Immersion - Underwhelming low effort? (static NPCs, passing trough NPCs etc.)

[....]

While i like the general concept, the soundtrack etc. the game has huge issues that are ruining immersion - many of those problems would have been fixable rather easily so why does it feel so low effort?

World:
- world in general is great feels exactly like harry potter - BUT
-- most of it feels like a movie set - static NPCs that dont move at all, pass trough NPCs that dont react to the player at all - there is no possibility of interaction - this seriously damages immersion

- the different hosues look nice - but they are dead aswell - there is almost no interaction almost no movement of NPCs - what happens to NPC at night? Sorry but this is just immersion breaking for no reason - there are tons of systems from other games im pretty sure one can simply copy/buy those systems - be it something simple as NPCs moving in a certain area or just NPCs reacting to the player when he runs into them to NPCs at least having some sort of random dialogue interaction

NPCs:
- Most NPCs dont react to the player at all - many dont even move and the player can simply pass trough most of them - immersion breaking ...
- some of the Companion NPCs are simply boring
-- Natsai for example - its a shallow Mary Sue NPC in my opinion - there is no depth, no real interresting story, exaggeratedly friendly - she doesnt feel like a real character - that wouldnt be that bad but it also feels as if the game is trying to force interaction with her (Characters need flaws to not feel artificial - why was the character made in such a way - especially if it is meant to be one of the more important NPCs?)

Also a general question - why do most characters have almost stereotypical accents according to their nationality when in reality most people that grow up in a different country simply speak like anyone else - feels a bit weird and arent these the typical prejudices?


This game isnt bad - but many aspects of it feel like a game from 20 years ago and i dont understand why those flaws even exist - especially since fixing them isnt much work and systems have been made for lots of games.

I think the game isnt bad but its not great either and it feels as if a lot of its potential has been wasted for no reason - especially when it comes to the open world and immersion ...
I mean seriously if one ignores the FPS drop at the first time going into the big dining room the atmosphere is great - but it goes downwards pretty fast fater that and looking at the general game design i wonder if the open world was a mistake because it seems to be not much more than an afterthought to me.

[Lonetac]

@youri

I wouldnt spend 5 minutes sitting down, eating or using a studying animation, it doesnt add anything. To me that is wasted fluff. That doesnt add immersion, its just nonsense. That is of course MY OPINION. Im not saying I am right, its just my opinion.

I do agree there should be more house competition though, thats valid. It does feel like everyone is friends and there really isnt a lot of house competition and that was prevalant in the HP books. I didnt think of that but i do agree with you on it.

[Youri]

Lonetac původně napsal:

@youri

I wouldnt spend 5 minutes sitting down, eating or using a studying animation, it doesnt add anything. To me that is wasted fluff. That doesnt add immersion, its just nonsense. That is of course MY OPINION. Im not saying I am right, its just my opinion.

I do agree there should be more house competition though, thats valid. It does feel like everyone is friends and there really isnt a lot of house competition and that was prevalant in the HP books. I didnt think of that but i do agree with you on it.

Me neither I also don't mind the waiting in a space until the right time for a quest.
Witcher does the same thing, but he goes and Meditate, sure lets meditate in front of the monsters cave until the moon is in the right spot. And yet OP seems to love the Witcher...

[....]

Youri původně napsal:

.... původně napsal:

Seriously just found this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hahSZw6CEbU

So a modder added more immersion in a few days then the DEVs in years of development - isnt that pretty embarassing?


Not sure if thats even released yet and the menu looks weird - but those little details would have made the game better already - and obviously those changes werent a lot of work since there wasnt much time between release and this ...

This is more then just a reply to this post.
Where as some of the points in general I agree with. Where you just lose me is when you say things scream at you that its low quality. As been mentioned this the companies first real outing. And I would shiver from the horror of thing that this game would have been made by Ubisoft. As this game to me beats any Assasins Creed game by a mile.
But what goes into making a game is a lot of asset generation.
So where as you and this is a direct reaction to your comment here,

Look how embarrassing a mod could do this in a week or so.
Your mod has a single focus, and can steal assets. Where as the Dev's spend years into asset making. world assembly, spell graphics, world interaction.
And I seriously think that when the company got hired they had a way larger scope of what they want to deliver. But as with AAA title, the numbers need to be crunched, every dollar needs to be afforded and sometimes things just don't make it into the game.

That doesn't mean you don't have a point. But it irks me when you write things like seriously low quality. When its by far the better game i've played in the last few years including Elden RIng.

I'm more annoyed with hearing the same voice lines every-time.
And I wanted more house rivalry as well.
The companions I don't mind to much the black girl explains stuff regarding her father later on that shows why she is why she is. Plus don't forget her mom is a teacher and Hogwarts so I expect her to be a little better then your average student.

Accents: You may think that, but understand that millions of players all over the world play this game. So while X may be apparent to you if there was no thick accent for others it puts them right in the frame of mind when they here that accent that you dislike.

How did the mod steal anything - as far as ive seen in the video it seems as if it just took the animations already in the game and gave them to the player with an interface - why didnt the DEVs just do that themselves?

I also am pretty sure that its different peopel - the guys making the character models aren the same as the guys doing the animations or creating the interactions.

But yes to me it is an indicator of low quality or not caring if i can just run trough NPCs, or if the wait mechanic is the player dropping dead randomly on the floor waking up and nobody even comments on that.

I get that its one of their first big projects - but this obvoiusly is a AAA title with a huge budget. And while i agree that obviously not every small detail can be perfect or even added things like the waiting mechanic to me is low quality - thats something i dont even expect in an indie game.

[....]

Youri původně napsal:

Lonetac původně napsal:

@youri

I wouldnt spend 5 minutes sitting down, eating or using a studying animation, it doesnt add anything. To me that is wasted fluff. That doesnt add immersion, its just nonsense. That is of course MY OPINION. Im not saying I am right, its just my opinion.

I do agree there should be more house competition though, thats valid. It does feel like everyone is friends and there really isnt a lot of house competition and that was prevalant in the HP books. I didnt think of that but i do agree with you on it.

Me neither I also don't mind the waiting in a space until the right time for a quest.
Witcher does the same thing, but he goes and Meditate, sure lets meditate in front of the monsters cave until the moon is in the right spot. And yet OP seems to love the Witcher...

I never said witcher is perfect - it also has lots of flaws. But it does some things in a very good way - while it still fails at others.

If i had to rate this game:

- Art Direction 9/10
- Graphics 8-9/10
- Sound 9/10
- NPC Interaction 2/10
- immersive world 4/10
- Combat 7-8/10 (fun but a bit too basic)


It just feels like there is a lot of wasted potential - what i find interresting is how many people dont seem to care about actual RPG elements in a RPG. I understand that each individual action doesnt do a lot - but its a completely different feel of immersion if the world feels interactive.

[Tenshi]

I've seen so many interactions between students, ghosts/students, ghosts, townsfolk and teacher/students that your post seems like just another jester award farming troll post from someone who didn't stop to look at the game while playing it.

[Youri]

.... původně napsal:

Youri původně napsal:

This is more then just a reply to this post.
Where as some of the points in general I agree with. Where you just lose me is when you say things scream at you that its low quality. As been mentioned this the companies first real outing. And I would shiver from the horror of thing that this game would have been made by Ubisoft. As this game to me beats any Assasins Creed game by a mile.
But what goes into making a game is a lot of asset generation.
So where as you and this is a direct reaction to your comment here,

Look how embarrassing a mod could do this in a week or so.
Your mod has a single focus, and can steal assets. Where as the Dev's spend years into asset making. world assembly, spell graphics, world interaction.
And I seriously think that when the company got hired they had a way larger scope of what they want to deliver. But as with AAA title, the numbers need to be crunched, every dollar needs to be afforded and sometimes things just don't make it into the game.

That doesn't mean you don't have a point. But it irks me when you write things like seriously low quality. When its by far the better game i've played in the last few years including Elden RIng.

I'm more annoyed with hearing the same voice lines every-time.
And I wanted more house rivalry as well.
The companions I don't mind to much the black girl explains stuff regarding her father later on that shows why she is why she is. Plus don't forget her mom is a teacher and Hogwarts so I expect her to be a little better then your average student.

Accents: You may think that, but understand that millions of players all over the world play this game. So while X may be apparent to you if there was no thick accent for others it puts them right in the frame of mind when they here that accent that you dislike.

How did the mod steal anything - as far as ive seen in the video it seems as if it just took the animations already in the game and gave them to the player with an interface - why didnt the DEVs just do that themselves?

I also am pretty sure that its different peopel - the guys making the character models aren the same as the guys doing the animations or creating the interactions.

But yes to me it is an indicator of low quality or not caring if i can just run trough NPCs, or if the wait mechanic is the player dropping dead randomly on the floor waking up and nobody even comments on that.

I get that its one of their first big projects - but this obvoiusly is a AAA title with a huge budget. And while i agree that obviously not every small detail can be perfect or even added things like the waiting mechanic to me is low quality - thats something i dont even expect in an indie game.

With stealing I mean they don't have to code anything themselves like you said just asset usage. But where I'm coming from sitting down, may not have been a priority in the grand scheme of things with development issues they may have been facing. Look i'm on the its not a big deal in the grandschem of things they pulled of.
Its by far the best Potter game we have, and really pulls of the living Harry Potters world, is its a perfect 10, no of course not. Like I mentioned hearing the same speech line every time gets to you. But I just have not missed the ability to sit down or eat. Or wanting to bump into NPC's (GTAV's street NPC are notoriously annoying in their own right as an example)

[....]

Youri původně napsal:

.... původně napsal:

How did the mod steal anything - as far as ive seen in the video it seems as if it just took the animations already in the game and gave them to the player with an interface - why didnt the DEVs just do that themselves?

I also am pretty sure that its different peopel - the guys making the character models aren the same as the guys doing the animations or creating the interactions.

But yes to me it is an indicator of low quality or not caring if i can just run trough NPCs, or if the wait mechanic is the player dropping dead randomly on the floor waking up and nobody even comments on that.

I get that its one of their first big projects - but this obvoiusly is a AAA title with a huge budget. And while i agree that obviously not every small detail can be perfect or even added things like the waiting mechanic to me is low quality - thats something i dont even expect in an indie game.

With stealing I mean they don't have to code anything themselves like you said just asset usage. But where I'm coming from sitting down, may not have been a priority in the grand scheme of things with development issues they may have been facing. Look i'm on the its not a big deal in the grandschem of things they pulled of.
Its by far the best Potter game we have, and really pulls of the living Harry Potters world, is its a perfect 10, no of course not. Like I mentioned hearing the same speech line every time gets to you. But I just have not missed the ability to sit down or eat. Or wanting to bump into NPC's (GTAV's street NPC are notoriously annoying in their own right as an example)

I get what you mean i still think its something basic i expect in a good RPG game. And i also dont miss the ability to bump into people but i miss the interactivity of the gameworld and that NPCs react to the player to some extent - and yes i think that even when there are other priorities things like having the player pass trough NPCs is a complete no go - not only in RPG games.

Its not a bad game - its also as you said probably the best Harry Potter game - still to be honest without the harry potter theme i would rate this game pretty medicore - the only things that stand out are:
- the harry potter franchise
- the graphics to some extent (excluding interactivity)
- the animations arent bad aswell - way above average compared to other open world games
- the combat system is good (i would like it to be a bit more complex but its a good system for an open world RPG)


And yes most of the mechanics are way better than the typical ubisoft open world. I am seriously glad that Ubisoft didnt make this game.

[Akusa]

Unfortunately every game can't be at RDR2's level of immersion.

Immersion aside, anyone else not really enjoying exploring the open world that much? Overall it's a good game but I feel like the world is missing something. I just find myself going straight to quest objectives rather than going out and exploring like I did in the AC games (especially odyssey), rdr2, witcher 3, cyberpunk.

[Lonetac]

Akusa původně napsal:

Unfortunately every game can't be at RDR2's level of immersion.

Immersion aside, anyone else not really enjoying exploring the open world that much? Overall it's a good game but I feel like the world is missing something. I just find myself going straight to quest objectives rather than going out and exploring like I did in the AC games (especially odyssey), rdr2, witcher 3, cyberpunk.

Ive had a lot of fun exploring personally. Just like i did in witcher and cyberpunk. Its just a smaller world.

its what i do in every open world game, i do every side quest and explore everywhere i can and then i quit playing before ever doing the main story, lol.

In this case im doing the main story though. If i had done it again i would have started there given how it unlocks everything.

[Marty]

.... původně napsal:

While i like the general concept, the soundtrack etc. the game has huge issues that are ruining immersion - many of those problems would have been fixable rather easily so why does it feel so low effort?

World:
- world in general is great feels exactly like harry potter - BUT
-- most of it feels like a movie set - static NPCs that dont move at all, pass trough NPCs that dont react to the player at all - there is no possibility of interaction - this seriously damages immersion

- the different hosues look nice - but they are dead aswell - there is almost no interaction almost no movement of NPCs - what happens to NPC at night? Sorry but this is just immersion breaking for no reason - there are tons of systems from other games im pretty sure one can simply copy/buy those systems - be it something simple as NPCs moving in a certain area or just NPCs reacting to the player when he runs into them to NPCs at least having some sort of random dialogue interaction

NPCs:
- Most NPCs dont react to the player at all - many dont even move and the player can simply pass trough most of them - immersion breaking ...
- some of the Companion NPCs are simply boring
-- Natsai for example - its a shallow Mary Sue NPC in my opinion - there is no depth, no real interresting story, exaggeratedly friendly - she doesnt feel like a real character - that wouldnt be that bad but it also feels as if the game is trying to force interaction with her (Characters need flaws to not feel artificial - why was the character made in such a way - especially if it is meant to be one of the more important NPCs?)

Also a general question - why do most characters have almost stereotypical accents according to their nationality when in reality most people that grow up in a different country simply speak like anyone else - feels a bit weird and arent these the typical prejudices?


This game isnt bad - but many aspects of it feel like a game from 20 years ago and i dont understand why those flaws even exist - especially since fixing them isnt much work and systems have been made for lots of games.

I think the game isnt bad but its not great either and it feels as if a lot of its potential has been wasted for no reason - especially when it comes to the open world and immersion ...
I mean seriously if one ignores the FPS drop at the first time going into the big dining room the atmosphere is great - but it goes downwards pretty fast fater that and looking at the general game design i wonder if the open world was a mistake because it seems to be not much more than an afterthought to me.

agreed
no real immersion possible
only simulation feels

[Meow]

This is more of an interaction than immersion point, i would agree on the contextual basis that would make it valid, for example, interaction as a Utility, If i was to lay down in my Dorm bed to sleep as a wait time mechanic, in the Park at Hogsmeade eating Candy, in the Tavern ordering & drinking butter beer, Siting down at the library & interacting with books to level up a skill with a mini game this is one aspect many do enjoy.

[....]

Meow původně napsal:

This is more of an interaction than immersion point, i would agree on the contextual basis that would make it valid, for example, interaction as a Utility, If i was to lay down in my Dorm bed to sleep as a wait time mechanic, in the Park at Hogsmeade eating Candy, in the Tavern ordering & drinking butter beer, Siting down at the library & interacting with books to level up a skill with a mini game this is one aspect many do enjoy.

Yes but the question is why wasnt this just added. Looking at the NPCs the animations etc. for all of those actions already exist so i doubt it would be much work. To me interaction is what creates immersion in the world - at least in games.

I do realize it doesnt seem like a big thing - but interaction creates immersion. For example - games that have physics for almost all objects and a player running into something and the object reacting by something falling down the table etc. to me creates a ton of immersion even tough most people dont do it on purpose and wont use it often - on the other hand a game where everything seems to be glued instantly loses a lot of its immersione the first time you realize that.

But looking at this topic obviously there are also people that dont feel that way?


Another thing that also seems weird to me in an RPG is not only there not beeing a system that reacts to stealing - but the game actually wanting the player to open chests by breaking into houses? The first time i walk into a new store/house in this game there is always a chest waiting for me in a private room - and none of the NPCs even bats an eye i can even sell their stuff back to them and i am pretty sure not opening those chests would actually be a huge disadvantage in the game.

[Shahadem]

Only Skyrim can be Skyrim.

That I wager is why Bethesda hasn't made a real new Elder Scrolls game in a decade. Because that game is going to be compared to Skyrim and fail in every department but the graphics.

That said, this game has only surface level immersion. IE it looks realistic so long as you don't do anything more than look.

[....]

Shahadem původně napsal:

Only Skyrim can be Skyrim.

That I wager is why Bethesda hasn't made a real new Elder Scrolls game in a decade. Because that game is going to be compared to Skyrim and fail in every department but the graphics.

That said, this game has only surface level immersion. IE it looks realistic so long as you don't do anything more than look.

To be honest - i think Skyrim wasnt a good game at all - Bethasda games in general are medicore with a lot of good ideas and mechanics - what makes them the some of the best games is the modding. Story NPCs etc. couldnt be more generic - even the combat isnt good in vanilla.

And yes - thats the main issue of this game - but i think a lot of those problems could have been fixed with not much work.

[K O Z M O N A U T]

TaquitoBurrito původně napsal:

Yes, the world is a static playground. Very unreactionary. Like I said elsewhere, it's a 10/10 early 2000's game with modern graphics

I exactly agree with this statement.