at things.

I would call it realistic. Fact of the matter is: If the forums you are going to are controlled and moderated by the people you are buying from what guarantee do you have that your criticism as a paying customer will be respected and not shutdown if they see it as "problematic"?

Do Valve have any say in any given games subforum? Can Valve step in if they are locking threads and banning people critical of the game ? Pretty sure from what I've read so far is that the answer is practically if not theoretically a "It's their forum and their business".

So no I will not recommend people getting their hopes up for a fair treatment if they have no power to check unethical behavior from a developer or publisher. Better to use a platform that isn't in a direct conflict of interest.

Sure it's not many probably not even the majority but I've seen enough instances where a community will react heavily against something and OFTEN not rarely OFTEN TIMES threads will be locked and bans handed out like it's Christmas and they are playing as Santa Klaus.

Originally posted by KillahInstinct:
Also, reviews aren't removed (unless they actually break the rules). Only review bombing is handled as it's generally nonsense that a game all of a sudden becomes a different experience for something that happened. The information is still there and if anything made to stand out so you can make an informed decision.


Regarding reviews I've made up my mind already and no argument I've seen so far has convinced me otherwise. The system was way better IMO when Valve took a hands-off approach. Reviewing rules weren't strictly enforced (they still really aren't for positives offtopic or nonsense but negatives are fair game) and the only thing Valve looked for was direct manipulation by the developer either by reviewing it themselves or buying positive reviews through Greenlight. The entire system seemed way more honest as far as direct buyer feedback was without Valve's current manipulation of what is and isn't a valid review.

Now honest customer feedback that would otherwise be locked and banned from the developer controlled forums is also being flagged and muted at best and banned at worst.

It used to be that people could just read and make up their own minds. IT EVEN HAD A DAMNED FUNCTIONING VOTING SYSTEM FOR THE REVIEWS THEMSELVES.
But now only bloody positive "helpful" votes count for reviews as far as visibility is concerned and people can't express themselves honestly (funny has replaced the not helpful button since this does show up) or see others expression (not helpful isn't visibly counted anymore "but it's there TRUST US......").

So no I completely disagree in the changes that Valve brought because I actually value honesty in a customer - seller relationship, even if that honesty isn't pleasant to the seller. Truth itself has value.
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Date Posted: Sep 8, 2019 @ 7:18am
Posts: 55