Why can't we sell games?

[Another Panda]

Isn't selling a game on steam the same as selling a physical copy of the game?

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

Escrito originalmente por OnFire彡:

I for my part only buy the games with money of the market. Never did and never will give a real cent to steam.

You're still making them money though, you realize that right? xD

He's actually making them even more money. Every time he sells something Valve gets a cut of that money and then they get more when he uses that money to buy stuff.

[Radioaktivist]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

You're still making them money though, you realize that right? xD

He's actually making them even more money. Every time he sells something Valve gets a cut of that money and then they get more when he uses that money to buy stuff.

I know but im doing this while waiting in games mostly. So i rather see it as free games even though you are right and its not

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por OnFire彡:

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

He's actually making them even more money. Every time he sells something Valve gets a cut of that money and then they get more when he uses that money to buy stuff.

I know but im doing this while waiting in games mostly. So i rather see it as free games even though you are right and its not

Perception vs Reality

[Hooch]

Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

Escrito originalmente por Another Panda:

Gamestop sells used games... Why can't I sell my single player games?

Gamestop siphoning off billions in profit from the games market with their used sales practices is a horrible example to use in any situation.

For one, that it makes billions and takes billions away from developers due to used game sales doesn't appear to be true at all. It seems to be quite the exaggeration, there does not appear to be any evidence whatsoever for your claim.

And why is it a bad example? Because you say so? There should be something more to it than that. Otherwise, when I say it's a great example, I can claim that's all there is to it. Doesn't seem reasonable, does it?

[Start_Running]

Escrito originalmente por ✫ Aionion:

Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

Gamestop siphoning off billions in profit from the games market with their used sales practices is a horrible example to use in any situation.

For one, that it makes billions and takes billions away from developers due to used game sales doesn't appear to be true at all. It seems to be quite the exaggeration, there does not appear to be any evidence whatsoever for your claim.

Actually they themselves state that the bulk of their revenue comes from resales. Even Jim Sterling did a piece on that one. And yeah when a retailer buys it back for 20 dollars they're going to sell it again for 30 dollars. None of that 30 dollars goes back to the publisher. It's why there was a tentative push towards digital ore at the very least, console locked games. Games that were locked to a specific console.

And why is it a bad example? Because you say so? There should be something more to it than that. Otherwise, when I say it's a great example, I can claim that's all there is to it. Doesn't seem reasonable, does it?

IT's a bad example because it shows a case of how the practice actively harms developers and publishers.

[Pheace]

Escrito originalmente por ✫ Aionion:

For one, that it makes billions and takes billions away from developers due to used game sales doesn't appear to be true at all. It seems to be quite the exaggeration, there does not appear to be any evidence whatsoever for your claim.

And why is it a bad example? Because you say so? There should be something more to it than that. Otherwise, when I say it's a great example, I can claim that's all there is to it. Doesn't seem reasonable, does it?

I'm not going to do your googling for you, it's widely known and based on their own statements/reports. If you had bothered to look you'd already know it was true.

[Hooch]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Actually they themselves state that the bulk of their revenue comes from resales.

GameStop generated 31.5% of its revenue from new game sales and 24% of its revenue from used and value game sales in Q3 2016. And it's sales continue to fall for used game sales each quarter.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/02/28/why-shares-of-gamestop-dropped-today.aspx

"New software sales and pre-owned sales declined 3.4% and 7.5%, respectively, impacted by lagging Xbox One sales." (Q2 2017)

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=130125&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=2295544

You may have confused sales and revenue with "profit margins" of which used games have almost a 50% profit margin.

And why is it a bad example?

IT's a bad example because it shows a case of how the practice actively harms developers and publishers.

When people sell used consoles and games on Craigslist, the developer and publisher don't see any of the profit either. Should we disallow people from using Craigslist in this manner?

Are the same people who would be less expensive consoles and used games the same who would buy a brand new more expensive consoles and brand new games?

Since data indicates[techfishnews.com]* that video game piracy doesn't seem to actually harm the industry as a whole economically, how do used game (and console) sales? What makes the case of used game sales different?

*"unlawful consumption [of games] leads to elevated legal consumption." To be more precise, the research estimates that for every 100 games which might be downloaded illegally, players truly legally get hold of 24 more video games (including free video games) than they might in a world during which piracy did not exist.

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Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

Escrito originalmente por ✫ Aionion:

For one, that it makes billions and takes billions away from developers due to used game sales doesn't appear to be true at all. It seems to be quite the exaggeration, there does not appear to be any evidence whatsoever for your claim.

And why is it a bad example? Because you say so? There should be something more to it than that. Otherwise, when I say it's a great example, I can claim that's all there is to it. Doesn't seem reasonable, does it?

I'm not going to do your googling for you, it's widely known and based on their own statements/reports. If you had bothered to look you'd already know it was true.

You are projecting. YOU made the claim, the onus is on YOU to support your own claim, not anyone else. And in this instance, you couldn't do so.

That which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

[Start_Running]

Dude. You've done some research good. Now how about you putyourself into the shoes of a digital publisher ; a small to mid-levelpublisher and figure how reselling might impact them. Then consider how one would adapt to mitigate this loss in sales.

[Hooch]

Escrito originalmente por Start_Running:

Dude. You've done some research good. Now how about you putyourself into the shoes of a digital publisher ; a small to mid-levelpublisher and figure how reselling might impact them. Then consider how one would adapt to mitigate this loss in sales.

To be clear here, 'm not advocating or even condoning used game sales nor even piracy. I'm not making a moral or economic argument FOR used game sales (nor even piracy). What I'm doing is pointing out that what is a commonly held belief isn't necessarily true, and it isn't quite the black and white issue that many would make it out to be. Most people (especially younger people) tend to be sheep in the sense that as long as they hear a decent sound byte, read a clever bumper sticker, hear something often, or see that many others believe something, they just accept it to be true without question. As a result, such group think can often cause quite a bit of harm (in various forms). I oppose that type of ignorance, adamantly, as any rational being who values truth over dogmatism should.

As far as the small to mid-level publisher, I'm not sure they are impacted at all since their games generally don't seem to be the sort that are being resold (or even pirated). Do you have some specific examples?

Also,

When people sell used consoles and games on Craigslist, the developer and publisher don't see any of the profit either. Should we disallow people from using Craigslist in this manner?

Are the same people who would be less expensive consoles and used games the same who would buy a brand new more expensive consoles and brand new games?

PS It is my personal view that if an action causes harm to others it generally is not a moral or even beneficial action and as such, it should not be done. I don't think piracy should be done (even if it generally helps an industry as the study suggests) and if it is the case that used game sales causes sufficient harm to others it is not a good thing to do. But I am questioning that claim because I won't take a stand on any position without doing so.

[GarytheLad]

But what if I told you, someone bought say... fifa 17 second hand from a ... I dunno...Game stop? What if that same person then went on to spend 100s in the online store buying packs and whatever? What if at the point of sale he didn’t have 40 bucks to spend on a game, but 20 he did for a second hand. Then he got paid later, and went on to spend those 100s I mentioned on a later date? No one making money?

[Hooch]

Escrito originalmente por GarytheLad:

But what if I told you, someone bought say... fifa 17 second hand from a ... I dunno...Game stop? What if that same person then went on to spend 100s in the online store buying packs and whatever? What if at the point of sale he didn’t have 40 bucks to spend on a game, but 20 he did for a second hand. Then he got paid later, and went on to spend those 100s I mentioned on a later date? No one making money?

Yup, not as black and white.

Also, if Gamespot is to be criticized for allowing the practice of buying/selling used games, then so too shouldn't Craigslist, Amazon, Goodwill, Glyde, JJGames, and others?

[GarytheLad]

Escrito originalmente por ✫ Aionion:

Escrito originalmente por GarytheLad:

But what if I told you, someone bought say... fifa 17 second hand from a ... I dunno...Game stop? What if that same person then went on to spend 100s in the online store buying packs and whatever? What if at the point of sale he didn’t have 40 bucks to spend on a game, but 20 he did for a second hand. Then he got paid later, and went on to spend those 100s I mentioned on a later date? No one making money?

Yup, not as black and white.

Also, if Gamespot is to be criticized for allowing the practice of buying/selling used games, then so too shouldn't Craigslist, Amazon, Goodwill, Glyde, JJGames, and others?

Probably, but that’s something they’ll have to work out.

[Pheace]

Escrito originalmente por ✫ Aionion:

Escrito originalmente por GarytheLad:

But what if I told you, someone bought say... fifa 17 second hand from a ... I dunno...Game stop? What if that same person then went on to spend 100s in the online store buying packs and whatever? What if at the point of sale he didn’t have 40 bucks to spend on a game, but 20 he did for a second hand. Then he got paid later, and went on to spend those 100s I mentioned on a later date? No one making money?

Yup, not as black and white.

Also, if Gamespot is to be criticized for allowing the practice of buying/selling used games, then so too shouldn't Craigslist, Amazon, Goodwill, Glyde, JJGames, and others?

No one's saying Gamestop was the only place this happens, it's just one of the most aggregious examples.

Also, in the above example he could just as easily have waited for a sale and gotten it at 20 or waited for the money at which point he had 40 to spend on the game and '100's' still left for online.

Patience is the only thing standing between you and a cheaper game these days because PC gaming these days is sales galore.

[Hooch]

Escrito originalmente por Pheace:

Also, in the above example he could just as easily have waited for a sale and gotten it at 20 or waited for the money at which point he had 40 to spend on the game and '100's' still left for online.

Yes, waiting for a sale of $20 which may or may not happen and at an unknown time is one option. But just because it IS an option in no way means that other options do not exist or that it is the best option. It just means that it, as an option, does indeed exist. And for most consumers, buying something they desire when they have the means to do so and it is an affordable cost to them, means that it is an acceptable time to buy that product (vs take a chance with a lessor trusted seller with a sale that may or may not happen at an unknown time).

Patience is the only thing standing between you and a cheaper game these days because PC gaming these days is sales galore.

Studies seem to indicate that despite frequent sales of PC games from various distributors, a significant number of consumers still prefer a well known brand from a local physical store.

If you want to make the case that it is hurting the industry, the best thing you can do is offer evidence that it actually is hurting the industry and is causing more harm to others than good.

[GarytheLad]

Another thing to look at is, he didn’t “want” to spend 40, he had the money to pay 40, and could easily afford to do it, but didn’t “want” to pay 40. He then bought it second hand for 20 to “have a go” and found himself hooked on it, and still spending the extra money on packs and such. So it’s not just about affordability, it’s about wanting to pay full price and not wanting to. I could easily spend 35 quid on GTA 5, but I’m not that bothered about buying it for that much, guess I’ll wait to see it on sale or preowned somewhere. Who knows... I might even buy a few megalodon cards...