Should steam stop selling Early Access Games?

[Fat Rambo]

To be honest, the early access game will never be complete, Dayz, Rust, or any other early access games, for how long they have been early access and i dont think they ever will be completed. Technically its bluffing players money, if steam insist on releasing these games, then they should allow refunds after the 2 weeks 2 hours refundpolicy.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

May90 の投稿を引用：

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

They couldn't sell the games because so many were copies of similar games and themes.

It doesn't seem like you played many games in 90-s, if you seriously are suggesting such a thing.

Haven't had a console since 1978. So no I don't play console games.

The games I did play in the early 90s were like Commander Keen -- https://classicreload.com/commander-keen-5-goodbye-galaxy.html

It wasn't until 1996 did I return to playing newer games, and that was the whole Age of Empires series and Commandoes. Played Quake II (still have the box on the shelf here). Then 2000 came and Deus Ex, and got lost in that game for a couple of years.

I don't hop around playing games like yesterday's underwear. Prefer franchise games due to the time and money commitment.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

cinedine の投稿を引用：

May90 の投稿を引用：

It doesn't seem like you played many games in 90-s, if you seriously are suggesting such a thing. 90-s were the time when the video game market thrived [...]

and others:

I guess he mean the infamous crash of the 80s. It's the prerogative of the old to mess up their decades. :P

Early 90s, too. The relief from the mess didn't come until the late 90s, when the big titles like Quake were released.

[Start_Running]

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

cinedine の投稿を引用：

and others:

I guess he mean the infamous crash of the 80s. It's the prerogative of the old to mess up their decades. :P

Early 90s, too. The relief from the mess didn't come until the late 90s, when the big titles like Quake were released.

Ahh.. soi you only started gaming when quake came around. because here's the joke. a lot of the titles I listed. Were before quake.. Quake really wasn't even that great a game at the time honestly.

[DOOM SLAYER]

No, better sell them, as there are good games that actually do evolve.

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

...Quake really wasn't even that great a game at the time honestly.

That stings.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

Start_Running の投稿を引用：

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

Early 90s, too. The relief from the mess didn't come until the late 90s, when the big titles like Quake were released.

Ahh.. soi you only started gaming when quake came around. because here's the joke. a lot of the titles I listed. Were before quake.. Quake really wasn't even that great a game at the time honestly.

No, I started gaming with a Sears Pong game in 1975. I was playing the earliest games on a Timex Sinclair in 1983 (tape deck then for a "hard drive"). Then moved to the 286 for the 5.25" games. Bypassed the 386, and went straight to the 486DX (just when the graphical browser was being released for public consumption).

BTW, Quake fueled video gaming in a manner not seen in a decade. All those titles that came out in 1998-2000 wasn't some fluke (or just the Dot.com bubble). BUT when they did come out too many of the games were raw violence, why I enjoyed the change with Deus Ex, which was revolutionary a the time giving players options than "run and gun".

Nice try, Start, but I was there then, and nothing you say otherwise changes that.

[May90]

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

Haven't had a console since 1978. So no I don't play console games.

The games I did play in the early 90s were like Commander Keen -- https://classicreload.com/commander-keen-5-goodbye-galaxy.html

It wasn't until 1996 did I return to playing newer games, and that was the whole Age of Empires series and Commandoes. Played Quake II (still have the box on the shelf here). Then 2000 came and Deus Ex, and got lost in that game for a couple of years.

I don't hop around playing games like yesterday's underwear. Prefer franchise games due to the time and money commitment.

That's fine, but you can't really make statements such as video gaming almost killed in 90-s, when you've missed half of the time period you are talking about. Some of the first games I've ever played were Wolfenstein 3D and Dune 2, and boy were they good! Dune 2 is actually to thank for my lifetime love towards RTS games: that game impressed me to no limit.

As far as consoles go, I've never owned one. I'm talking solely about PC gaming. No idea what was going on with consoles in 90-s.

I'm not saying that 90-s were any better than now; I think they were worse, mostly due to the technical limitations not allowing the developers to implement complex mechanics that are in place in all games nowadays. But I fail to see how anyone can seriously claim that video gaming was in any danger in 90-s, at the time when most genres we play nowadays were born.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

May90 の投稿を引用：

That's fine, but you can't really make statements such as video gaming almost killed in 90-s, when you've missed half of the time period you are talking about.

Video gaming in the early 90s with the hardware we had then, wasn't much to write home about. You found a game you liked and stuck playing it. In fact, I was playing more of the late 1980s games like D&D Pools of Radiance than anything but Commander Keen, as it wasn't interesting to me.

My boyfriend had a SEGA console and I would play his games on it, but I was more into PCs than consoles (I hate cartridge gaming and the limitations of consoles, so much so, I loved the whole Deus Ex: Independence War fight over consoles [that was a forum meltdown of all meltdowns!]).

Apprently, boys, you still don't want to believe women were gaming then. We were and from the beginning, too.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

Gaming news wasn't even a thing by then. So people mostly went blind buying their games and consoles. Nowadays you have all the info you need at the tip of your fingertips.

Back then people stuck to games they liked playing. I'm still stuck to them as I never threw or sold those games going back to 1981 (the BASIC days, folks). So if they were a Commander Keen fan they played that game. Same with DOOM and Quake. People didn't have 1000 games on their shelves like they do on Steam. They REALLY played a few games religously.

The difference is like night and day. Just look at the walkthrough videos for Deus Ex on YouTube now. Almost all are speed runs. When I posted on some of the vids that my first run took over 300hrs, the kids were like "you're too slow". Nope, but I found every 7.62mm round in every tunnel and air shaft ... and got creative creating shrapnel bombs at the 'ton hotel.

Gaming today is like spent underwear, meaningless and disposible with attention spans to match.

[May90]

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

Video gaming in the early 90s with the hardware we had then, wasn't much to write home about. You found a game you liked and stuck playing it. In fact, I was playing more of the late 1980s games like D&D Pools of Radiance than anything but Commander Keen, as it wasn't interesting to me.

My boyfriend had a SEGA console and I would play his games on it, but I was more into PCs than consoles (I hate cartridge gaming and the limitations of consoles, so much so, I loved the whole Deus Ex: Independence War fight over consoles [that was a forum meltdown of all meltdowns!]).

Apprently, boys, you still don't want to believe women were gaming then. We were and from the beginning, too.

Nothing to do with genders, I was simply using the information you provided - perhaps incorrectly. ;)

Regardless, sure, compared to the modern complex games with intricate AI, 4096-polygon models, etc., gaming was severely lacking in 90-s. However, what the developers lacked in hardware capabilities, they had to make up by various cunning design choices. That lead to some clunky, but extremely fun and strangely complicated games. It is much like with computational mathematics: a lot of very deep mathematical theories were developed solely to be able to use extremely limited processor capabilities to solve complex mathematical problems.

Take Doom. Mechanically, the game is very simple, nowadays probably a good CS student can write all the gameplay elements from scratch. To make the game fun and diverse, the developers had to think outside the box. They came up with incredible level design, with cheesy monster AI mechanics (monsters would fight each other if accidentally damaged each other when shooting at you!), with crazy "garage-made" soundtrack, with dark, yet arcade-ish visuals... The game was clunky, with a lot of exploits and shortcuts, it was extremely unbalanced, in some ways broken - but it had soul, it felt "alive".

This is something lacking in many modern games. You play a modern shooter, like, I don't know, Battlefield 1. Sure, the visuals are great. Sure, the shooting mechanic has been perfected. Sure, multiplayer is fun. But... It just feels somehow generic, "too clean". It is a good game, but it is missing something, some kind of spark that made many games with ugly pixelated mechanics so cozy.

The new Doom is amazing in this regard. It brought that cheeziness back, when the focus is not on balance, realism, polish, but on raw fun. Unfortunately, I grew out of such games, I am now mostly interested in complex RTS and story-based RPG games, so I didn't give it the attention I would have 20 years ago - but Bethesda showed to everyone that the better parts of gaming from 90-s can still be used successfully nowadays.

---

Anyway, this is a very off the topic discussion. The bottom line is, if Early Access supports innovative kickstarter/indie developers, then, just like in 90-s, we have a chance to soon see a few more revolutions in gaming.

[Dimebag]

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

It behooves studios to accept feedback not goto war against gamers.

I do agree but their actions in regards to customer feedback or as it is known here on Steam "Review bombing" shows who's opinion they value and apparently customers are not it .

This whole site is becoming more anti consumer by the day .

Valve needs to use their own PAID moderators to at least show some seperation between the the developer and the customer because as it stands we are basically being dealt with in bad faith by many here .

[Tito Shivan]

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

Back then people stuck to games they liked playing.

Back then people stuck to the few games they could buy.

You also got stuck with games you hated, because that was the only game you got for a long time.

I remeber having Contra as the only thing to play the first levels over and over and over and over.

We often see the old times under rose tinted glasses.

[May90]

I hear you. Golden Axe here, probably over 100 playthroughs of a pretty trashy one hour long game. Pre-mainstream gaming times were fun. :p

[Paratech2008]

Super Street Fighter 2 was $70 on the SNES, almost any fighting game on Steam is better and can be had cheaper. Justice League Task Force was around the same price and Injustice kills it let alone Injustice 2.

I had Sonic the Hedgehog as my only Sega Genesis game 25 years ago for over a month.

Most of the games I have on Steam, that I play, have give me much more joy and been under $10.

While I snack on GOG from time to time, I have been happy with many newer games compared to what I purchased on my Super NES and Genesis, except RPG, many of those still are great.

[KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER]

Tito Shivan の投稿を引用：

KEVYNE_KICKLIGHTER の投稿を引用：

Back then people stuck to games they liked playing.

Back then people stuck to the few games they could buy.

You also got stuck with games you hated, because that was the only game you got for a long time.

I remeber having Contra as the only thing to play the first levels over and over and over and over.

We often see the old times under rose tinted glasses.

Well, that explains why I wasn't playing other games from '93 to '96! ;)

I play games worth my time, not simply that it exists. Just playing X game for X level to say "I'm a player!" is nonsensical to me. It has to work and have replay value. Why I keep games for decades because they do have replay value.