The use of weapons

[LEXA-SHMEL]

Why are there firearms in the game? I decided to use it in case of detention of the violator in a car, when he tried to hide, shot at the car itself, the shift ended..Should I shoot birds with it or just scare the NPCs?? Is it only in the movies that they shoot at a fugitive? It's crazy..

[Saviorself]

I did some research, and in the US, only 27% of Police Officers fire their gun in the field in their career.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2017/02/08/a-closer-look-at-police-officers-who-have-fired-their-weapon-on-duty/

[Djsupernick]

Originally posted by nohopeforsome:

Originally posted by Reverend0120:

Well... attempted vehicular manslaughter/homicide is most certainly a form of NPC action justifying deadly force. When I confront someone in the midst of carjacking and they drive at me, I feel like shooting out their tires is perfectly justified. Same thing when stopping a runaway driver on the highway who is banging into cars left and right but never falls for pit maneuvers or road blocks.1 Yet, even when the gun isn't discharged and the NPC surrenders, I am penalized CP points for pointing my service firearm at a suspect for no justifiable reason. I guess self-preservation isn't justifiable.

But the scenario you've described isn't self defence. If a car is coming at you, you have to move. Shooting the tyres after it has moved is not defending yourself and is not a safe way to stop a car given the accuracy needed for the shot, the danger presented if you shoot the wrong part of the car or if the bullet ricochets off and hits somebody else. Plus, if a car is moving away from you, you can't call it defensive as it's not coming at you.

If you shoot a car coming at you, you're still likely going to end up hit by the car so it makes no sense to do that. Move, call it in and chase if you're able to.

Same for the driver who is on the road. You have other measures to stop them. PIT move or spikes will work if done right, once they are stopped you should be approaching with a taser. If you have a taser and they suddenly move, even if you shoot as a reflex the worst is they are shocked. If you've got your gun you've likely shot an unarmed criminal.

Modern policing is focused on less deadly force than ever and it's a positive thing that this game see's that. The only thing you hear about police and law enforcement is when we get it wrong and somebody is hurt or dies and often we see out of context clips, although the more high profile cases have shown all the evidence and have shown law enforcement failures. But 98 times out of 100 when you deescalate or use non lethal methods to stop a crime, the public doesn't know about it. That's why I'd regard this game as a decent simulation of a day to day shift. Most of the time it's just routine and not all about using a gun.

Originally posted by LEXA:

so I didn't shoot at a person, but at a vehicle. Although if you think that cars are also a "living being", then everything is clear.

You've no legal reason to shoot, even if the target was the car. Once you discharge your weapon you have no way of knowing what will happen as a result of that. Unless you're in an immediate threat to life situation or somebody else is in an immediate threat to life situation (IE your target is armed and you believe they are going to shoot within seconds) then you don't have a reason to shoot. None of this is in game yet and so the gun is just to stop people if needed, although the taser works so much better.

Originally posted by Djsupernick:

and I think u aren’t rewarded for self defense since this game take realism and throws it out the window
there’s no realism whatsoever

It's this kind of comment that gets me really. How many "patrol officers" as the game calls them, regular police who are just doing the day to day beat work are out there in shootouts? How many times are you getting police shoot outs in your local area per day? How many times are you not able to cross a street because a police officer has shot somebody unarmed for a small crime? I get America seems to have issues with this but all jokes aside those circumstances are few and far between. In the UK it doesn't happen because we are unarmed but still, it's just not something that comes up daily. I'd bet most officers in America end up with similar situations, maybe you need it once in a blue moon. But to say it's not realistic because you're not shooting people every shift is so dumb.

well think about it in the police academy y do u think they get trained on using their weapons
such as a taser
a gun(Glock pistol or any gun)
and the many rifles and shotguns(They have a non lethal shotgun called a beanbag shotgun)
they use in their shifts
even a baton if they don’t have a taser or a weapon

[JediArchiveGuardian]

I think make a SWAT expansion which is optional content. Put a new area in and make it normal and swat calls with a vehicle for swat missions and add lethal and non lethal swat related weaponry as tools in the swat vehicle lethal weapons and non-lethal I.E. Pepperball, rubber bullets, tazer etc and make all these tools only able to be used in swat calls and swat calls only in the new map area make regulations to control when lethal vs non lethal is justified and then outside of swat the expansion adds specific guidelines where if only X,Y,Z occurs in a non swat call with beyond reasonable doubt an officer or civilian is at risk of terminal danger would the duty weapon be okay to fire and ending the shift like it does now if discharge is considered unwarranted and add a few rare ways this could occur to all officers who buy the swat pack even if they dont want to use the other area or do swat calls they still get content and this way only those who desire the content get it and those who dont want it can play the game without it. It would allow people to choose if they want a simulation as close to reality as possible then statistically officers will either be in a close call to having to brandish and fire their duty weapon or have had to discharge it and those who want that experience can buy the expansion and those who do not dont buy the expansion P.S. would on the swat area give the chance to add a gun range both for the duty weapon and all weapons any officer may have to use to get people sharper at their use since its not been used in game up till when/if it is finally added a way to hone its mechanics if its ever made usable would be a good idea to prevent officers hitting a wrong target or etc. these are just my thoughts and random suggestions on one way it could be added and give both those who want its use permitted and not to get what they want.

[GrazyWorld]

It is the policy of the Department of Justice to value and preserve human life. Officers may use only the force that is objectively reasonable to effectively gain control of an incident, while protecting the safety of the officer and others, in keeping with the standards set forth in Graham v. Connor, 490 U.S. 386 (1989). Officers may use force only when no reasonably effective, safe, and feasible alternative appears to exist and may use only the level of force that a reasonable officer on the scene would use under the same or similar circumstances.

As the Supreme Court stated in Graham: The decision to use force "requires careful attention to the facts and circumstances of each particular case, including the severity of the crime at issue, whether the suspect poses an immediate threat to the safety of the officer or others, and whether [the suspect] is actively resisting arrest or attempting to evade arrest by flight." Id at 396. "The calculus of reasonableness must embody allowance for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second judgments—in circumstances that are tense, uncertain, and rapidly evolving—about the amount of force that is necessary in a particular situation." Id at 396-97. In addition, "[t]he 'reasonableness' of a particular use of force must be judged from the perspective of a reasonable officer on the scene, rather than with the 20/20 vision of hindsight." Id at 397. "[T]he question is whether the officers' actions are 'objectively reasonable' in light of the facts and circumstances confronting them." Id

This Department-wide policy emphasizes core principles and training standards for the DOJ law enforcement component agencies, which have updated their individual use of force training programs regularly.

This is in all untited states of America also in the game just to be clear

[GrazyWorld]

Allright now for the game, cause you guys think it's a GTA 5 game or something and that's not the case. just to be clear.
When you see a car thief, don't run at them, just wait and observe the crime happen. then drive after it and stop the car, it might flee it might stop depends.
If you stop it you tell them they are stopped because the computer says it's stolen, this you find in background checks. then ask there ID then let them get out, now be ready because they will flee or try too so before you doing this sellect your tasegun so when they flee you can aim and fire. or just try to catch them your choise. Hope this will clear up things.

Then we have the pit manurve, there dazed and won't get out out on there own, now you are aloud to aim your gun at them ONLY AIM. when they are on the ground you cuuf them and stuff them.

Also when you pull over a driver first check the licence plate in your data base, allways compare it with the ID this is where sometimes the car is reported stolen and that doesn't allways show on the ID. Just double check the facts, and yes sometimes the game says your a lier there was no gun or switchblade in the car and you lose points. Thought they fixed it but apperently not. But overtime they will fix the issue. So hope this helps you guys out a bit.

[MishaTX]

Originally posted by nohopeforsome:

Originally posted by Reverend0120:

Well... attempted vehicular manslaughter/homicide is most certainly a form of NPC action justifying deadly force. When I confront someone in the midst of carjacking and they drive at me, I feel like shooting out their tires is perfectly justified. Same thing when stopping a runaway driver on the highway who is banging into cars left and right but never falls for pit maneuvers or road blocks.1 Yet, even when the gun isn't discharged and the NPC surrenders, I am penalized CP points for pointing my service firearm at a suspect for no justifiable reason. I guess self-preservation isn't justifiable.

But the scenario you've described isn't self defence. If a car is coming at you, you have to move. Shooting the tyres after it has moved is not defending yourself and is not a safe way to stop a car given the accuracy needed for the shot, the danger presented if you shoot the wrong part of the car or if the bullet ricochets off and hits somebody else. Plus, if a car is moving away from you, you can't call it defensive as it's not coming at you.

If you shoot a car coming at you, you're still likely going to end up hit by the car so it makes no sense to do that. Move, call it in and chase if you're able to.

Same for the driver who is on the road. You have other measures to stop them. PIT move or spikes will work if done right, once they are stopped you should be approaching with a taser. If you have a taser and they suddenly move, even if you shoot as a reflex the worst is they are shocked. If you've got your gun you've likely shot an unarmed criminal.

Modern policing is focused on less deadly force than ever and it's a positive thing that this game see's that. The only thing you hear about police and law enforcement is when we get it wrong and somebody is hurt or dies and often we see out of context clips, although the more high profile cases have shown all the evidence and have shown law enforcement failures. But 98 times out of 100 when you deescalate or use non lethal methods to stop a crime, the public doesn't know about it. That's why I'd regard this game as a decent simulation of a day to day shift. Most of the time it's just routine and not all about using a gun.

Originally posted by LEXA:

so I didn't shoot at a person, but at a vehicle. Although if you think that cars are also a "living being", then everything is clear.

You've no legal reason to shoot, even if the target was the car. Once you discharge your weapon you have no way of knowing what will happen as a result of that. Unless you're in an immediate threat to life situation or somebody else is in an immediate threat to life situation (IE your target is armed and you believe they are going to shoot within seconds) then you don't have a reason to shoot. None of this is in game yet and so the gun is just to stop people if needed, although the taser works so much better.

Originally posted by Djsupernick:

and I think u aren’t rewarded for self defense since this game take realism and throws it out the window
there’s no realism whatsoever

It's this kind of comment that gets me really. How many "patrol officers" as the game calls them, regular police who are just doing the day to day beat work are out there in shootouts? How many times are you getting police shoot outs in your local area per day? How many times are you not able to cross a street because a police officer has shot somebody unarmed for a small crime? I get America seems to have issues with this but all jokes aside those circumstances are few and far between. In the UK it doesn't happen because we are unarmed but still, it's just not something that comes up daily. I'd bet most officers in America end up with similar situations, maybe you need it once in a blue moon. But to say it's not realistic because you're not shooting people every shift is so dumb.

Thank you! (Although law enforcement here in the US isn't remotely as trigger happy as YouTube would have you believe. :-))

The sheer number of pig ignorant posters complaining that the game is somehow "unrealistic" because it doesn't play like CS:GO never cases to amaze me.

[JediArchiveGuardian]

378 Officers Shot in the Line of Duty in 2023

https://fop.net/2024/01/378-officers-shot-in-the-line-of-duty-in-2023/

2024 expected to surpass that

https://www.newsnationnow.com/crime/2024-on-pace-record-police-officers-shot-fop-report/

On average, police in the United States shoot and kill more than 1,000 people every year, according to an ongoing analysis by The Washington Post.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/investigations/police-shootings-database/

[JediArchiveGuardian]

Acting like officers are not clearly and presently taking on a hazardous job where its not nearly as rare as you make it seem that their lives are in danger, and lethal force in a split second determines if they get home when it happens.