Is Ancient Magic really any worse than Avada?

[Skungis]

I mean, I just don't see why shooting a beam that seemingly instantly and painlessly kills someone is considered "unforgivable" but I make people literally explode into ash (seemingly incredibly painfully) and everyone's like "woah nice teach me that".
Granted neither have any negative repercussions so it's a moot point but it's always funny how turning someone into a chicken FOREVER, scorching someone from the inside until they explode, or casting lightning down onto someone and turning them to dust gets me praise but I use an unforgivable once and people are like "Woah hey, don't use that"

[werwolfgaming]

while the ancient magic ur person possess isent known meaning even he dont know he summons lightning or any off that atleast thats what ur charachter always says. its hard to say ig they arent seen as unforgivable since they havent actually been registered as spells as no one knows how to cast them its not really possible to make a new law on something that they cant replicate. the pratical uses off bombardo would as an example be use it for excavation in mines if needed or tear down a house that has to be destroyed. incendio and them lighting stuff on fire

[Harris]

Skungis původně napsal:

Ancient Magic

Now here's the thing about it - you're pretty much the only person in Britain with such skill, maybe the whole Wizarding World even, who knows. And the only two other known users lived centuries ago and all traces of this power are well hidden.

Even though it's theoretically possible you're not the only one living with it, it was basically lying dormant until you encountered an object with traces of ancient magic. So it's pretty plausible to assume there are people with this ability that never even get to find out about it.

This makes this power super-rare and unknown. Not only does it mean its outside Ministry of Magic's gaze (you can't really make a law for something only one person can do, I think). But this also means it's unknown to the character him or herself. This is further reinforced by MC's repeated statements that he or she doesn't know if they can, at all, wield this power.

And now's an interesting theory. Ollivander tells us we have a super strong connection with our wand, our wand will learn quickly and will do stuff when it feels we need it - or something along the lines.

So maybe it's our wand that's casting those cool finishers and not us? After all, the MC can't do nonverbal magic, let alone in Hogsmeade with his or her only knowledge being Lumos, Repairo, Accio and Levioso.

This would actually answer your question. Because if it's the wand casting those things then MC is not responsible for its action. Or are they? And, at the very least, we can agree then in that case Ancient Magic is not intentional as you cannot mean to cast it. Which would disqualify it from being an Unforgivable.

[werwolfgaming]

Harris původně napsal:

Skungis původně napsal:

Ancient Magic

Now here's the thing about it - you're pretty much the only person in Britain with such skill, maybe the whole Wizarding World even, who knows. And the only two other known users lived centuries ago and all traces of this power are well hidden.

Even though it's theoretically possible you're not the only one living with it, it was basically lying dormant until you encountered an object with traces of ancient magic. So it's pretty plausible to assume there are people with this ability that never even get to find out about it.

This makes this power super-rare and unknown. Not only does it mean its outside Ministry of Magic's gaze (you can't really make a law for something only one person can do, I think). But this also means it's unknown to the character him or herself. This is further reinforced by MC's repeated statements that he or she doesn't know if they can, at all, wield this power.

And now's an interesting theory. Ollivander tells us we have a super strong connection with our wand, our wand will learn quickly and will do stuff when it feels we need it - or something along the lines.

So maybe it's our wand that's casting those cool finishers and not us? After all, the MC can't do nonverbal magic, let alone in Hogsmeade with his or her only knowledge being Lumos, Repairo, Accio and Levioso.

This would actually answer your question. Because if it's the wand casting those things then MC is not responsible for its action. Or are they? And, at the very least, we can agree then in that case Ancient Magic is not intentional as you cannot mean to cast it. Which would disqualify it from being an Unforgivable.

well the thing about the wand casting them does make sense as our charachter even says he has no idea how hes casting these ancient spells

[Baphled]

It's an interesting question. These spells are considered unforgivable when used against another human. The killing curse is weirdly the most ethical of the spells, and the one easiest to replicate using pretty much any other spell. You could make some big ol' rock float and drop it on a muggle to kill them. Or using the severing spell to cut them up. Or set them on fire. Toss some violent plant or book at them.

The curse is just a tool, but in this case the tool only has a single use. While many other spells can be used for murder, they also can be used for other things. If you wanted to get weird, you could compare it to something like gun control. If you murder someone it's bad, but if you murder them with a gun, it's unforgivable. For some reason.

Using ancient magic does feel like it's worse than some of the unforgivable curses. I feel that turning someone into a chicken forever is more unethical than painlessly killing them.

At the end of the day, it mostly comes down to the original lore being incredibly flimsy at times. Although maybe the wizarding world does focus more on actions than on how those actions are accomplished, but Harry never took a class on magical law so he got the dumbed down version where killing, torture, and mind control are bad and those three curses were just the easiest way to represent those actions.

[Skungis]

Harris původně napsal:

This would actually answer your question. Because if it's the wand casting those things then MC is not responsible for its action. Or are they? And, at the very least, we can agree then in that case Ancient Magic is not intentional as you cannot mean to cast it. Which would disqualify it from being an Unforgivable.

No it wouldn't, you guys are misunderstanding my question. I don't care about whatever lore this comes from, I'm not asking "why isn't this spell classified as unforgivable" or whatever I have 0 interest in the books. I'm asking why my friends all go "Woah cool" when I explode someone using something they don't understand (for all they know it could be illegal) but are horrified by killing using the unforgivable spells. If my friend just started screaming and made someone explode, I'd be ♥♥♥♥♥♥ terrified.

[Skungis]

Baphled původně napsal:

If you murder someone it's bad, but if you murder them with a gun, it's unforgivable. For some reason.

I was with you until you said this. Wtf are you even talking about someone murdering someone with a meat cleaver is going to be seen as less forgivable than shooting someone. Awful example fr bringing this anti gun control bs into an unrelated thread ♥♥♥♥ outta here.

[NOSCOPENOPROBLEM]

Skungis původně napsal:

Baphled původně napsal:

If you murder someone it's bad, but if you murder them with a gun, it's unforgivable. For some reason.

I was with you until you said this. Wtf are you even talking about someone murdering someone with a meat cleaver is going to be seen as less forgivable than shooting someone. Awful example fr bringing this anti gun control bs into an unrelated thread ♥♥♥♥ outta here.

How is that "anti gun control bs"?

[Harris]

Skungis původně napsal:

Wtf are you even talking about

You're walking down the street in the evening and the guy with a knife attacks you.

If you were unarmed but somehow managed to killed him, chances are you'd be fine.

If you had a gun and shot him dead, you'd likely go to jail even though your life was in danger and you were acting in self defense - because "reasonable level of self defense" is a thing.

The deed is the same, but the perception is different. Why is it different? Well, people decided so.

Skungis původně napsal:

I'm asking why my friends all go "Woah cool" when I explode someone using something they don't understand (for all they know it could be illegal) but are horrified by killing using the unforgivable spells.

Because they know that green beam will get you a room at Dementors' place and that other cool thing you used might simply be a spell you've learned before you got any business to for all they know?

It's unknown, dangerous and can't be explained, so it's cool by definition. Our ancestors worshipped lightning for this exact reason.

[Baphled]

It's genuinely just a result of the flimsy lore. Although I kind of get it.

There's a scene in the game where you flee some poachers, and they're all launching spells and trying to kill you. The usual stuff. Then one of them starts blasting the killing curse, and it feels much more serious. They're all trying to kill you, but the unforgivable curse just has that reputation of horror with it.

[Fienyx]

Pretty sure they can be turned into sheep as well. Get a few new hens, and some sheep.... Would it be weird to eat those eggs and make that new wool sweater? 🤔

[Steven]

Gun thing kinda depends on where you live might be same with the harry potter world not sure.

for example in america laws governing curses spells might be diff than at location of Hogwarts which seems to be a magical part of united kingdom. ??

the gun example that was used explained little more detail.

in Florida we me and friend of mine knew a sergeant form air force guy broke into his house and sergeant had a gun guy ran away out of his house sergeant chased him down then gunned down in back due to stand you ground laws sergeant got off.

in USA how stuff like this is viewed or even dealt with really vary state to state and it also pretty much up to the DEA if there even going brother with it, One DEA might view something as a murder anther DEA might not.

in harry potter i believe there Aurors take place of the DEA in Way, and they seem to have great deal of freedom on how they handle things and even view things example even allowing them to use curses them selfs.

there also example in the game Sebastian uncle stopped working as a Auror for the Ministry because they wanted him to use dark magic and seem to look other way.

there also seem to be a huge question if the ministry is even consider a legitimate government in the wizzarding world sense its questioned so much and has such hard time controlling its own laws and it seems to be openingly mocked and questioned so much, and it seems to be a newer government with laws that where not always in place at least that is way it comes off.

[Steven]

Fienyx původně napsal:

Pretty sure they can be turned into sheep as well. Get a few new hens, and some sheep.... Would it be weird to eat those eggs and make that new wool sweater? 🤔

its even funnier and weirder when your realize you turned a male wizard or person into a female and then they became a Hen not just a chicken.

if it was a male and turned into a chicken it should became a rooster so not only you changing people into animals but also giving some of them sex changes at same time against there will.

same would apply for the sheep males should turn into Rams and females into Ewes.

[jungle.james]

The plot implies Ancient Magic is nefarious but part of reality. One of the Keepers and professors knows Avada. So, yeah.

[jungle.james]

Steven původně napsal:

jungle.james původně napsal:

The plot implies Ancient Magic is nefarious but part of reality. One of the Keepers and professors knows Avada. So, yeah.

I feel like keepers might be older than the government ministry that makes laws so at onetime this stuff probably was not nefarious but just part of life.

They're mad about a woman they saved the life of (begrudgingly so) because she used the same Ancient Magic that saved her life to remove pain of others. Over and over again, the Keepers reiterate that these are best kept to a select few for reasons of abuse. It's not that no one knew better, but that those who knew were wary of the dangers like atomic weapons or tech in Deus Ex.

[Steven]

jungle.james původně napsal:

Steven původně napsal:

I feel like keepers might be older than the government ministry that makes laws so at onetime this stuff probably was not nefarious but just part of life.

They're mad about a woman they saved the life of (begrudgingly so) because she used the same Ancient Magic that saved her life to remove pain of others. Over and over again, the Keepers reiterate that these are best kept to a select few for reasons of abuse. It's not that no one knew better, but that those who knew were wary of the dangers like atomic weapons or tech in Deus Ex.

I think whole point of books and storys was to kinda get people to question what makes something good or bad or why it should be or not be considered good or bad.

I do not think it was ever issue of her taking away the pain but to use it to in-cress her own power via eating other peoples emotions, but like atomic bombs its not something that should be feared.

the what if is a scenario is something that can plague anything.