RDR 2 Steam delay shows that publishers can treat Steam users like crap because Valve won't do anything

[Mendax]

Steam's becoming a joke. 1 month delay and you allow it? Unless you do something PC gaming will return to 2007.

[Tito Shivan]

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

I have more pressing issues and priorities in my life.

Real life duties and worries put other worries in perspective.
BL3 going Epic exclusive might be a hobby threatening condition for some... But for others it just means they have to buy the game elsewhere...

Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:

I'll probably drift away from gaming at that point and just take up a new hobby.

If you find any other hobby out there devoid of drama or 'predatory business tactics' (as people here loooove to call them) give me a call. Because I've gone through lots of them and it's always a rose by other name.

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

I dis-like streaming and im going too be totally honest here, but if one day in the future streaming is the only way to play games then I will be streaming.

I've played games in console cartridges, Floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, Digital downloads... Streaming might just be the next evolutionary step. Obtusingly denying to use streaming will become as dumb as purposelly not wanting to stop playing cartridge games.

I have my opinions on popularity of stream-gaming right now, mostly for the reasons Me and Erebus discussed earlier in regards internet infrastucture. But times flies fast and the day for Streaming to stand on their own foot might be closer than we think.

[Start_Running]

Reading is a relativelty drama free hobby. You don't have any need to engage with the fandom around a particular book or series. You can just enjoy it buy yourself with a cup of hot mint-chocolate on a pleasantly rainy day.

[Erebus]

Start_Running님이 먼저 게시:

Reading is a relatively drama free hobby. You don't have any need to engage with the fandom around a particular book or series. You can just enjoy it buy yourself with a cup of hot mint-chocolate on a pleasantly rainy day.

That really depends on what topics and genres. Authors tend to be quite political and it can and does bleed into their works even fiction. Sometimes to the point of rendering their latter works trying affairs. Not so much the differing views, opinions, and inspirations... but rather when the writing suffers because they have to shoehorn things in even when it doesn't flow with the setting they designed. Again not to say politically inspired works are bad in of themselves, some great works are indeed heavily inspired or even allegories... but there are also a lot of works where it is almost an independent story with the authors personal political manifesto jammed up the works ass so the reader chokes on it.

...It's pretty difficult to tell what you got either til you start reading.

Also sometimes the topics of censorship and etc. come up as does the fact that books can push the envelope much further on content than film, games, or music could ever get away with.

So it really depends on what type literature one gravitates towards.

[Erebus]

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

I would say your right in this regards Erebus. Please understand it from my side here and what im about to say.... I have more pressing issues and priorities in my life.

First my main worry is being able to keep the roof over my families head and keeping my kids feed, clothed and warmed and my life must revolve around being able to maintain these at all costs. So gaming issues are really at the bottom of the list of things to worry about or care about for me.

Don't get me wrong, I see the way the industry is heading and I don't like it. What can I do about this, stop doing something I love just to make a point ? All this DRM, streaming, epic vs steam, MTX, loot boxes have no bearing on my real life what so ever, so I choose to ignore it totally.

I dis-like streaming and im going too be totally honest here, but if one day in the future streaming is the only way to play games then I will be streaming.

I don't think you're wrong, and proper perspective on priorities is important. That said I think there is a real issue where people use the fact something is a lower priority as an excuse (both to others and themselves) for supporting things counter to their own interests. The whole "it's not important" apathy thing. I see people sometimes use it as an excuse to buy into MTX and the like... while they spend a lot of time ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ about MTX and games balanced around MTX. Confront them on it though and you get some excuse about how other stuff is more important and yada yada.

I do suspect some things wouldn't have so much traction if people didn't approach so much with apathy when it isn't at the top of their list of priorities. "It is what it is," isn't an inherently wrong approach to things but all the same that kind of apathy doesn't help guide things in a direction you'd like either. I think it sometimes results in people giving up too early and jumping aboard, cementing things existence.

Granted as a hobby, a lot of people just want to relax and not worry about extra ♥♥♥♥. I get that. I probably comment on things way more than norm, simply because health problems rule out spending much time on a number of other hobbies.

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

I have my opinions on popularity of stream-gaming right now, mostly for the reasons Me and Erebus discussed earlier in regards internet infrastucture. But times flies fast and the day for Streaming to stand on their own foot might be closer than we think.

I disagree. It's not any more viable now in the near-term than it was when OnLive tried and failed.

The latency, bandwidth, and datacap hurdles cut it off at the knees even before you get into ownership and blah blah blah. There simply isn't enough ISP competition even in a lot of cities to drive good pricing/packages and service. Telecoms and ISPs also don't want to invest anything in infrastructure, even as they take money from gov'ts for it. In the US telecoms are doing everything they can to get people off the "old copper" for phone lines, because of the expense to maintain. Moving everyone to either cell networks or VOIP, which makes sense for cost... but those networks are also much much more fragile and under extreme load they crumble. Whereas the old copper more or less works so long as the lines aren't physically severed.

Look at things like google fiber too, they had to abandon rolling out their deployment in at least one city because their method for installing infrastructure in a cost-effective manner didn't work. Their shallow trenching the fiber cables had them coming back out of the ground and laying exposed in streets and elsewhere. And that was a major city deployment that went off the rails. To get everyone on a connection that could reliably stream a game or something similar, we're talking about probably 100s of 1000s of miles of infrastructure globally that needs work.

Might be doable when the bulk of the population is in a handful of metropolitan areas, but anything more spread out? Forget it. Not to mention unlike phone lines and powerlines, distance from the ISPs network makes or breaks things. Even living near a city I'm enough feet away from the ISP's hub that I barely qualify for the speed I get now.

[Ganger]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

I've played games in console cartridges, Floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, Digital downloads... Streaming might just be the next evolutionary step. Obtusingly denying to use streaming will become as dumb as purposelly not wanting to stop playing cartridge games.

You missed cassette tapes :D from the 8-bit computer days.

[RedLightning]

Apathy aside.. I think that if these big boys keep doing what they are doing.. they will just end up negativaly affecting the entire industry.

What Valve came to overcome (?) will start back up full force.. if not even bigger then before..

arrrrrrr.

[Tito Shivan]

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

I've played games in console cartridges, Floppy disks, CDs, DVDs, Digital downloads... Streaming might just be the next evolutionary step. Obtusingly denying to use streaming will become as dumb as purposelly not wanting to stop playing cartridge games.

You missed cassette tapes :D from the 8-bit computer days.

I didn't! I only forgot to add them to the list!

RedLightning님이 먼저 게시:

Apathy aside.. I think that if these big boys keep doing what they are doing.. they will just end up negativaly affecting the entire industry.

The industry is more resilient than that.

Erebus님이 먼저 게시:

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

I have my opinions on popularity of stream-gaming right now, mostly for the reasons Me and Erebus discussed earlier in regards internet infrastucture. But times flies fast and the day for Streaming to stand on their own foot might be closer than we think.

I disagree. It's not any more viable now in the near-term than it was when OnLive tried and failed.

I didn't meant it to be in a near future. Network infrastructure and ISPs business models still have a way to go. However these are the same problems services like Netflix had and look where they are.
Still stream-gaming is a different beast and I don't hold much confidence on Stadia given Google's record on dropping projects as dead weight just because.

[RedLightning]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

You missed cassette tapes :D from the 8-bit computer days.

I didn't! I only forgot to add them to the list!

RedLightning님이 먼저 게시:

Apathy aside.. I think that if these big boys keep doing what they are doing.. they will just end up negativaly affecting the entire industry.

The industry is more resilient than that.

Erebus님이 먼저 게시:

I disagree. It's not any more viable now in the near-term than it was when OnLive tried and failed.

I didn't meant it to be in a near future. Network infrastructure and ISPs business models still have a way to go. However these are the same problems services like Netflix had and look where they are.
Still stream-gaming is a different beast and I don't hold much confidence on Stadia given Google's record on dropping projects as dead weight just because.

Nah... They do what they like to do.. until it affects them in the pocket book. Greed always gets the best of them all.

More and more people will start to go back to the dark ages of computing.. the one in which Valve was so insistent on replacing.

As far as streaming .. I will quit gaming altogether.

[Ganger]

RedLightning님이 먼저 게시:

As far as streaming .. I will quit gaming altogether.

You know how many times I have heard this though out the decades, more times than a centipede has legs and the people saying it are still gaming.

[TheRandomGuy]

Tito Shivan님이 먼저 게시:

Erebus님이 먼저 게시:

I disagree. It's not any more viable now in the near-term than it was when OnLive tried and failed.

I didn't meant it to be in a near future. Network infrastructure and ISPs business models still have a way to go. However these are the same problems services like Netflix had and look where they are.
Still stream-gaming is a different beast and I don't hold much confidence on Stadia given Google's record on dropping projects as dead weight just because.

Personally, and I know my experience is probably in the minority here, but in rural areas, or areas that aren't huge data-centers or urban, I don't think internet speeds (at least in the US) can match what Stadia needs (10 mbps right?) on basic connections. ISPs in the US have little fiefdoms and more often than not there is no competition in large swaths of the US.

I never had problems streaming TV / Movies (on one TV / Device at a time) on 4 mpbs internet, however I'd be willing to bet gaming performance via Stadia would be worse, likely by a large margin. Until Internet Access gets classified as a Public Service like Water and Electricity, I don't think any ISP will really change. Regulation needs to happen before Streaming of bigger things (like games) can really hit mainstream, or else it'll just be limited to data-centers and well-off urban neighborhoods.

I agree on Google's Track Record though, they have a history of dropping under-performing products rather quickly. Counting on any new Google Product to last isn't a smart decision.

[RedLightning]

Ganger님이 먼저 게시:

RedLightning님이 먼저 게시:

As far as streaming .. I will quit gaming altogether.

You know how many times I have heard this though out the decades, more times than a centipede has legs and the people saying it are still gaming.

You certainly do not know me .. at all.

Doesn't matter how many times you've heard it, that doesn't change my mind.

I do know that if these big cats keep their crap up .. it will not be good.

Even Giants Fall.

[Ganger]

RedLightning님이 먼저 게시:

You certainly do not know me .. at all.

Doesn't matter how many times you've heard it, that doesn't change my mind.

I do know that if these big cats keep their crap up .. it will not be good.

Even Giants Fall.

I do not know you from adam but I have heard this from many people in the past and guest what, they always back track on their words at some point and lose face. But you could be one of them very rare strong people who always stick by their word for all I know m8. Just saying from my own experience dealing with people.

That's why I always say 'sit on the fence'. This way you always have the option and not to lose face once you do back down.

The thing is, once someone says 'I won't do this' and then does it, people tend to think you talk BS all the time. This is why I always stand in the background over matters and issues. Ok im off, cya laters..

[Red River]

I have no problem waiting for the STEAM version.. looks like their launcher is sh1t anyway... :)

[Paratech2008]

The launcher made me ditch buying Grand Theft Auto V, but since Bazillians of people buy it every 50% or better sale, it doesn't matter,

That's why they can jarate on us.

[VaiTaPro]

Eisberg님이 먼저 게시:

Red River님이 먼저 게시:

I have no problem waiting for the STEAM version.. looks like their launcher is sh1t anyway... :)

With the Steam version, you are going to be required to use Rockstar Launcher as well.

The RGL will only launch the game and then close.