Tactical Energetic Protomatter Matrix Infuser (Kin/Phaser) Consoles

[Caernavon]

Question: is there any practical limit to how many of these things (Tactical Energetic Protomatter Matrix Infuser (Kin/Phaser) consoles) you can stack? I have four of them on board my cruiser, but it just dawned on me that I could add more in the Universal slots. I don't know what the diminishing returns look like, unfortunately.

[cap-boulanger]

There is not a limit other than the number of applicable slots.

As for "diminishing returns", they don't technically have those. The only true diminishing returns in STO are for damage resistances (in order to prevent becoming invulnerable, they're on a curve that maxes out at around 75% damage reduction).

Some people throw around "diminishing returns" inappropriately because they don't understand the actual damage calculations, though. All category 1 damage bonuses (and the Kin/Phaser from these are cat1 damage) that apply to a particular weapon are added together and *then* multiplied by the weapon's base damage (NOT its displayed damage). So when you add a console with, let's say, a +25%, you're adding 25 to your cat1 total before that multiplication takes place, it's not intended to be +25% above the previous visible result (because that would already include your other cat1 bonuses). THEN cat2 bonuses are added together, and multiplied by the post-cat1 result (cat2's are much rarer, except for critical hit damage which is temporary cat2 when applied).

The interesting benefit of stacking a bunch of these particular consoles, though, is the 25% proc chance for the healing effect. Those don't combine to give you a 100% chance (as you probably already know as you have four) because each 25% is handled separately. But it IS possible to trigger it multiple times (i.e. that 25% could succeed three times from a single trigger) because it will calculate once for each console.

[Caernavon]

Originally posted by cap-boulanger:

There is not a limit other than the number of applicable slots.

As for "diminishing returns", they don't technically have those. The only true diminishing returns in STO are for damage resistances (in order to prevent becoming invulnerable, they're on a curve that maxes out at around 75% damage reduction).

Some people throw around "diminishing returns" inappropriately because they don't understand the actual damage calculations, though. All category 1 damage bonuses (and the Kin/Phaser from these are cat1 damage) that apply to a particular weapon are added together and *then* multiplied by the weapon's base damage (NOT its displayed damage). So when you add a console with, let's say, a +25%, you're adding 25 to your cat1 total before that multiplication takes place, it's not intended to be +25% above the previous visible result (because that would already include your other cat1 bonuses). THEN cat2 bonuses are added together, and multiplied by the post-cat1 result (cat2's are much rarer, except for critical hit damage which is temporary cat2 when applied).

The interesting benefit of stacking a bunch of these particular consoles, though, is the 25% proc chance for the healing effect. Those don't combine to give you a 100% chance (as you probably already know as you have four) because each 25% is handled separately. But it IS possible to trigger it multiple times (i.e. that 25% could succeed three times from a single trigger) because it will calculate once for each console.

Yes, I had noticed that, although I did not realize that the procs were handled separately. hat is indeed fascinating.

[cap-boulanger]

Yeah. I learned that one from torpedo cooldown DOFFs actually... their activation behaves the same way (a percentage chance of activating) and I noticed that sometimes I got double the benefit when there was no reason to except that I had multiple copies of the DOFFs.

So in the case of those consoles, if you have 4, then you have 4 completely separate 25% chances. You could (if you are highly lucky or unlucky) throw a trigger and receive the benefit 4 times or (more likely) not at all, though on average the most likely result is going to be one out of the four.

[[88th] ColPresumptuous]

Originally posted by cap-boulanger:

though on average the most likely result is going to be one out of the four.

It should be alot more than that, while its not 100% each one ups the 25% due to multiplication of the probabilities. So 25%x25%x25%x25% becomes a 48% chance at least one goes off with the chance of another one going off lowering itself down until you get back to the 25% chance for the last console... although there might be internal cooldowns on it or limits to how many trigger per use, although seems it can stack 10 times so getting it to fire twice after using a firing mode should be a good rough (near enough) 50% of the time or at least 1 in 3. Which isnt to bad for something you'd be using every 15 seconds or so...

Although its up to the player if having 4 of em is worth it over other consoles, I mean 2 of the console would up it to 31% of at least one trigger per use, and 1 in 3 isnt bad (potentially at least one 'guaranteed' trigger every 45 seconds or so with just the one firing mode and 2 of the consoles)... but probabilities are probabilities, and you might get nothing an entire mission lol.

[cap-boulanger]

Originally posted by 88th ColPresumptuous:

Originally posted by cap-boulanger:

though on average the most likely result is going to be one out of the four.

It should be alot more than that, while its not 100% each one ups the 25% due to multiplication of the probabilities. So 25%x25%x25%x25% becomes a 48% chance at least one goes off with the chance of another one going off lowering itself down until you get back to the 25% chance for the last console... although there might be internal cooldowns on it or limits to how many trigger per use, although seems it can stack 10 times so getting it to fire twice after using a firing mode should be a good rough (near enough) 50% of the time or at least 1 in 3. Which isnt to bad for something you'd be using every 15 seconds or so...

Although its up to the player if having 4 of em is worth it over other consoles, I mean 2 of the console would up it to 31% of at least one trigger per use, and 1 in 3 isnt bad (potentially at least one 'guaranteed' trigger every 45 seconds or so with just the one firing mode and 2 of the consoles)... but probabilities are probabilities, and you might get nothing an entire mission lol.

I just ran the probability calculations on it. For each trigger, with 4 of these consoles, you have a 42% chance that you would get exactly one activation, 28% chance that you would have multiple activations, and 32% of no activation at all. (numbers rounded off to whole numbers) So yes, my statement is correct - that "exactly one" is the most likely result.

I used four as the example simply because the OP said they are using four.

and... "although seems it can stack 10 times so getting it to fire twice after using a firing mode ...Which isnt to bad for something you'd be using every 15 seconds or so..."

You can actually use this twice every 15 seconds. Beacuse it would be triggered by both beam AND cannon skills, which don't share cooldowns.

Even then though, it would be pretty rare to stack it all the way to 10, since the stacks only last 10 seconds and you could only have two triggers within that timeframe. That would require, at minimum, five of these consoles AND getting unusually lucky on the activations.

and... "although there might be internal cooldowns on it or limits to how many trigger per use "... there are not.