Idle Wizard

Idle Wizard

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T2-Classes - safe choices (Archon details inside)
Hi Mates and Matines,

I just passed e280 with exorcist and will soon unlock the T2-Classes.

In terms of items, decisions now tend to have a long term influence on my game plan. I got my shoulder, Grips, Lucky Amulet legendary, the rings soon.

So I want to start to work on the BIC-items for the T2 I will play later on. But which one makes the most sense?

I really dont find any deep discussions about the best T2 strategy.

Shall I pick one and stick to it? Do some classes only work above e350 (or whatever)?
Is Archon or Desolator or whatever broadly seen as the 'best' or the most fun to play? Which one is the most easy one to play, the fastest one to gain mana?

I'd be really grateful if you could share your experience how to proceed from e300.

Greetings,
Ping
Last edited by Ping the Dude; Jun 7, 2019 @ 2:14pm
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Showing 1-15 of 34 comments
Wolflyte May 26, 2019 @ 7:05am 
In last patch T2 classes have been rebalanced, so they all are on the similar pace, at least this is what I've seen on discord. When you get to e300 mysts, just unlock them all and stick with the one you will find most fun for you.

For those more specific questions I can just tell you what I heard from Discord, becouse I've been focusing solely on Archon (from e300 to e380). Druid is easiest to play, Oni is so complicated that needs macro and Desolator is slightly better than others. Those are most common things I hear, idk if they are true.
Ping the Dude May 26, 2019 @ 10:12am 
Thanks for your thoughts, Mate. Helping me a lot.

I'd definitely play them all to find the most fun one. But I can imagine many of the T2 are only 'fun', when you have the correct items on legendary. How to make sure, I don't get stuck with a class just because I already finished 3 legendary and want to avoid starting at zero trying to get a new class effective.

I know this sounds maybe a little academic, but i just want to set my goals now and not when its too late.
Wolflyte May 26, 2019 @ 10:41am 
Right now I'm at e380 as I mentioned in last post and my gear is.... pet exp gear is 5/13, void mana 1/13 and burst gear is 7/13 at legendary, plus some unique items, becouse it was faster to enchant then, rather than upgrading BiS gear. So as you can see I'm far of, but still managed to get quite far from e300. 3 legendary items isn't much to be honest.

Most important thing is to not getting discouraged by the profits you're making with T2 classes, they are more of a growers that T1s are. Really, just pick what you want, it is better to invest in class you want to play rather than the one which can benefit the most from those 3 legendaries.

PS. I just got info that one Heretic's spell doesn't work properly, so maybe it would be good idea to not play as him until 0.82.
John Baller May 26, 2019 @ 12:23pm 
I am at e500 and have been using Oni since about e370. I got up to e370 before the last update using Heretic and Desolator, both of which made pretty fast progress at the time without very good gear (Desolator was pretty broken in that version though). The Desolator supposedly still makes some of the best gains in v0.81, but i haven't tried it at all yet, since I had to focus all my gear exclusively on Oni to get him maxed out.

Oni, Shaman, and to some extent Temporalist benefit from macroing to build up persistent spell casts. If you don't want to macro you may want to pick a different class. Oni relies the most on macroing.

Archon has the best persistent spell build up and can use Simulacrum (if not going for profit) and bat staff or Enchanting Membrane while building up JMS. Oni also grinds Simulacrum the whole time.

It looks to me like Oni should have the highest end game power at the moment, but he requires a lot of macroing, a complex burst, and a lot of gear (he needs 45-50 items, both weapons and Ceaseless Hunger need to be legendary ASAP). Oni has the best endgame potential in my view, because of all the gear he needs. He uses gear for VT VM buildup, Hungerer leveling (pet exp^0.45-->profit), burst, and gets minor bonuses from Interrogator leveling gear, and buildup gear. This means each enchant level higher you get all your gear gives you ~e1 more mystery per run. I can get about e3 mysteries per day run with average level 7 gear at e500 mysteries using Oni (my Temper the Steel is at 205% or 5.3e7 casts).

Oni needs >100% on TTS before he really starts working well, so he has a bit of a hurdle to get over before using him. If done during week of persistence, you can get 100% in ~4 days of macroing. Past 150%, TTS only builds up profits at casts^0.2, so not much is gained past this point.

If you want something simpler I would go with Shaman, Archon, or Desolator though. Desolator looks to have pretty similar profit to Oni from what people have posted (e5 mysteries in 2 days at e530 gear lvl 15).
Last edited by John Baller; May 26, 2019 @ 3:45pm
Jey May 26, 2019 @ 1:58pm 
Originally posted by Geralt Lupardine:
PS. I just got info that one Heretic's spell doesn't work properly, so maybe it would be good idea to not play as him until 0.82.

What? Which spell, and how does it not work properly? I haven't heard about it, and since the 0.82 is currently being made, it would be nice to fix that bug, if it exists.



Originally posted by Clownbaby:
to some extent Temporalist benefit from macroing to build up persistent spell casts. .
I'm not really convinced.
If they do, it's so marginal, it can be neglected.

Originally posted by Clownbaby:

Archon [...] can use Simulacrum

Archon himself can't use simulacrum (his pet is locked to soulstealer), and I highly doubt there is any point in building up JMS as an Arcanist before switching.



Originally posted by Clownbaby:

It looks to me like Oni should have the highest end game power at the moment

Nah Shaman is still overpowered.


Originally posted by Clownbaby:

If you want something simpler I would go with [...] Archon
I can't speak for Desolator (I never liked Alchemist, and Desolator looks too much like Alchemist for me to play), but Archon isn't really "simple" (or Temporalist is too).
He has quite a few buildup phases and requires a lot of gear (specifically to level up correctly Soulstealer).
John Baller May 26, 2019 @ 4:24pm 
Originally posted by Iffu:
Originally posted by Clownbaby:
to some extent Temporalist benefit from macroing to build up persistent spell casts. .
I'm not really convinced.
If they do, it's so marginal, it can be neglected.

Yeah it only help a little bit for Temporalist and has some issues when skipping time and macroing.

Originally posted by Iffu:
Originally posted by Clownbaby:

Archon [...] can use Simulacrum

Archon himself can't use simulacrum (his pet is locked to soulstealer), and I highly doubt there is any point in building up JMS as an Arcanist before switching.

It can help if you need important gear like offhand items, week of dust, or for paragons.

Originally posted by Iffu:
Originally posted by Clownbaby:

It looks to me like Oni should have the highest end game power at the moment

Nah Shaman is still overpowered.

What kind of progress does the Shaman get? I never really tried him yet since I have none of his gear at legendary. She does sort of have the same kind of scaling of enchant levels as Oni. At extremely high enchant levels (I think its something like 50), Oni should become better with Risen Giant and Idle burst gear than with Hungerer, like the old Zomboni build. Past this point Oni's gear should scale substantially faster than Shaman with enchant levels, since the RG level is much higher. The good thing is then that gear becomes useful to both Shaman and Oni.

Originally posted by Iffu:
Originally posted by Clownbaby:

If you want something simpler I would go with [...] Archon
I can't speak for Desolator (I never liked Alchemist, and Desolator looks too much like Alchemist for me to play), but Archon isn't really "simple" (or Temporalist is too).
He has quite a few buildup phases and requires a lot of gear (specifically to level up correctly Soulstealer).

I just mean they are all a lot simpler than Oni, who needs to use 5 pets, 6 gear sets, every spell set, macro, and a complex timed burst.

Originally posted by Clownbaby:
I can get about e3 mysteries per day run with average level 7 gear at e500 mysteries using Oni (my Temper the Steel is at 205% or 5.3e7 casts).

I forgot to add that this is with Paragon 46.
Last edited by John Baller; May 26, 2019 @ 4:47pm
Wolflyte May 26, 2019 @ 11:09pm 
Power of Sacrifice is broken according to Hallowed King, he said that in #1e300-1e400 like 13 hours ago.
Archon is a lot simpler than Oni for sure, if you're lazy you can play with 4 spell sets (even with TA unlocked), 2 of which are just pre-burst and burst, only two for build up, so no need for macros and 3 item sets... and obviously only one pet.
Jey May 27, 2019 @ 4:12am 
Demi' is mistaken.
Power of Sacrifice was broken in the beta, it's not broken on the live version.
Ping the Dude May 27, 2019 @ 9:30am 
Thx mates, this is the best information I got on this topic!
Ping the Dude May 29, 2019 @ 3:06pm 
HI Mates, just wanted you to know, I go for Archon from e300.

1. He seems not too complicated,
2. I can use most of my epic-evo gear,
3. I've had enough of these hallowed clicks,
4. Archanist is fun, wanted to learn abolisher anyway,
5. I just let this druid/necro/liquid shadow-stuff aside.

I set the gear already on slots 7-4 and start to get all on rare to epic until reaching e300, thus using the levelling gear to reach lvl175 for paragon.

Soooo... any hints for my plan, guys?
Jey May 30, 2019 @ 1:07am 
Check the archon's guides on the wiki to know what you'll have to do to get profits with Archon, and prepare for that. :D
Wolflyte May 30, 2019 @ 1:26am 
One thing worth mentioning. Always go from common to legendary with one item, don't spread your reasources. Getting a piece of gear to legendary and enchanting it by couple first levels (up to level 5 it is stupidly cheap) gives you much better improvement than getting something from rare to epic. And when you finally get Resonator Ring to legendary, that enchanting bonuses are even better.
Ping the Dude May 30, 2019 @ 4:34am 
@iffu: surely did that first :)
@Garalt: This was the question that came to my mind just after I wrote my ideas last night. thx
John Baller May 30, 2019 @ 6:21am 
You could go for And Surpassing Them All to start off with, if you haven't yet. Then you'll also get some more buildup of JMS which makes subsequent runs grant more mysteries.

The Archon guides are quite good and comprehensive. I would just add to upgrade the batstick early on. It gives you more bats and decent profit, despite being the worst profit boosting weapon. Also, the important part of Resonator Ring is to get it to epic (legendary is only slightly better). Always give legendary items at least 1 enchant level for the Resonator Ring boost.

Once you unlock offhand items its also good to upgrade those quickly.
Last edited by John Baller; May 30, 2019 @ 6:21am
Arkhne May 30, 2019 @ 9:44am 
Originally posted by Ping the DUDE!!!!:
HI Mates, just wanted you to know, I go for Archon from e300.

1. He seems not too complicated,
2. I can use most of my epic-evo gear,
3. I've had enough of these hallowed clicks,
4. Archanist is fun, wanted to learn abolisher anyway,
5. I just let this druid/necro/liquid shadow-stuff aside.

I set the gear already on slots 7-4 and start to get all on rare to epic until reaching e300, thus using the levelling gear to reach lvl175 for paragon.

Soooo... any hints for my plan, guys?

This was where I was, except I'd learnt Abolisher for the same reasons, and had Incantation gear instead of Evocation gear. I was so tired of all the "extra baggage" of most of the classes, and missed the purity of Arcanist (Hell, my prefered early-game setup is Apprentice/Golem).

Since you're building for Archon instead of Abolisher, it's a little simpler. As with Abolisher, first priority should be pet levelling, though they both use unique exp formulae, Archon's is simplier (Character Exp and Pet Exp items, using Character Exp in all conflicting slots, except Shoulder), I'd argue that these are even more important than Burst eq, especially since they WILL outperform under-levelled (Read: Non-Legendary) Burst eq for profits. Feel free to only raise these to their highest Exp modifier level (Use the wiki) to save on dust for Burst eq.

Sadly, the best eq at high enchant levels is not really the best at low enchant levels, so sacrifices must be made one way or the other. To this end, I suggest using Amplifier+Artificer's Shoulderpads+Easymind+Chronoboost+Lucky Amulet+Resonator (Epic at first, then leave as the last burst item to legendary before moving on to Void Buildup gear) at first, adding in Eastern Blessing, Precise Wristband, Empowering Wasteguard when you can get them to Legendary.

For weapons, Bat staff is the ONLY burst weapon Archon should use. Make it a priority. In fact, the only other weapon that an Archon should ever use is Enchanting Membrane, but that is costly, and not of high priority (Level it last). Ok, and maybe one of the Incantation Enchant during Void Buildup, I haven't personally done the maths, but Cataclysm might out-perform in this regard after pet level 250, as there is more modifiers for it to apply it.

That's plenty of gear to keep you busy for a while, and can be roughly seen as in order of priority (Exp Set, First Burst Set, Bat Staff, Second Burst Set and Void Mana Build-up, as there is cross-over between Void Mana Buildup and Burst Sets, items used in both can be considered an even higher priority, equal to first burst set). Easymind Hat will ease Attribute requirements (Wisdom Perks 150 and 200 rock hard for Archon), and should thus be the first raised after unlocking all the items that you will use. Resonator boosts overall Enchant levels for significant gains, and should thus be levelled to Epic as soon as you have 3-4 Legendaries in other slots.
Last edited by Arkhne; May 30, 2019 @ 9:48am
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Date Posted: May 26, 2019 @ 5:53am
Posts: 34