Hogwarts Legacy

Hogwarts Legacy

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Gamertime Feb 24, 2023 @ 1:28am
Why are there forbidden spells?
You can blow someone up with fireball and lighting but using avada cadabra is suddenly not okay even though it's basically the same outcome
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Showing 61-75 of 77 comments
TheShadowHatter Feb 26, 2023 @ 12:53am 
Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Sorry, can you explain how you can mean to cast a fire spell and not mean for the target to suffer (and potentially die as burns are no joke)? You're trying to rationalize your way out of poorly written books, which is always a loosing proposition.

*losing

Your mental gymnastics are pretty hilarious and I don't get how you need this expained but ok. If you're casting a fireball on an ENEMY who is attacking you, then CLEARLY the point is for self defense. You're not actively thinking "hehe I enjoy making this enemy suffer!" in a real life scenario, but moreso thinking "this should neutralize my enemy who is ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL ME!". Maybe you personally have some weird mentality that you enjoy the idea of your enemy suffering, but normal sane people don't share your thought process. Also I'm not defending the books that I've never read, I'm just laughing at the idea that some of you have no concept of multi-use tools vs a killing weapon.

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Further, if I wield an ax in an attack against another living thing, it doesn't matter that the ax can also be used to cut down a tree (setting aside that weapon axes are designed differently from felling axes).

It clearly DOES matter that the Axe is designed to cut down a tree because, again, it's a tool that was DESIGNED that way and you just happen to use it as a weapon at the time (I love how you automatically assume I'm speaking of the Axe weapon instead of the one designed for cutting trees, thereby proving my point, but if that's too much for you to handle we can change from Axe to a Hammer or literally any other tool that can also be used to kill).

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
A firearm is designed to kill, sure, but not necessarily people. So by your standard a hunting rifle is no different than an ax. They're both tools, nothing more. It's intent of the user that matters, nothing more.

LMAO what difference does it make if the gun is designed to kill people or animals? it's still DESIGNED TO KILL....DESIGNED...TO...KILL. At no point can you use a gun for any other function than ending a life. So no, a hunting rifle is NOT a tool and I don't know what kind of mental gymnastics you used to get to that conclusion lmao wtf?

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
And if I cast a fireball at someone, you can be assured what my intent is.

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
I mean, given the choice I'd cause pain rather than kill, but the game wants you to kill everything.

can I? you seem to be all over the place with your logic lol (or maybe I'm reading it wrong, but your post there implies you would neutralize a target given the choice instead of killing) almost feels like you're just trying to win an argument instead of having an actual discussion.
Last edited by TheShadowHatter; Feb 26, 2023 @ 1:05am
ShugoTheRipper Feb 26, 2023 @ 1:13am 
Kazuma Kiryu Has Never Killed Anyone

And there is your answer.
Gamertime Feb 26, 2023 @ 3:33am 
Originally posted by TheShadowHatter:
Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Sorry, can you explain how you can mean to cast a fire spell and not mean for the target to suffer (and potentially die as burns are no joke)? You're trying to rationalize your way out of poorly written books, which is always a loosing proposition.

*losing

Your mental gymnastics are pretty hilarious and I don't get how you need this expained but ok. If you're casting a fireball on an ENEMY who is attacking you, then CLEARLY the point is for self defense. You're not actively thinking "hehe I enjoy making this enemy suffer!" in a real life scenario, but moreso thinking "this should neutralize my enemy who is ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL ME!". Maybe you personally have some weird mentality that you enjoy the idea of your enemy suffering, but normal sane people don't share your thought process. Also I'm not defending the books that I've never read, I'm just laughing at the idea that some of you have no concept of multi-use tools vs a killing weapon.

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Further, if I wield an ax in an attack against another living thing, it doesn't matter that the ax can also be used to cut down a tree (setting aside that weapon axes are designed differently from felling axes).

It clearly DOES matter that the Axe is designed to cut down a tree because, again, it's a tool that was DESIGNED that way and you just happen to use it as a weapon at the time (I love how you automatically assume I'm speaking of the Axe weapon instead of the one designed for cutting trees, thereby proving my point, but if that's too much for you to handle we can change from Axe to a Hammer or literally any other tool that can also be used to kill).

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
A firearm is designed to kill, sure, but not necessarily people. So by your standard a hunting rifle is no different than an ax. They're both tools, nothing more. It's intent of the user that matters, nothing more.

LMAO what difference does it make if the gun is designed to kill people or animals? it's still DESIGNED TO KILL....DESIGNED...TO...KILL. At no point can you use a gun for any other function than ending a life. So no, a hunting rifle is NOT a tool and I don't know what kind of mental gymnastics you used to get to that conclusion lmao wtf?

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
And if I cast a fireball at someone, you can be assured what my intent is.

Originally posted by wardenwolf:
I mean, given the choice I'd cause pain rather than kill, but the game wants you to kill everything.

can I? you seem to be all over the place with your logic lol (or maybe I'm reading it wrong, but your post there implies you would neutralize a target given the choice instead of killing) almost feels like you're just trying to win an argument instead of having an actual discussion.
rubber bullets exist though
TheShadowHatter Feb 26, 2023 @ 8:45am 
Originally posted by Gamertime:
Originally posted by TheShadowHatter:

*losing

Your mental gymnastics are pretty hilarious and I don't get how you need this expained but ok. If you're casting a fireball on an ENEMY who is attacking you, then CLEARLY the point is for self defense. You're not actively thinking "hehe I enjoy making this enemy suffer!" in a real life scenario, but moreso thinking "this should neutralize my enemy who is ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL ME!". Maybe you personally have some weird mentality that you enjoy the idea of your enemy suffering, but normal sane people don't share your thought process. Also I'm not defending the books that I've never read, I'm just laughing at the idea that some of you have no concept of multi-use tools vs a killing weapon.



It clearly DOES matter that the Axe is designed to cut down a tree because, again, it's a tool that was DESIGNED that way and you just happen to use it as a weapon at the time (I love how you automatically assume I'm speaking of the Axe weapon instead of the one designed for cutting trees, thereby proving my point, but if that's too much for you to handle we can change from Axe to a Hammer or literally any other tool that can also be used to kill).



LMAO what difference does it make if the gun is designed to kill people or animals? it's still DESIGNED TO KILL....DESIGNED...TO...KILL. At no point can you use a gun for any other function than ending a life. So no, a hunting rifle is NOT a tool and I don't know what kind of mental gymnastics you used to get to that conclusion lmao wtf?





can I? you seem to be all over the place with your logic lol (or maybe I'm reading it wrong, but your post there implies you would neutralize a target given the choice instead of killing) almost feels like you're just trying to win an argument instead of having an actual discussion.
rubber bullets exist though

they sure do, but at the end of the day that's just arguing semantics like OP was arguing about weapon Axe vs tool Axe. the point is that guns have only one purpose and one purpose only when they were created, and that's to kill. you can't use a gun for anything else. you can't light a fire place up, or hammer a nail in, or chop down a tree, or anything else useful other than a weapon used to kill. hell rubber bullets can still kill if you're not careful with them, but for the vast majority of the population who buy a gun the intent with it is to end a life (most likely a life that is trying to end your own, but still ending a life is most people's intent with a gun).
Last edited by TheShadowHatter; Feb 26, 2023 @ 8:46am
wardenwolf Feb 26, 2023 @ 8:49am 
Originally posted by TheShadowHatter:
snip

Not sure how you can fail at reading comprehensions so hard, but here we are. You successfully misrepresented almost everything I wrote and seem incredibly fixated on one definition of a specific tool while ignoring the purpose of other tools. Enjoy you ideologue life and stay classy I guess.
Tenshi Feb 26, 2023 @ 9:01am 
Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Originally posted by TheShadowHatter:
snip

Not sure how you can fail at reading comprehensions so hard, but here we are. You successfully misrepresented almost everything I wrote and seem incredibly fixated on one definition of a specific tool while ignoring the purpose of other tools. Enjoy you ideologue life and stay classy I guess.
The fact that people dumb like you exist is why the curses are forbidden. Better to ban them than try to explain word for word for every dumbass like you (there are a lot) why they shouldn't be used, and why a spell like Incendio or Diffindo is not forbidden.
Boboscus Feb 26, 2023 @ 9:01am 
Originally posted by Orion Invictus:
Ask the author.
TheShadowHatter Feb 26, 2023 @ 9:03am 
Originally posted by wardenwolf:
Originally posted by TheShadowHatter:
snip

Not sure how you can fail at reading comprehensions so hard, but here we are. You successfully misrepresented almost everything I wrote and seem incredibly fixated on one definition of a specific tool while ignoring the purpose of other tools. Enjoy you ideologue life and stay classy I guess.

My favorite thing about your little temper tantrum is you address NOTHING about what I said at all. If you have a point then make it or shut up but acting like a child saying "you're wrong I won" proves my point that you just entered "girlfriend coming home" mode and just wanted to argue
Dealer Mangan Feb 26, 2023 @ 9:04am 
My headcannon is that those curses directly target the soul and that's a religious taboo in the wizard world. Most spells affect the body and all harm is physical. But the forbidden curses go down to a sacred layer of metaphysical reality and that's why it's taboo. It's also why they're not blockable.
Hamactus Feb 28, 2023 @ 11:50am 
Originally posted by Vivus Blydyr:
My headcannon is that those curses directly target the soul and that's a religious taboo in the wizard world. Most spells affect the body and all harm is physical. But the forbidden curses go down to a sacred layer of metaphysical reality and that's why it's taboo. It's also why they're not blockable.

One problem, though.
When recalled with Priori Incantatem and the Resurrection Stone, the souls of those killed with Avada Kedavra were no different, in terms of sentience and "wholeness", from, say, the ghosts of Hogwarts. Moreover, Sirius Black, who got killed indirectly, and definitely not with a Killing Curse, was the same as others.
So I'd say, if the killing curse does "target the soul", it doesn't damage the soul, but possibly severs the bond between soul and body.
It is to be seen, whether the Cruciatus Curse damages the soul, since there are no examples of people dying after being subjected to the Cruciatus Curse, who are later brought back as ghosts, shades, etc.
Last edited by Hamactus; Feb 28, 2023 @ 11:50am
Falaris Feb 28, 2023 @ 12:44pm 
It's easy to get stuck on the 'unforgivable' aspect, but it's not a 'natural' aspect of the spell. They were declared unforgivable by the ministry of magic.

The reason for that is their unique trait of requiring intent to kill, torture, or enslave, respectively, for AK, crucio, and the imperius curse.

This is a legal term.


Let's for a moment pretend this is the real world, and that US law applies to the wizarding world. (It doesn't. But, let's pretend, because it gives a common practical reference.). If someone dies through someone else's actions, there's a murder trial, regardless if it's in self defence or not. Police doesn't go, 'ah, it was a burglar. Okay, he deserved to die anyway so there's no trial.'. There's ALWAYS a trial; movies get this wrong a lot. In this trial, motive and intent - usually so hard to prove in court - is automatically established if you use Adava Kadavra. Your intent was to kill. End of story. No 'self defence', no 'only wanted to warn him off'. That's the difference between involuntary manslaughter and first degree murder, in US law.

That difference is from 2-4 years, to life. (Which is death, in Azkaban).

Of course, if you use Bombarda and the jury is convinced you wanted to murder the guy, you're just as badly off. It's just not automatically proven.

Originally posted by Random_internet_guy:
"What difference does it make if I use Bombarda or AK against a burglar? I feel threatened and should be free to kill him any way I want; it's my house after all.".

In the UK, castle defence laws are not as strong as in certain US states. Odd, really, seeing as they have more castles. Still, that is how it is. You are not free to kill anyone who steps on your property.
Shift Feb 28, 2023 @ 1:11pm 
Yeah, pretty much a poorly explained story device. I would be more convinced if the spells targeted the victim soul, so they vanish from existence, unlike those killed by other means.

In the end, it's bad because the plot says so, because were I part of the universe, I would rather get a killing curse to the face than being blown up by a lightning bolt or beaten against the ground until my brain gets out.
Patricia Hapon Feb 28, 2023 @ 1:22pm 
Originally posted by Falaris:
It's easy to get stuck on the 'unforgivable' aspect, but it's not a 'natural' aspect of the spell. They were declared unforgivable by the ministry of magic.

The reason for that is their unique trait of requiring intent to kill, torture, or enslave, respectively, for AK, crucio, and the imperius curse.

This is a legal term.


Let's for a moment pretend this is the real world, and that US law applies to the wizarding world. (It doesn't. But, let's pretend, because it gives a common practical reference.). If someone dies through someone else's actions, there's a murder trial, regardless if it's in self defence or not. Police doesn't go, 'ah, it was a burglar. Okay, he deserved to die anyway so there's no trial.'. There's ALWAYS a trial; movies get this wrong a lot. In this trial, motive and intent - usually so hard to prove in court - is automatically established if you use Adava Kadavra. Your intent was to kill. End of story. No 'self defence', no 'only wanted to warn him off'. That's the difference between involuntary manslaughter and first degree murder, in US law.

That difference is from 2-4 years, to life. (Which is death, in Azkaban).

Of course, if you use Bombarda and the jury is convinced you wanted to murder the guy, you're just as badly off. It's just not automatically proven.

Originally posted by Random_internet_guy:
"What difference does it make if I use Bombarda or AK against a burglar? I feel threatened and should be free to kill him any way I want; it's my house after all.".

In the UK, castle defence laws are not as strong as in certain US states. Odd, really, seeing as they have more castles. Still, that is how it is. You are not free to kill anyone who steps on your property.
In France you're not free to kill, at all. Even by accident. (Like, you're gently going on a roadtrip, you roll over... Someone on the road (because...) if he die, it's your fault. (There are some subtles things like, trying to help him, calling an ambulance, rolling over him or fleeing... But well, if he die, that's still on you)

That demonstrate quite well how the "unforgivable" are actually just laws. Like, the ban was put on pause for aurors when things got otta hands. Unforgivable... More or less.

And yeah, you can use bombarda to destroy a rock that block a way (or a meteor that come and kill dinosaurs), you can use incendio for your fireplace, or dispose of junks.

Now, let's try AK a meteor or crucio the fireplace...
Falaris Feb 28, 2023 @ 3:16pm 
Originally posted by Patricia Hapon:
In France you're not free to kill, at all. Even by accident. (Like, you're gently going on a roadtrip, you roll over... Someone on the road (because...) if he die, it's your fault. (There are some subtles things like, trying to help him, calling an ambulance, rolling over him or fleeing... But well, if he die, that's still on you)

To be fair, I mentioned that if someone dies, there's a trial regardless. Same thing. Self defence is an argument you can use in that trial, not some sort of automatic absolution.

(Soudns like we agree, basically)
I am not claiming that this is a great and polished explanation, but the reason given is that all 3 of those curses require you to intend to use them for the sake of it. As we see with Harry, when he uses the Cruciatus curse on Bellatrix after Sirius death, he brings her down but that's about it. His pain and anger about her murdering his godfather isn't even sufficient to sustain the curse for more than a split second. The Cruciatus curse only works when used with the sole intention of tormenting someone or something.

Avada Kedavra only works when used with the intention to murder someone, just saying the spell while being afraid for ones life (e.g. trying to fend off a monstrous spooder) wouldn't do the trick. It's a tool for murder, nothing else. Of course someone proficient in using it can use it at any time, but that's due to that person's general mindset.

Imperio is only usable when someone has every intent to dominate the will of another person or otherwise sentient being, it wouldn't work if used with the intention to help someone achieve, or make it through, something.

Also it has to be said that all 3 of those curses are only forbidden from use against another person, technically speaking you can use them in self-defense against beasts trying to disembowel you.

The game does a good job in regards to explaining how the protagonist ends up learning the 3 spells in their 5th year without turning them into an evil guy, but the game doesn't do a good job at handling the aftermath (by which I mean NPCs like Professor Fig not only begrudgingly tolerating the use of the 3 curses in their presence - which already would be a stretch - but instead just completely ignoring it)

Also it has to be said that the game generally doesn't really portrait Harry Potter combat very well, at no point in the books does anyone use Bombarda on a another person for example, and Incendio isn't a flame-thrower spell, neither is Confringo capable of blasting people like a gunshot or Expelliarmus itself inflicting any sort of physical damage.
Last edited by A Ballad from Nocturne; Feb 28, 2023 @ 4:51pm
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Date Posted: Feb 24, 2023 @ 1:28am
Posts: 77