middle Eastern professor in 1400s Briitan

[annedoe]

I noticed a lot of people ("trolls") complaing about how "historicaly inaccurate" Natai and her Mom are for 1890s Britian. They're from Africa and some of the countries in Africa were part of the British Empire at this time

Something I notice is one of the Keepers Professor Bakar from the 15th (1400s, so same era that Sir NIcolas is from) Britan is from the Middle-East. Yemen to be specific. At that time Yemen and other Middle-Eastern countries were under the Ottaoman rule. So by the troll's techinally Professor Bakar shouldn't exist in Hogwarts in the 1400s if Natai and her Mom shouldn't exist in Hogwarts in the 1890s. /s

If they're going to be complaining about Natai and her Mom (Africans) in 1890s Britian they should be also complaining about Professor Bakar in the 1400s Britian.

At least Natai and her Mom are more historical accurate due to the Britsh Empire "the empire where the Sun never set" by the 1890s.


Oh and BTW Voodoo of today is from the Carrbiean not Africa. And plenty of African women still wear the headscarves like Natai's mom does today.

And another notice I'm pretty sure the Spice Trade or more accurate rerm the Silk Road was to India/China not to Yemen where Professor Bakar is from. There wasn't even a Suez Canal in Africa until 1859. So the only way for Proessor Bakar to have come from Yemen which is on the very tip of Saudi Arabia- would be to go up and around Africa and then go past Portgual, and Spain and then pass France before getting to 1400s Britian.


So as I said this is joke thread pointing out the troll's own failed logic. If they's going to complain about Onani being inaccurate in 1890s they should also be compaing about a Arab/Middle-Easter Professor being inaccurate for the 1400s.

[Lazarus {FATE}]

Originally posted by lunerlineage:

Originally posted by Bosco:

its make believe, not real - a video game, not real world history - made up hogwarts history. why cant people see the difference???

So putting in huge diversity of peoples into games with time periods that don't support such diversity is rewriting of history. Its done to condition a person mind into thinking diversity was a thing thorough all of human history.

How about the game being sold around the globe and that other nationalities might like playing as a character they might identify with better.

No rewriting of history, it is a fictional game. Many can't discern the difference between fact or fiction and virtual games to real life these days.

If you all are so scared about a game rewriting your sacred history, you might raise your kids to use critical thinking, something many parents ignored the past 2 or generations going by many dicussion groups and posts.

[Sneaky Fox]

Originally posted by Speedwagon:

]
Send me some sources regarding the kingdom come deliverance part, because I don't recall ANY DRAMA regarding that game.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/7v1lil/people_are_getting_extremely_upset_because_there/

Here you go. But you can just google the contraversy and find plenty of stuff. Or ask ChatGPT.

[ihatevnecks]

Originally posted by desaix:

Come to think of it, given the number of Byzantine refugees there were in the 1400s (and how Byzantine and what we now think of as "middle eastern" fashions were so similar), it's actually quite likely that there would be middle easterners, even in muggle England, in that period.

Not to mention Africans; besides Constantinople itself, they were also in Spain, France, Italy. Rome still has a church, the Santa Stefano degli Abissini, that was used as a dedicated church for Christian Ethiopians on pilgrimage and ambassadorial duties in the 1400s. Even in the modern day it's one of that Ethiopia's two national churches in Italy.

[Bersekr]

I don't really care about the representation either way but I find it hilarious that in this game the school is super diverse with students from all over the place and then in the rough 100 years untill Harry Potter they all disappear and the school becomes basically exclusively filled with white ppl.

Was Dumbledore just super racist and kicked out all the foreigners? That's what I like to imagine cause it sounds hilarious

[Searu]

There are several schools of magic out there in the world of wizardry, not just Hogwarts. While certain cultures do migrate to far away lands it is not an established norm in the 1800s but I'd imagine in the Wizarding world it is very much a norm due to the secretive and close-knit society that they live by.

[Eric]

Originally posted by annedoe:

I notice a lot of people complaing about Natai, an African in 1890s Britian. But if you guys copleted 3 of the four trials you notice one of the "Keepers" from about the 15th century (aka 1400s)- is someone from the Middle East. So how can there be someone from the Middle East in 1400s Britian?


So you guys can see how stupid the argument is about Natai in the 1890x when there's a middle-eastern professor in the 1400s?

Yea, but really irks me as historically inaccurate is that you dont have syphylis or the plague as a game mechanic. oh that and throwing fking fire out of a piece of wood?!

[Eru Ilúvatar]

In any fictional media, there needs to be room for "suspension of disbelief", which allows people to read about magic, or transporters, or warp drive, or dragons, etc. But at the same time, there needs to be enough reality to allow for that suspension to take place.

When you read, say, the Wheel of Time it's very clear that cultural differences and ethnic differences are in play in a medieval style world - which was why the Amazon TV series shat the bed when they had an isolated village that had been more or less cut off from outside influence for over a 1000 years be populated by black families and white families and middle-eastern families, all claiming to be descended from the originating kingdom that had fallen millennia ago. It makes no sense in a medieval setting. Makes no sense in TODAY's setting:

The UK, today, has 90% British Ethnicity. That's Celtic, Gaelic, Briton, Pict, Saxon, Angle, Jute, Norse, Dane peoples. White. British. 90%.

In 2023. All descended from peoples who migrated here from 900 to over 3000 years ago.

Of the remaining 10%, a LOT are going to be from Europe... meaning Gaelic, Frankish, Germanic, etc, ethnic groups.

White.

The rest, less than 10%, are going to be Middle Eastern, African, Asian, etc.

And 100+ years ago the numbers would have been way over 90% Ethnic British origins.

It's why, in the Harry Potter books AND in the 8 films, the majority of characters are ethnically from the UK and Republic of Ireland. ALL the professors are British Ethnic peoples.

This grounds the books and films into reality, thus allowing for us to "suspend disbelief" to enjoy the broomstick riding, magic, and all the rest. Certain levels of reality need to be grounded into any media, or the whole becomes a joke.

Like Wheel of Time TV shows. Or "Rings of Power". Or any other Leftist, Woke garbage that forces their ideology rather than simply tell a good story.

The silly changes in this game are not enough to spoil the game overall. Most of us just want to fly around the area, pretend to be a witch or wizard, explore the Castle, and all the rest. But it is laughable - and something the producers and game designers need feedback on - a game is best when it fits with basic storytelling conventions.

And that does mean keeping certain things grounded to reality.

How they handled Natsi I found fine - good reason for her and her mother being there. Same for some of the others. But it is the shear volume of non-British peoples in Scotland in the 1890s (and even 1400s) that makes it silly. Waving it off as "it's a game about magic, it's not real" is what was said about a lot of the other tosh we've had foisted on us over the last 8 or so years, and all those things are currently crashing and burning due to it.

If we want to see this franchise of games continue, and continue successfully, then they need to stop putting extremist ideologies into it and ground it enough in either reality or history so that it comes over as "more believable", which in turn lets them amaze us more with the "fantasy magical" aspect.

Remember: the UK is not San Francisco. Never has been. There is nothing wrong with a story focused on predominantly one ethnic group. It worked for the Harry Potter books, it worked for Arabian Nights, it's always worked. "Revisionist history" is an ideological piece of ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that needs to be pointed out and laughed at.

[Ingel Riday]

Originally posted by annedoe:

I notice a lot of people complaing about Natai, an African in 1890s Britian. But if you guys copleted 3 of the four trials you notice one of the "Keepers" from about the 15th century (aka 1400s)- is someone from the Middle East. So how can there be someone from the Middle East in 1400s Britian?


So you guys can see how stupid the argument is about Natai in the 1890x when there's a middle-eastern professor in the 1400s?

Honestly, magic. Magic explains it away.

I'm going to get all weird on you here: magic in this game functions like super-advanced technology. Sure, they don't have email. However, they can communicate across vast distances with crystal balls /spells and have incredibly fast magical owls that deliver letters.

Sure, they don't have planes. However, they have portkeys, teleportation spells, and portals that are faster than modern day passenger aircraft.

I could go on and on. I can't suspend my disbelief when a rural, backwards village in Wheel of Time has more "diversity" than modern day San Francisco. The fastest means of travel for most everyone in that world is by foot, and the town is super remote. Makes no sense. I can't suspend my disbelief when a random, middle-of-nowhere village in low-fantasy Poland (aka The Witcher's setting) is a bloody rainbow of humanity. Makes no sense.

Hogwarts having a bunch of different physical appearances? At the height of the British Empire with a niche group of magically-enchanted folk who have access to lightning-fast travel methods? FINE. There are actual, reasonable, lore-friendly explanations and I have zero objections of any merit or worth, given the scenario. It logically checks out.

Which is why the 15th century Middle Eastern professor never phased me. At the time, Middle Eastern cities were bastions of learning and education. Would make sense that they'd have magical scholars, and it would make sense that one might wind up in England given their advanced means of travel. I can't offer a reasonable objection. It's almost as if the writers of this game were aware of potential objections and then worked within the lore to answer them in clear, competent ways. In fact, I'd bet that is the case 100%.

Edit addition: also, sure... you could argue historical revisionism. But again, you're dealing with a magically isolated valley in a secluded part of the Scottish Highlands, which has been occupied exclusively by magically enchanted folk for the past 600 or so years... with these people almost all having access to lightning fast travel methods. I can shrug it off. This isn't representative of England or Scotland. This is representative of a self-governing, isolationist magic territory.

[Medicles]

Originally posted by Lazarus =8=:

If you all are so scared about a game rewriting your sacred history, you might raise your kids to use critical thinking, something many parents ignored the past 2 or generations going by many dicussion groups and posts.

You mean like 80% of the human world since the west is the only zone where multiculturalism is actually supported and that not by the people with the different cultures that come to the west?

[Adam__86]

Wizards can literally teleport and fly, ofcourse they traveled the globe before muggles. That said can people please stop pretending ethnic people didn't mingle till the 20th century just to push some anti woke rhetric

[Adam__86]

Originally posted by Medicles:

Originally posted by Lazarus =8=:

If you all are so scared about a game rewriting your sacred history, you might raise your kids to use critical thinking, something many parents ignored the past 2 or generations going by many dicussion groups and posts.

You mean like 80% of the human world since the west is the only zone where multiculturalism is actually supported and that not by the people with the different cultures that come to the west?

Name one nation that is 100% one ethnicity

[MugHug]

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Originally posted by Medicles:

You mean like 80% of the human world since the west is the only zone where multiculturalism is actually supported and that not by the people with the different cultures that come to the west?

Name one nation that is 100% one ethnicity

American Native Indian Nation?

[Adam__86]

Originally posted by MugHug:

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Name one nation that is 100% one ethnicity

American Native Indian Nation?

So 1 nation (with a complicated history) that shares lands with the West

[MugHug]

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Originally posted by MugHug:

American Native Indian Nation?

So 1 nation (with a complicated history) that shares lands with the West

Tokelau?

[MugHug]

Originally posted by Adam__86:

Originally posted by MugHug:

American Native Indian Nation?

So 1 nation (with a complicated history) that shares lands with the West

Cocos (Keeling) Islands?