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The fiasco didn't stem from steam truly wanting to help modders and to enable people to donate to them or help them by paying for some of the content. The fiasco was after all that pandering to th goodwill of the people (and I am one of them that truly would have donated for some of the content) they finally presented the modding community with the solution. The solution and the figures were what everyone objected to.
Do you truly think people wouldn't back modders up with donations? People act in good will alot of times and thats why kickstarters and patreon is so successful, same with early access and the same reason why early access is suffering so heavily from abuse. Steam just wanted to have a slice of that abuse.
Now I,granted, over-exaggurated the figures to make the punchline stronger, but it's not far off.
Yes, as has been proven by donation figures we've gotten from modders themselves like SkyUI which got $500 lifetime donations (~4 years), whereas an armor set on the paid mods store made over $400 for the modder in the first 2 days alone.
Just as people feel that 'being free' has been a long time 'tradition' of the modding scene, on that same not I'd argue donation for mods has really not been part of modding in general and is a rarity at best (surely nothing like what's happening on twitch for instance). There's a few rare exceptions like the paradox guy but Skyrim modding has not seen much donation at all, or if it has those people don't seem to have bothered to come forward at all.
People are used to just getting mods, for how often they're downloaded they're rarely even 'liked' and extremely rarely donated to.
Again to this part of the debate I have to reiterate, if Valve are so keen to see modders paid/rewarded and like you say about one instance of 'only' $500 in 4 years above etc, why haven't THEY (Valve) donated a huge chunk of THEIR not inconsiderable personal as well as Corporate wealth into DONATIONS already then, or even HIRED the best modders already? I'm sure no one would try to suggest THEY of all people couldn't afford to donate some cash to a cause they think and are so vocal about and is so deserving after all, I say that to all the pro-paid mods people too. Where was ones money if one cared so much? Why was the donations in that instance only $500 over 4 years? A case of hypocrisy perhaps? Again I must add, it appears it's a great idea to pay modders from them, just not with THEIR money.
p.s. Just to get in before anyone tries to claim I'm being greedy and 'don't want to pay' I already have paid, into Steam, part of the wealth they already have comes from my purchases and the purchases and money paid in by probably EVERY Steam user.
Do you believe that the location and game doesnt affect donations?
Let's compare to skins for dota 2 and skyrim mods.
Skyrim is a singleplayer experience that eventually dies out and you really don't have much going for it later.
Dota just like any other moba, or alternativly mmo, is a multiplayer game, and they involve pvp, and pvp involves longetivity. Put microtransaction mods with donations on an mmo site: Donate whatever you feel like for this modder to make one of the voted decorative armorsets!
Or respectivly for Dota 2: Donate and vote for one of these 3 armorsets to be made for (insert hero here)"
You would be surprised of the moneydifference.
Do you know LoL pays modders to make skins? Do you know how much money LoL makes from it? With a small userbase like that...right?
I believe donations have such crap numbers due to crappy interface and not fans being ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Valve could streamline the process with steams reach, without taking any cuts or donating their cut to charity.
A donation from a corporation by Valve to a mod maker that is making mods that violate copyright would expose Valve to legal action for supporting copyright infringement.
Hiring the best modders is something they probably do do, after all mods can be used as portfolio pieces should they want to work for Valve. Of course they'd have to move to where Valve's office is which would be a deal breaker for a lot of modders (as they live and like to live elsewhere).
I am one of the pro-paid mods. And I'll repeat again (as I have already said this once in this topic). I will never donate to a mod. If you value your work for free that is what you will get for it. If you charge for your mod I'll buy it if I consider it worth the money (like I would about 6 RimWorld mods, and half a dozen X-COM 2 mods as well).
Incidentally this is the reason that I don't make mods (even though I have the programming ability to do so, although not the art ability :) ). It's not worth my time to put in such work if I can't get paid for it. I'll stick to Unity Asset Store programming assets, and working (slowly) on my own game in my spare time as both of those I can get paid for.
Secondly, I'm not sure why a modder who can sell mods and 'work' for Valve from home as it is, couldn't be hired and work from home anyhow, they probably do all have 'an internets' surely? Also, do the people modding for Dota 2 etc travel to the 'office' to mod that game en masse? Also if you want to work and do have to go where the work is but don't want to leave home to do it, you obviously don't need or want the work that much after all. These are 'real world' issues after all.
Thirdly, 'value' if you think your mods are worth nothing becasue you receive no money for them, that's your personal opinion of them, I'm sure many people find great valure in mods, that modders have created and shared freely, especially the great work done by some modders repairing and making games functional in instances where they previously were not for many appreciative users, often down to lazy, inept Developers, the sort of Developers who would benefit from hiring some talented Modders who can do the job properly in fact. I suppose it depends on ones personal definition of 'value' though.
Fourthly, I wish you good luck with your game Development and hope you do put out a good game and it does do well for you.
Along with this is a mix of rules on how commission based roles work (if you just wanted to translate the current payment model over as is).
Meanwhile the regulations when it comes to operating a consignment store (where people provide you their product, you sell it for them and pass them over the funds for it) are far less complicated and usually have clauses that allow you to use your local states laws exclusively no matter where your suppliers or clients are from.
I'm not saying this would be by any means the only (or even primary) reason why Valve wouldn't do it but I think you'd agree it's a pretty good reason to want to stay as far away from that particularly legal minefield as possible.
As for thirdly, I know everyone says they do a lot of work making games functional but I have never actually used a mod for that (I run Skyrim for example completely unmodded in spite of the fact most people say it's a mass of unplayable bugs in that state). I use mods to add new content to games I already enjoy. I get a lot of additional hours of playability out of it hence why I would be willing to part with money for those mods. But I'm not going to donate to someone. Hence why I want paid mods so they'll actually get some of my money for their definite hard work (should they want it). It's a weird attitude I know, but I honestly can't bring myself to pay someone for something they are providing for free, even if I would willingly pay for it if they asked for the money upfront.
Thanks for the good wishes. Hopefully it'll turn out how I want it to. But game development is crazy competitive and lets be honest having a good game doesn't mean you'll sell anything. The market is extremely subjective.
Oh I forgot to mention if anyone had a clue that Gabe himself donated to a modder (for something copyrighted) he'd be hit with a lawsuit so fast your head would spin. Unlike someone like you, Gabe is worth suing think of all the millions they could ask for in damages.
As would anyone else trying to monetise it ..... so best to just leave it alone .
@Darren; Maybe in the USA, it is a big world though and Valve covers most of the globe, food for thought there. @NathanD; And I agree in some degree with you NathanD, it perhaps is a good idea to leave it alone.
Yes, but that is only assuming it's done through the USA I'd imagine that some form of 'charity' could be run from somewhere other than the USA, where there are less or no restrictions applied to how one chooses to spend one's own money. I like to think "Where there is a will, there is a way" Assuming that is genuinely the 'way' the individual wants it to go, there is also the option of Valve just leaving this well alone, but I think the stench of more 'filthy lucre' is just too much for them and they just don't have the will to be able to resist, just another slice (and a big one at that) of the pie, then another slice, then another....etc, ad nauseum. And I'm afraid because of this, my stance is ever so slightly starting to move towards the anti-paid mods (in Valves current manner) stance, I perceive far too many cons outweighing the pro's so far, including the somewhat, in my opinion, irrational arguments, blatant attempts at spin doctoring of facts and waffle presented presented by the pro side by and large, not that I am suggesting that is in any way coming from your good self, you have been perfectly candid and put your position across fairly and decently.
Maybe if donating was made more publicly visible and accessible, you'd find more people making donations.
At any rate modding has basically already been killed by paid mods. Valve and the developers aren't going to stop now. It's pretty much EXACTLY the same thing that happened with matchmaking...
Back when developers introduced the concept of matchmaking, the vast majority of gamers everywhere hated it with a passion. Yet a very very small, and very very vocal minority argued in support of it. Over time as more and more games were made with matchmaking, those opposing it just gave up and stopped playing matchmaking based titles altogether. These days games that used to have 100,000-150,000+ players daily via server browsers, struggle to reach 5,000-10,000 players daily via matchmaking.
If paid mods had been a thing when Skyrim was launched, then in order to experience it with 250+ mods it would cost a bare minimum of $300. Arguing in support of $300 (minimum!) for a single game is insanity.
In the future playing a fully modded game will be something that only the rich will be able to experience.
Yes, you did agree, see above. You quoted and agreed with Lamont with Valve/Steam giving the money to the modders. I cannot help if you cannot read. The only one making excuses is you for not understanding what you agreed to. I keep showing you, yet you keep denying the true facts. The 5 words in the quote you agreed to are about Valve/Steam using their money to give to the modders.
Fact, no one is saying that anyone has to buy mods. Fact, people are advocating that allowing people to do so will not hurt modding as it can be seen that it has not hurt modding at all for other games.
Keep mods on Steam as they are.
Leave "paidware" or "paid mods" or whatever you want to call it outside of Steam.
There is enough ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ on Steam as it is.
If a modder wants a stream of revenue from a mod, they can make a deal with the appropriate developer/publisher (to sell as DLC) or release a standalone game (again, by making a deal with the dev/pub).
Otherwise, donations should suffice.