Why sto still punish players for puchasing zen thru steam?

[Skabs]

after 2 years of not playing come back and still "due to recent purchase activity (zen puchased thru steam) your account cannot sell zen on exchange" and thats just one of the restrictions for spending money on this game...seriously?

[Vellari]

Money goes through a third party (Valve) causing a transaction delay. To avoid credit card fraud, any items bought ingame with said Zen is essentially put into "escrow" until the payment actually goes through. Same cannot be done with Dilithium exchange so that's just prevented all together for the duration of probation.

[Nenoic]

ive been gone 8 years and same thing. i could not sell or trade purposes because of the restrictions that gold buyers/ sellers use. its fully pay to win if you want the good stuff otherwise its years of farming 24/7... best thing is to find another game thats not made my arc/cryptic/ perfectworld international... they just screw you the second they know you exist

[Maj_Cyric]

Originally posted by Basi:

ive been gone 8 years and same thing. i could not sell or trade purposes because of the restrictions that gold buyers/ sellers use. its fully pay to win if you want the good stuff otherwise its years of farming 24/7... best thing is to find another game thats not made my arc/cryptic/ perfectworld international... they just screw you the second they know you exist

Pay to win? win what exactly? No one claiming that it's pay to win can give me a logically factual reason regarding the how/why/what...

Because there lots of players who proudly declare they are just as able to buy and have all the things that players who spend money on the game has, and haven't spent a cent on STO..

[Shaila]

Originally posted by Maj_Cyric:

Originally posted by Basi:

ive been gone 8 years and same thing. i could not sell or trade purposes because of the restrictions that gold buyers/ sellers use. its fully pay to win if you want the good stuff otherwise its years of farming 24/7... best thing is to find another game thats not made my arc/cryptic/ perfectworld international... they just screw you the second they know you exist

Pay to win? win what exactly? No one claiming that it's pay to win can give me a logically factual reason regarding the how/why/what...

Because there lots of players who proudly declare they are just as able to buy and have all the things that players who spend money on the game has, and haven't spent a cent on STO..

Game is far from p2w, most my stuff (zen ships exc) are from converting delithum (which is earned by doing missions / tfo's) to zen via the delithum exchange

[ImperatorPavel]

Originally posted by Maj_Cyric:

Originally posted by Basi:

ive been gone 8 years and same thing. i could not sell or trade purposes because of the restrictions that gold buyers/ sellers use. its fully pay to win if you want the good stuff otherwise its years of farming 24/7... best thing is to find another game thats not made my arc/cryptic/ perfectworld international... they just screw you the second they know you exist

Pay to win? win what exactly? No one claiming that it's pay to win can give me a logically factual reason regarding the how/why/what...

Because there lots of players who proudly declare they are just as able to buy and have all the things that players who spend money on the game has, and haven't spent a cent on STO..

STO usually doesn't explain the existence of the dilithium exchange (ignoring the fact that it's pretty high right now anyway), but Cryptic is happy to show you a bunch of C-store stuff that you can buy. Given that, and Cryptic's insistence on not giving players a decent ship after their freebie Tier 5 starts falling off in terms of effectiveness (ignoring the T6 M'chla from Klingon Recruitment for the moment), I can see why people believe STO is pay to win.

Usually what you're winning is faster PvE completion, seemingly.

Point being STO doesn't really show new players that there are ways to get endgame/lockbox/lobi gear for free.

[Maj_Cyric]

Yes i know it's not Pay2Win... I was saying (or thought i was) that people that call STO pay2win can't explain in any logical form of how it is p2w etc etc... Many of can't even give a proper definition of what Pay2Win is or what it means..

[[FuFo] Mortucus]

Originally posted by ImperatorPavel:

Originally posted by Maj_Cyric:

Pay to win? win what exactly? No one claiming that it's pay to win can give me a logically factual reason regarding the how/why/what...

Because there lots of players who proudly declare they are just as able to buy and have all the things that players who spend money on the game has, and haven't spent a cent on STO..

STO usually doesn't explain the existence of the dilithium exchange (ignoring the fact that it's pretty high right now anyway), but Cryptic is happy to show you a bunch of C-store stuff that you can buy. Given that, and Cryptic's insistence on not giving players a decent ship after their freebie Tier 5 starts falling off in terms of effectiveness (ignoring the T6 M'chla from Klingon Recruitment for the moment), I can see why people believe STO is pay to win.

Usually what you're winning is faster PvE completion, seemingly.

Point being STO doesn't really show new players that there are ways to get endgame/lockbox/lobi gear for free.

they give away free t6 ships all the time
new players are not ment to have END game ships and builds
i bought zen last week on steam and was able to sell it straight away on the market

pay to win what its a pve game
you want to ♥♥♥♥♥ about something no account bank space unless you pay not even 4 slots none
thats something to complain about

[ImperatorPavel]

Originally posted by FuFo Mortucus:

Originally posted by ImperatorPavel:

STO usually doesn't explain the existence of the dilithium exchange (ignoring the fact that it's pretty high right now anyway), but Cryptic is happy to show you a bunch of C-store stuff that you can buy. Given that, and Cryptic's insistence on not giving players a decent ship after their freebie Tier 5 starts falling off in terms of effectiveness (ignoring the T6 M'chla from Klingon Recruitment for the moment), I can see why people believe STO is pay to win.

Usually what you're winning is faster PvE completion, seemingly.

Point being STO doesn't really show new players that there are ways to get endgame/lockbox/lobi gear for free.

they give away free t6 ships all the time
new players are not ment to have END game ships and builds
i bought zen last week on steam and was able to sell it straight away on the market

pay to win what its a pve game
you want to ♥♥♥♥♥ about something no account bank space unless you pay not even 4 slots none
thats something to complain about

Point being there's nothing in the leveling process that's endgame viable (endgame meaning "doing STFs n stuff like that without blowing up a dozen times"). They do give plenty of free T6s away, but if someone doesn't start playing during the narrow windows to actually get a free T6 then they're SOL.

Would be nice if there was at least a freebie T6 like the M'chla Refit. The Jem starter bugship can be had for 1k dilithium and is T5-U, admittedly, but that's also only a recent thing.

There should also be a few free account bank slots.

[Jaynoble55]

It may not be strictly pay to win. But you can pay to perform. The more money you invest the more powerful you become. And yes, you could spend 5 years to get something you can buy for 50 dollars. Thats not viable if you want to get the "good" stuff and or perform.

Ive yet to see so blatant of pay to power. Many games try to hide it. STO pushs it to the front and center.

Ive spent to much in sto. Well over a grand. But ive enjoyed every minute of it. But I also know I bought my performance.

Paying players have a premium experience. This is intentional.

[Skabs]

so basically they wanted the steam players but not for steam players to purchase thru steam?(sounds a bit underhanded) and they are celebrating 11 years now? I find thier excuses they call "reasons" (on thier site) for it to be rather bogus as well as for what I assume the lack of accountability for thier own "explanations".. Hey, I got a bridge to sell ya, it spans the sf bay =D

[A Fat, Angry Serval]

The last couple times I've purchased Zen, I never encountered this issue. It used to be a pain about a year ago, though.

[Jaq]

Originally posted by Skabs:

so basically they wanted the steam players but not for steam players to purchase thru steam?(sounds a bit underhanded) and they are celebrating 11 years now? I find thier excuses they call "reasons" (on thier site) for it to be rather bogus as well as for what I assume the lack of accountability for thier own "explanations".. Hey, I got a bridge to sell ya, it spans the sf bay =D

What in the world are you possibly insinuating? Do you seriously think that any free-to-play game in the world wants to do anything to discourage cash purchases if they can reasonably avoid it?

This game got absolutely hammered by rampant fraudulent transactions in the past. And they couldn't do anything to punish the perpetrators even after they were caught, because they'd spend their fake money on transferable goods and spread them out among a chain of other accounts, some of which would be innocent players who traded legitimately earned assets for them. It was a mess. That's why it's specifically exchangeable purchases which are delayed for verification. They won't delay purchases that are locked to your account like zen shop starships, because then they can just ban your account if you get caught later and it doesn't affect anyone else.

Once your account has a sufficient history of valid transactions, the algorithm will deem your account trustworthy and lift the restrictions. People who've spent real money on their account aren't going to want to lose it. However, they might deem you a risk again if you've gone years without playing, because someone who doesn't care much about playing the game anymore is logically less likely to care about losing their account if they get caught.

[Maj_Cyric]

Originally posted by Jaq:

Once your account has a sufficient history of valid transactions, the algorithm will deem your account trustworthy and lift the restrictions. People who've spent real money on their account aren't going to want to lose it. However, they might deem you a risk again if you've gone years without playing, because someone who doesn't care much about playing the game anymore is logically less likely to care about losing their account if they get caught.

And i'd say not just a sufficient history of valid transactions..
But a sufficient history of valid transactions from a consistent source... Meaning from the same PayPal or Credit Card etc.. and not 5 different purchases paid for from 4 different means of payment.. Those kinds of players who buy "goods" in that way, always worries companies about getting notified over a claim that someone's card etc was used without permission etc... And the troubles that a fraud claim causes is something every company would rather avoid, even at the cost of convenience to the wider player base (customers) to do so..

[Skabs]

Originally posted by Jaq:

Originally posted by Skabs:

so basically they wanted the steam players but not for steam players to purchase thru steam?(sounds a bit underhanded) and they are celebrating 11 years now? I find thier excuses they call "reasons" (on thier site) for it to be rather bogus as well as for what I assume the lack of accountability for thier own "explanations".. Hey, I got a bridge to sell ya, it spans the sf bay =D

What in the world are you possibly insinuating? Do you seriously think that any free-to-play game in the world wants to do anything to discourage cash purchases if they can reasonably avoid it?

This game got absolutely hammered by rampant fraudulent transactions in the past. And they couldn't do anything to punish the perpetrators even after they were caught, because they'd spend their fake money on transferable goods and spread them out among a chain of other accounts, some of which would be innocent players who traded legitimately earned assets for them. It was a mess. That's why it's specifically exchangeable purchases which are delayed for verification. They won't delay purchases that are locked to your account like zen shop starships, because then they can just ban your account if you get caught later and it doesn't affect anyone else.

Once your account has a sufficient history of valid transactions, the algorithm will deem your account trustworthy and lift the restrictions. People who've spent real money on their account aren't going to want to lose it. However, they might deem you a risk again if you've gone years without playing, because someone who doesn't care much about playing the game anymore is logically less likely to care about losing their account if they get caught.

explain to me how purchases thru steam can be considered "rampant fraudulent transaction?" because my purchases thru steam are infact funded by paypal that works directly with my bank (same one had 20 yrs) so ... as for sufficent history well..I like others might have spent more then I should have... however your argument is the exact worded comment reply they gave about "thier algorithm" that your repeating - however in all honesty this isnt the first time they played this "GAME" (even after years of purchases from them) in my entire library and every mmo I have ever played thru steam and supported - (thankfully I suppose) this is THE ONLY one that plays it

[ImperatorPavel]

Originally posted by Skabs:

Originally posted by Jaq:

What in the world are you possibly insinuating? Do you seriously think that any free-to-play game in the world wants to do anything to discourage cash purchases if they can reasonably avoid it?

This game got absolutely hammered by rampant fraudulent transactions in the past. And they couldn't do anything to punish the perpetrators even after they were caught, because they'd spend their fake money on transferable goods and spread them out among a chain of other accounts, some of which would be innocent players who traded legitimately earned assets for them. It was a mess. That's why it's specifically exchangeable purchases which are delayed for verification. They won't delay purchases that are locked to your account like zen shop starships, because then they can just ban your account if you get caught later and it doesn't affect anyone else.

Once your account has a sufficient history of valid transactions, the algorithm will deem your account trustworthy and lift the restrictions. People who've spent real money on their account aren't going to want to lose it. However, they might deem you a risk again if you've gone years without playing, because someone who doesn't care much about playing the game anymore is logically less likely to care about losing their account if they get caught.

explain to me how purchases thru steam can be considered "rampant fraudulent transaction?" because my purchases thru steam are infact funded by paypal that works directly with my bank (same one had 20 yrs) so ... as for sufficent history well..I like others might have spent more then I should have... however your argument is the exact worded comment reply they gave about "thier algorithm" that your repeating - however in all honesty this isnt the first time they played this "GAME" (even after years of purchases from them) in my entire library and every mmo I have ever played thru steam and supported - (thankfully I suppose) this is THE ONLY one that plays it

I mean, as I understand it you don't pay PWE/Cryptic for Zen through Steam. You pay Valve, and Valve pays Cryptic/PWE. So if something Steam-side changes in terms of how the payment between Valve -> PWE/Cryptic works, then you're officially paying through an untrusted source, triggering the anti-fraud protection system.

Your best bet is to sign into the website and buy Zen from there if you don't want to be dinged with the anti-fraud protection more than once.