The keepers are wrong. (potential spoilers)

[Nechlord]

I fundamentally disagree with the whole idea that just because an area of magic is dangerous you shouldn't be allowed to use it.

Simultaneously you shouldn't just use it liberally like Isidora.

How about instead you practice and study the magical techniques on animals ( as is done in the real word with some studies), then when you've managed to do that safely (remove pain without stripping all emotion) you can then attempt trials on willing subjects.

The idea that its literally all or nothing is just so fundamentally bad.

The same line of logic happens with Sebastian Sallow, he fully embraces the dark arts and his uncle fully denies it even destroying the relic, how about instead you guide your nephew to study the artefact without becoming corrupted or put limitations in place.

[annedoe]

I just want to remind everyone that in the books Harry uses two unforgiveable curses in book 7. The Imperius curse (for both.. the goblin (since Griphook couldn't drive the cart anymore) and also for the fellow DE who was surprised to see "Belatrix" out. And the Cruio curse on the male Carrow after he spit in Mcogngall's face

[Moga CMDR]

Sure, the keepers are wrong. But I'm sure many think they are wrong too. Life is more nuanced than fiction a lot of the time. Especially YA fiction.

It's easier and faster to depict dramatic differences than it is to communicate all the grey areas.

So this isn't unique to this game, or the world it takes place it. It's pretty much a proxy for a lot of other stories too.

So while I agree, it's so common it's almost not worth mentioning. At least, at my age.

There are a lot of threads about how the story is bonk at points. I think the criticism is valid, mostly. But I also say to shrug it off a bit too.

[Nechlord]

Originally posted by Moga CMDR:

Sure, the keepers are wrong. But I'm sure many think they are wrong too. Life is more nuanced than fiction a lot of the time. Especially YA fiction.

It's easier and faster to depict dramatic differences than it is to communicate all the grey areas.

So this isn't unique to this game, or the world it takes place it. It's pretty much a proxy for a lot of other stories too.

So while I agree, it's so common it's almost not worth mentioning. At least, at my age.

I agree with you that it is more of a grey area, however my qualms lie with the game's story, its more that the game presents the keepers are "the good guys" and Isidora as evil, whereas its more of a grey area and you could even argue that the keepers are the evil ones considering they just straight up murder Isidora using the killing curse. Sure she used what looked like confringo in self defence after being attacked, but they attacked first in a 4v1 situation.

[Red Velvet]

I mean, they asked her to relinquish her wand, she refused. 2 of the keepers were trying to disarm her, and one was unconscious. The other one came out of left field to murder her, so idk man 1/4 being bad-ish still makes the majority good, and they did warn her multiple times to stop using the magic until they could understand what it was capable of, but as usual, she didn't stop and continued doing it in private

[Nechlord]

Originally posted by Red Velvet:

I mean, they asked her to relinquish her wand, she refused. 2 of the keepers were trying to disarm her, and one was unconscious. The other one came out of left field to murder her, so idk man 1/4 being bad-ish still makes the majority good, and they did warn her multiple times to stop using the magic until they could understand what it was capable of, but as usual, she didn't stop and continued doing it in private

I mean I sort of agree, my main qualms however are
a) there's no punishment or even condemnation for the keeper that just murdered her.
b) Yes its reasonable to ask her to stop, its not reasonable to do what they do after and just ban all use of the magic. None of them seem to have studied it further and all of them seem to take a hardline "never use the magic just keep it secret".

I mean realistically the guy coming out of left field didn't have to kill her, he could have knocked her out, tried to use imperio to get her to drop her wand or used a less lethal spell, even Diffindo to remove her hand would have been a better option.

[Harris]

Originally posted by Red Velvet:

they did warn her multiple times to stop using the magic until they could understand what it was capable of

It's only they were never interested in understanding anything in the first place. They wanted to keep it under lock and key and whoever completed the trials not to wield it responsibly like they claimed - but to simply take over their job. And San Bakar's first degree murder of his colleague and former student kind of cements my inability to view Keepers as anything positive.

And I see a huge parallel with founders of Hogwarts. Isidora found herself in the similar situation to Salazar, and Ranrok became her basilisk.

[Red Velvet]

OH forsure, out of all 4 keepers, he was the only one I didn't like, just a little too pompous for me, and he definitely should have been reprimanded in some way shape or form for using the curse.
I forget when the ministry technically banned the unforgivables but when they killed isidora was like, what, 100(?)ish years before the story takes place no? Its possible the unforgivables weren't all that unforgivable at that point in the timeline and more or less just frowned upon.
But yeah he could have just joined in on the disarm chain, to make it a 3v1 expelliarmus, I mean the other 2 practically had her themselves i doubt it would have taken much effort

[Nechlord]

I think the unforgivables were legal when he used it but its still super messed up.
(Edited to fix grammar mistakes)

[DreadDaily]

If there is one thing I learned from the story is that there really is no good side no matter what you choose. Lets take the Ravenclaw Gobbstone sidequest for example, you give them back to her she goes back to tormenting her classmates and being a brat, you keep them and she is upset and has a horrible time. I feel like literally everyone in this story was in the wrong in one way or another.

[Nechlord]

My main issue with the story is the way its presented. Its not presented as two morally grey sides, its presented as one side being good and the other evil. Even with ranrok, I feel as though he'd be a more interesting villain if he was more morally grey and they leaned a bit more into there being valid reasons for the goblin rebellion, rather than just a power hungry goblin who becomes a supremacist towards the end, IMO Ranrok just doesn't have the necessary gravitas to work as a pure evil villain.

[DreadDaily]

Originally posted by Nechlord:

My main issue with the story is the way its presented. Its not presented as two morally grey sides, its presented as one side being good and the other evil. Even with ranrok, I feel as though he'd be a more interesting villain if he was more morally grey and they leaned a bit more into there being valid reasons for the goblin rebellion, rather than just a power hungry goblin who becomes a supremacist towards the end, IMO Ranrok just doesn't have the necessary gravitas to work as a pure evil villain.

Actually there is a reason more than him being power hungry but you kinda have to look for the reasoning. I won't spoil anything but I think it helps make his story feel more grey.

[Nechlord]

I mean I know he was badly treated, and also that his ancestor helped isidora build it, its just he doesn't really stress that as a reason, he does occasionally mention it but he focuses far more on sheer power.

[Red Velvet]

Yeah HP series seems to love relying on the whole, "actions of one affect the whole" theory. I personally draw parallels with Isidora to when Hermione started up SPEW, extremely good intentions, but executed extremely poorly. Had either of them just straight up asked the people they were trying to "Fix" they would have probably not gone down those paths

[Nechlord]

Honestly the whole house elf situation is morally messed up. Even if a species likes to serve you shouldn't make them into a servant/slave class, it'll artificially stagnate the growth of the species. Sure they might like it but its still really bad for them as a species. We also don't know how much they actually like to serve and how much of it is long term ingrained brainwashing.

[Nechlord]

Honestly the whole SPEW campaign reads as if Hermione realises what they are doing is screwed up, but since the whole of wizard and even elf society has normalised it they see her actions as wrong whereas in truth they've normalised something pretty horrible.