Inquiry ... 😋

[Mommy💋LipStick]

... Is it common for a 4070 Ti gpu to loose like 30 - 40 % base fps when using LS3beta 🤯?
My base fps of 110 drops down to like 70 ish ..

And lowering multiplier to changing scaler to toggle performance mode doesn't change a thing about this ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ..

Oh well, using it for unoptimized single players anyway.. and i still have an overal base of 70 - 80 at 1440p / epic settings..

I know it's a bit of trade off.. Loose xx real frames to gain XX fake frames..

But eh.. I just wish LS3 wasn't so fps hungry 😋 ..

[Spook]

Mommy💋LipStick eredeti hozzászólása:

...

AGP?

[Mommy💋LipStick]

Spook eredeti hozzászólása:

Mommy💋LipStick eredeti hozzászólása:

...

AGP?

err.. Accelerated Graphics Port ... NO .. mommy goes FULL THROTTLE though PCIE (Peripheral Component Interconnect Express) Oh YEAH 😎

[the$silver]

so using lsfg 3.0 in the stable version doesn't give you problems?

maybe try re-install the software, the slider could be broken... for me it works (beta version lsfg 3.0) so i belive it's a cliet side problem. Also try to measure your native 1% low fps, and try to lock the fps a bit lower than those (if you have 90 base fps try to lock fps to 65-80) and see what works for you.

You can also try to disable per app optimisations (like forced vsync, anti aliasing method ecc... ) from the nvidia app or control panel.

Another thing, maybe not true for everyone, but lossless scaling has better performance on amd cards.

I use lsfg 3.0 x3 @65% res scale in the last of us, with a base frame of 40, but i can achieve 45-50 fps on native, so if you do the math it's a 10% difference.

try to lower the res scale, if the slider doesn't do anything try to use lsfg 3.0 in the stable version, and if again this doesn't work try to delete the settings folder in appdata (C:\Users\*your username*\AppData\Local\Lossless Scaling), maybe before you do it get a backup of the settings.

[DaddyEcho69]

If your GPU is already utilized to the max, there's no room for LS to work with so your frames drop. Its perfectly normal. You should set it to the lowest stable framerate you're getting.

For example my GPU is only about 85% utilized in any game, mostly due to my CPU bottleneck, so in most games LS doesn't affect the base framerate at all.

[Mommy💋LipStick]

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

so using lsfg 3.0 in the stable version doesn't give you problems?

No problem👌 at all... A matter a fact, it looks way better than LSF 2.4 (ie: noise) .

And again... i have posted the results ↓

https://youtu.be/SRArXQCucWQ

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

maybe try re-install the software, the slider could be broken... for me it works (beta version lsfg 3.0) so i belive it's a cliet side problem. Also try to measure your native 1% low fps, and try to lock the fps a bit lower than those (if you have 90 base fps try to lock fps to 65-80) and see what works for you.

I asume you are refering to the Scaler slider at the left side underneat LSFG .. right?
Doesn't seem to do a thing.. And if that is what i think it is, i would guess that should be the subsitute for DRS in games .. right?

But it looks like it doesn't do much relative to fps performance..
But i shouldn't need that anyway with an gpu like an 4070ti .. Also i prefer balanced/quality performance. And using DRS tends to wurse image quality on an 1440p monitor .. atleast from where iam sitting ..

Also and confirmed.. For the SMOOTHEST game experience i've learned to cap FPS to the minimum fps in game at a driver level ..

I do that especially with poor optimized games.. and/or console PORTS 😉.

THAT ☝️😀 is a dead giveaway ..... 🤭

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

You can also try to disable per app optimisations (like forced vsync, anti aliasing method ecc... ) from the nvidia app or control panel.

I guess, vsync on a driver level is superior to the V-sync toggle implemented in games ..
It's my experience that vsync on a driver level only is kicked in, when the monitor its lowest / maximum refresh rate is reached ..

Whereas Vsync toggled ingame, is always active .. 😏 !!

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

Another thing, maybe not true for everyone, but lossless scaling has better performance on amd cards.

..I still have an old RX480 laying around here somewhere .. 😫

DaddyEcho69 eredeti hozzászólása:

If your GPU is already utilized to the max, there's no room for LS to work with so your frames drop. Its perfectly normal. You should set it to the lowest stable framerate you're getting.

For example my GPU is only about 85% utilized in any game, mostly due to my CPU bottleneck, so in most games LS doesn't affect the base framerate at all.

I have thought of that scenario too.. And when my gpu is like utilized for only 65 - 70% (lower ingame settings) i still see the massive fps drop when enabling LS3 FG ..

But ill play with that some more ..

Now, let me be clear on this... When using LS NIS scaler, i maintain aLL of my base FPS , NO sacrifices are made 😏👌

[the$silver]

the resolution scale is not like DSR, it basically generate a frame from an upscaled version of an original downscaled frame (if you play at 1440p, setting lower res scale will input a 1080p frame, upscale it and then generate a frame from that), i use a 80% res scale on basically all my profiles, and the quality does not drop significantly enough for me to notice, but milage may vary.

vsync in game caps your fps at the maximum refresh rate, so try disabling that, even if it shouldn't be an issue.

The "ls works better on amd cards" is obviously true only with similar performance cards.

it's very strange that you get a performance hit like that (65-70%) and still drop fps. Try measuring the gpu utilization when the LS is ENABLED and if it touches 98-100%, well there is your problem.

if nothing answer the question maybe its the game problem? if you can do some testing on other games maybe you find the problem... i use it on the last of us, hell let loose euro truck simulator 2, a plague tale requiem and sea of thieves, if you need i will tell you my results.

[Mommy💋LipStick]

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

the resolution scale is not like DSR, it basically generate a frame from an upscaled version of an original downscaled frame (if you play at 1440p, setting lower res scale will input a 1080p frame, upscale it and then generate a frame from that), i use a 80% res scale on basically all my profiles, and the quality does not drop significantly enough for me to notice, but milage may vary.

Like you described here, it very much seems to function like DRS .. (not DSR .. what or who is that anyway 😏 ?)

I mean , the defenition is pretty much described in the naming of it .. no? ie: Dynamic Resolution Scaling .. Res ↑ .. Res ↓ ..

Unless you actually meant to say, it actually has nothing to do whit resolution scaling, but everything with frames generated .. But then again, you can't have one whitout the other .. right? I mean, the frames (by its very nature) must have a given resolution you choose/pick no ?

Anyhow..

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

vsync in game caps your fps at the maximum refresh rate, so try disabling that, even if it shouldn't be an issue.

About that, from what i have read and discovered..; Vsync turned on at a gpu driver level (nvidia 3D center) will help stabilize Fps BELOW LFC (G-sync) / Low 1% / Min fps range too ... whereas vsync ingame only helps/caps fps at max refresh rate..

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

it's very strange that you get a performance hit like that (65-70%) and still drop fps. Try measuring the gpu utilization when the LS is ENABLED and if it touches 98-100%, well there is your problem.

That's exactly what is baffling... To lower gpu utilization you can either lower ingame settings, or cap fps...

Here's the thing... when i disable LS .. my game runs at 100% gpu & 120 Fps (game is fps capped) ..

But here's the kicker.. When i enable LS my GPU utilize suddenly only but 87% ... FPS dropped from a solid 120fps to 70 - 80 🤯 at the VERY SAME ingame graphics settings though !?

[the$silver]

sorry for not explining better, but dynamic resolution scaling is different than the res slider in lossless scaling, like the name suggest dynamic resolution scaling helps maintaining a certain fps cap by adjusting the resolution of the game to mitigate fps drops, instead, the lossless scaling one just render a lower resolution frame and then upscale it, so it performs better and leaves a higher gpu headroom.

it really sounds like a bad frame pacing, have you tried using rtss to see the frame time graph? if it's really bad it could be the issue.

also, what is your monitor's refresh rate? i don't wanna sound insistent but if you have let's say a 144 hz monitor, you may be running into a lossless scaling vsync problem, but idk it's really strange.

watch out for recording softwares / overlays / instant replay, because maybe they are interfeering with the frame gen, but to be sure i would try the software in another game, to rule out the game's fault.

[Gizzmoe]

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

the lossless scaling one just render a lower resolution frame and then upscale it, so it performs better and leaves a higher gpu headroom.

The LS resolution scale only lowers the resolution of the motion data that the frame generator gets for processing, LSFG always renders at native window resolution, there's no image upscaling.

[Dyna]

So FFIV dynamic resolution is disabled with 1440 running 1080 upscaled with DLSS at minimum and maximum set at 69% in the game options.

I haven't played any of the Final Fantasy games, but i saw how bad it ran on a 5090 with a 9800x3d already. So a completely smooth game experience might not be possible right now.

This game look very rough on the CPU also and if it throttles then the GPU% is likely taking a hit. If Dynamic resolution is not disabled then the VRAM usage might increase and decrease constantly. Game know it is a 12GB card but is not taking LS into account and cannot use all of the system. And that combined with a very unoptimized game engine smells like trouble.

How is the game performing on low settings with LS running? And is the GPU usage 100% before LS is even enabled.

That game needs many pathes.

[the$silver]

Gizzmoe eredeti hozzászólása:

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

the lossless scaling one just render a lower resolution frame and then upscale it, so it performs better and leaves a higher gpu headroom.

The LS resolution scale only lowers the resolution of the motion data that the frame generator gets for processing, LSFG always renders at native window resolution, there's no image upscaling.

thx didn't know that, sorry for the misinformation

[Mommy💋LipStick]

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

sorry for not explining better, but dynamic resolution scaling is different than the res slider in lossless scaling, like the name suggest dynamic resolution scaling helps maintaining a certain fps cap by adjusting the resolution of the game to mitigate fps drops, instead, the lossless scaling one just render a lower resolution frame and then upscale it, so it performs better and leaves a higher gpu headroom.

You would think so.. But all it does for me, is wursen the Image Quality when using the slider.. So i keep it at 100%.. I have a good amount of fps anyhow.. no need to hunt for an fps boost.. just want stable fps / frametimes.. and cleaner crisp sharp image..

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

it really sounds like a bad frame pacing, have you tried using rtss to see the frame time graph? if it's really bad it could be the issue.

Bad game coding tends to cause that realy..! But in my experience, when applying driver fps cap to 1%lows/Min fps + ls, i have a Criminal Smooth --------- frametime graph 😙👌 for 95% of the time.. in bad optimized games/ports.. I have noticed..

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

also, what is your monitor's refresh rate? i don't wanna sound insistent but if you have let's say a 144 hz monitor, you may be running into a lossless scaling vsync problem, but idk it's really strange.

Does that ↑ even matter if you play an 60 - 120fps capped game on a 144hz screen ?
Anyway, my monitor is an 240 / 260 (OC) 2K QD-IPS HDR600 (Gsync & Freesync Premium) screen , and i luv the image quality .. especialy the HDR , very bright white/black detailed scenes 😘👌

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

watch out for recording softwares / overlays / instant replay, because maybe they are interfeering with the frame gen, but to be sure i would try the software in another game, to rule out the game's fault.

I have thought of that too.. and i use Nvidia's app for video recording → using overlay.. And i don't see any difference weither Overlay is enabled Or Disabled ...

Watch this clip and notice the top left screen (constant 60fps / Base fps while recording 😉) .. ↓
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRArXQCucWQ

Gizzmoe eredeti hozzászólása:

the$silver eredeti hozzászólása:

the lossless scaling one just render a lower resolution frame and then upscale it, so it performs better and leaves a higher gpu headroom.

The LS resolution scale only lowers the resolution of the motion data that the frame generator gets for processing, LSFG always renders at native window resolution, there's no image upscaling.

That's my experience and impression as well ...

Dyna eredeti hozzászólása:

So FFIV dynamic resolution is disabled with 1440 running 1080 upscaled with DLSS at minimum and maximum set at 69% in the game options.

I haven't played any of the Final Fantasy games, but i saw how bad it ran on a 5090 with a 9800x3d already. So a completely smooth game experience might not be possible right now.

This game look very rough on the CPU also and if it throttles then the GPU% is likely taking a hit. If Dynamic resolution is not disabled then the VRAM usage might increase and decrease constantly. Game know it is a 12GB card but is not taking LS into account and cannot use all of the system. And that combined with a very unoptimized game engine smells like trouble.

How is the game performing on low settings with LS running? And is the GPU usage 100% before LS is even enabled.

That game needs many pathes.

The game FFVII Rebirth uses like slightly over 9GB in my case @1440p / Max settings / 100% MIn/Max resolution ... And it runs just fine with the launch date version (Do Not UPDATe to first patch !)

About Vram / overal cpu/gpu usage check this 😉
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgUF7IvBftY

EDIT : oh and in this last tube ↑ , LS + FG x3 is enabled .. and used on an Uv/Oc 4070Ti..
When i OC my gpu its Core speed to 3.0 GHZ and Mem to 12000 Mhz , i get like an whooping 10% fps boost , like 94 → 106 - 107 ish (when LS disabled) 😉

[the$silver]

have you tried, just because i'm running out of ideas, to use WGC as Capture API? maybe in this game that's the problem, but anyway, try lossless on other games with the same settings as this and see if the gpu usage is still the same.

[Dyna]

I don't see any performance issues worth wasting hours of troubleshooting on this title. That game is running fine. My ears hurt after listening to that speaker yapping already lol.

Just complete the game and increase that mouse sensitivity x3 minimum so you don't have to lift the mouse 3 times to make a 180.

Sorry i cannot be more helpful. But i don't own the game or plan on playing it. This is not a game that i think you need to use LS on. My best guess is that it is just too unoptimized to bother with and CPU requirements is just another Dragon's Dogma 2 over again.

Set it on 120 in game option and lock the fps to 70 or less to keep FPS stable in driver and complete it. If you want LS lock at 60 or 72 and x2 it at 69% scaling. Without upscaler i bet the card will be in the 50's at times with x4.

14gb usage 1440 ultra not epic which i guess is more demanding. I don't think 12 is cutting it for Ultra and above.

Average FPS 1440p 77 (4080) FPS you should lock the 4070 below that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7csXv6lt3ZA&t=855s

That is my best suggestion.

[Sephiroth Super]

Mine did the same, LOCK THE FPS to 51FPS on the nvidia panel and enable losslessscaling