Asset-Flipping: Do you have all the facts?

[Heather,kettle,games,]

no one cares about the assets they orly care about the game play

[Radene]

Nguyên văn bởi Albcatmastercat:

Nguyên văn bởi Radene:

That's like complaining when writers use already existing combinations of letters, string them together, and sell it.

I think it is more like a writer releasing a book that was already released, only changing things like the names and title.

I know, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are basically the same thing. Same structure, same concepts, same tropes. Both have "supernatural aid wearing robes", both have blue-glowing weapons for the protagonist, both have a mytical "oracle", both have a "dressing as the enemy" scene, both have the struggle of the protagonist against "dark side" (and against those who have fallen to it), both have the protagonist being tempted by that dark side...

I mean, seriously, watch one and you don't have to read the other.

[Albcatmastercat]

Nguyên văn bởi nerv prokis:

Nguyên văn bởi Albcatmastercat:

I think it is more like a writer releasing a book that was already released, only changing things like the names and title.

A fairly good analogy, although id say its closer to the author taking paragraphs, adding in a little bit in between and selling it.

I think what people call "Asset Flips" don't have that adding thing. I have seen some games where the only difference was the map (the "Title").

Nguyên văn bởi Radene:

Nguyên văn bởi Albcatmastercat:

I think it is more like a writer releasing a book that was already released, only changing things like the names and title.

I know, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are basically the same thing. Same structure, same concepts, same tropes. Both have "supernatural aid wearing robes", both have blue-glowing weapons for the protagonist, both have a mytical "oracle", both have a "dressing as the enemy" scene, both have the struggle of the protagonist against "dark side" (and against those who have fallen to it), both have the protagonist being tempted by that dark side...

I mean, seriously, watch one and you don't have to watch the other.

No, those are different enough and branch off to other areas. I cannot say much more due to not watching LotR, though.

[Radene]

Nguyên văn bởi Albcatmastercat:

Nguyên văn bởi Radene:

I know, Star Wars and Lord of the Rings are basically the same thing. Same structure, same concepts, same tropes. Both have "supernatural aid wearing robes", both have blue-glowing weapons for the protagonist, both have a mytical "oracle", both have a "dressing as the enemy" scene, both have the struggle of the protagonist against "dark side" (and against those who have fallen to it), both have the protagonist being tempted by that dark side...

I mean, seriously, watch one and you don't have to watch the other.

No, those are different enough and branch off to other areas. I cannot say much more due to not watching LotR, though.

Could have also used superhero movies. Those ESPECIALLY are "See one, seen them all".

[rincewind]

So, it's like using the default assets of RPG Maker!

That's not very professional.

@Insanity Wolf-Chan

Those are a game and the two sequels?

[JolanXBL]

Nguyên văn bởi rincewind:

So, it's like using the default assets of RPG Maker!
That's not very professional.

However it is what the asset creators want people to do. The owners of RM and Unreal created assets and gave permission to developers to use them in their projects commercially. Trying to argue that doing so is wrong is the exact same as telling those creators to their faces that they are wrong for distributing their own property.

This is the same bullsh-- that happened with Skyrim's Paid mods debacle. It's none of your (anti-flippers) godda-n business what someone decides to do with THEIR property! If they decide to give it out with a license to sell, then it's in their rights to do so. And someone has a problem with what comes of it, Tough Potatoe!

[Mivo]

Nguyên văn bởi JolanXBL:

It's none of your (anti-flippers) godda-n business what someone decides to do with THEIR property! If they decide to give it out with a license to sell, then it's in their rights to do so.

There's no doubt that asset creators can do whatever they want with their creations. The beef is with developers who use obvious assets that are used by multiple other games, frequently in the same genre.

But since it's their game, they can do whatever they want, just like potential buyers can decide not to buy their games and tell others about the reasons why not. Ultimately, customers decide what practices are successful and what practices fail. "Review bombing" has shown that, regardless of how one feels about that approach.

[Tux]

Nguyên văn bởi Mivo:

Nguyên văn bởi JolanXBL:

It's none of your (anti-flippers) godda-n business what someone decides to do with THEIR property! If they decide to give it out with a license to sell, then it's in their rights to do so.

There's no doubt that asset creators can do whatever they want with their creations. The beef is with developers who use obvious assets that are used by multiple other games, frequently in the same genre.

But since it's their game, they can do whatever they want, just like potential buyers can decide not to buy their games and tell others about the reasons why not. Ultimately, customers decide what practices are successful and what practices fail. "Review bombing" has shown that, regardless of how one feels about that approach.

first of all lets be extreemly frank and honest for a moment. How many of you have actually seen this happen and how many times (and I dont mean 'oh look that might be from another game let me look it up") etither

[JolanXBL]

Honestly I find review bombing to be childish, and many reviews on Steam in general are merely 'good game' or 'worst ever', without even saying why. Reviews are supposed to be informative on the product's highs and lows, not just eh or meh and what you read somewhere on the internet.

Come on, Reviewers! Git Gud!

[rincewind]

Nguyên văn bởi JolanXBL:

Nguyên văn bởi rincewind:

So, it's like using the default assets of RPG Maker!
That's not very professional.

However it is what the asset creators want people to do. The owners of RM and Unreal created assets and gave permission to developers to use them in their projects commercially. Trying to argue that doing so is wrong is the exact same as telling those creators to their faces that they are wrong for distributing their own property.

This is the same bullsh-- that happened with Skyrim's Paid mods debacle. It's none of your (anti-flippers) godda-n business what someone decides to do with THEIR property! If they decide to give it out with a license to sell, then it's in their rights to do so. And someone has a problem with what comes of it, Tough Potatoe!

I mean that's not very professional for developers to use those assets.
It's like using the default assets in RPG Maker.

When one see a game using those, the first thought is 'lazy'. Is not a very good first impression.
They of course can use them anyways, and that's cool. But usually potential buyers doesn't get a good first impression.

[JolanXBL]

True. But I avoid rm games because there's only so much that app can do.
And so.. so much reading text boxes @_@

[Tux]

Nguyên văn bởi rincewind:

Nguyên văn bởi JolanXBL:

However it is what the asset creators want people to do. The owners of RM and Unreal created assets and gave permission to developers to use them in their projects commercially. Trying to argue that doing so is wrong is the exact same as telling those creators to their faces that they are wrong for distributing their own property.

This is the same bullsh-- that happened with Skyrim's Paid mods debacle. It's none of your (anti-flippers) godda-n business what someone decides to do with THEIR property! If they decide to give it out with a license to sell, then it's in their rights to do so. And someone has a problem with what comes of it, Tough Potatoe!

I mean that's not very professional for developers to use those assets.
It's like using the default assets in RPG Maker.

When one see a game using those, the first thought is 'lazy'. Is not a very good first impression.
They of course can use them anyways, and that's cool. But usually potential buyers doesn't get a good first impression.

I completely disagree.

I think using assets is extremely professional.

I am actually a web programmer by trade and when we have a requirement the first thing we do, before writting any code, is to see if there is a product that does it already. $400 or so vs. a developers spending 6 months to re-create it? no brainer

[[415]BlazeMcNight]

Nguyên văn bởi Tux:

Nguyên văn bởi rincewind:

I mean that's not very professional for developers to use those assets.
It's like using the default assets in RPG Maker.

When one see a game using those, the first thought is 'lazy'. Is not a very good first impression.
They of course can use them anyways, and that's cool. But usually potential buyers doesn't get a good first impression.

I completely disagree.

I think using assets is extremely professional.

I am actually a web programmer by trade and when we have a requirement the first thing we do, before writting any code, is to see if there is a product that does it already. $400 or so vs. a developers spending 6 months to re-create it? no brainer

That's great and all, but that doesn't speak for every firm out there.

That might be an easy solution for web development, but I would rather have my programmers create their own entities any day of the week.

With that logic, one could say that as a web developer, you're not very professional for using someone else's modules for your projects.

[rincewind]

Nguyên văn bởi Tux:

Nguyên văn bởi rincewind:

I mean that's not very professional for developers to use those assets.
It's like using the default assets in RPG Maker.

When one see a game using those, the first thought is 'lazy'. Is not a very good first impression.
They of course can use them anyways, and that's cool. But usually potential buyers doesn't get a good first impression.

I completely disagree.

I think using assets is extremely professional.

I am actually a web programmer by trade and when we have a requirement the first thing we do, before writting any code, is to see if there is a product that does it already. $400 or so vs. a developers spending 6 months to re-create it? no brainer

I don't know. Having the same protagonist for each single game out there would be... weird. And pretty boring if you ask me.

And a RPG maker game using the default portrait is a huge neon sign saying 'WARNING'.

[BossGalaga]

Nguyên văn bởi Tux:

here is what most of your buddies will do

critic: 'asset fliping is not buying an asset from the store and using it, its when a developer buys a feature that is nearly a competeld game and adding nothign else to it'

me: 'can I see an example'

critic: 'sure, here is one'

me: (looks at example) example is of a game in which the developer bought assets from the store AND added plenty of their own content.

there lies the problem. I have seen that happen more often then not

Actually, I gave you an example in another thread of just that, people flipping completed game projects from the Unity Asset Store, NOT adding "plenty of their own content" and then uploading them straight to Steam. You ignored that. You act like this is some sort of rare phenomenon that doesn't exist. It does.

People buy a completely premade game, graphics, gameplay, sound, music, change or swap out some default logos and names and then upload it straight to Steam. Sometimes they'll just take some art assets and drop it straight into an Unreal/Unity tutorial. There are people who have actually straight up put actual Unreal/Unity tutorials straight on Greenlight without even bothering to add store assets. There are also people whose games consist of a plethora of stolen art assets simply dropped into some premade engine or game project. I don't understand how you can pretend like this doesn't happen...A LOT.

And like I pointed out with the example of Uncrowded which was a straight asset flip of UnitZ from the Unity Asset Store, the "developer" even forgot to remove some of the default UnitZ logos and titles. That's how little effort they put into it.

That is EXACTLY what an asset flip is. I don't see people grabbing torches and pitchforks because of some re-used (not stolen) art assets which is what you seem to be trying to claim. I see them grabbing the torches and pitchforks for ♥♥♥♥ like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5svAoQ7D38k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9VnQ-Z9SNo

Both JimQuisition and SidAlpha have covered asset flipping on Steam quite extensively in numerous videos.

You don't like it? That's fine. You're entitled to your opinion...just like everyone else is entitled to call games like this exactly what they are. If it looks like smells like and plays like guess what? It's probably .

[volfin]

Nguyên văn bởi No_OneHere:

You know that assets are made as a basis to make your own, not to be "used as is"?

Dunno who told you that, but they are wrong. The whole point of buying assets is, you don't have the time or skill to make your own. If you could completely change an asset to be 'something else' you may as well just make it yourself.