Omni beans vs turrets for escort aft weapons

[ElDestructo]

Generally the argument against mixing cannons and beams is that cannon abilities don’t boost beams and vice versa.

Fair enough. However my ship has more tactical boff slots than most. It would be no issue for me to have beam overload 2 in my mix. For reference, I would also have cannons rapid fire 3, attack pattern beta 2, attack pattern alpha 3, attack pattern lamba 1, tactical team 3, and hold together 1.

I use CRF3, APB2, and TT3 as an alpha strike when making an initial run...against tougher opponents I will add APA3, and Fire On My Mark 3 to my alpha strike. BO2 would simply be added to this mix. I do “beta” strikes with APL1 until cooldowns on the alpha strike are expired.

The fact is that both mission reward and crafted Omni beams have superior dps to turrets. Since I can afford to slot BO2, is there any reason I shouldn’t convert my aft weapons to Omni beams? I’m looking at the trilithium laced Omni, the gamma reputation Omni, and a crafted Omni, with crtd modifiers.

[Splinterfuzz]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Salamand3r-:

If you're talking PvE, the king is AoE and multi target damage - CRF and BO are objectively worse in all ways than CRF and FAW. Single target spike is not ideal.

You'd be just as well off or better off using DBBs instead of DHCs in front and going all beam abilities.

Honestly I don't use DHCs on anything that can't toss a grav well, and then only with CSV and some grav torps with TS. And even then, I still prefer DBBs.

If you're talking PvP, I didn't realize there was an active scene - I'll have to scrape some rust off and justify that legacy War Hero title, and then provide some feedback.

Even then, last I touched it was about a year or so back, and it doesn't look like the meta has changed much - there are simply too many passives these days for resistance and healing for a spike build to have the impact it did back in the old days. You're better off working on some dastardly tricks than relying on oldschool alpha strikes.

The biggest mistake veterans of games do is assume that everyone knows and uses the same acronyms as them or that a new or returning player will know them who might be reading a post out of curiousity. Just saying this to help you out, use the full names of things and reference them to the acronyms at the start before you ramble off 5 game specific acronyms for any game. I try to do it personally as a help to others and I recommend you and others do the same.

[VoodooMike]

Opprinnelig skrevet av "":

Could always toss in the KCB if you're desperate for all 360 degree arc, non-turret weapons in the aft.

It's old-school and not very useful these days (unless you're going for the set bonus, which is also not that useful), but it does obviate the need to leave a turret still back there.

The OP's question was whether or not omnis would improve his DPS over turrets.. not a statement that he was desperate to get rid of the turrets. The Kinetic Cutting Beam will almost always be a DPS loss over any other energy weapon since it deals kinetic damage (reduced 90% by shields) and does not benefit from firing modes like FAW or BO.. and its damage is much closer to a beam weapon than a torpedo.

To get the 2pc set bonus you're usually better off using the torpedo over the KCB, especially on a hit-and-run escort or raider. In fact, the omega torpedo is probably best mounted on the rear for when the ship is flying away to set up for another strafing run... as the first run will have, ostensibly, shredded the shields.

[Salamand3r-]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Splinterfuzz:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Salamand3r-:

If you're talking PvE, the king is AoE and multi target damage - CRF and BO are objectively worse in all ways than CRF and FAW. Single target spike is not ideal.

You'd be just as well off or better off using DBBs instead of DHCs in front and going all beam abilities.

Honestly I don't use DHCs on anything that can't toss a grav well, and then only with CSV and some grav torps with TS. And even then, I still prefer DBBs.

If you're talking PvP, I didn't realize there was an active scene - I'll have to scrape some rust off and justify that legacy War Hero title, and then provide some feedback.

Even then, last I touched it was about a year or so back, and it doesn't look like the meta has changed much - there are simply too many passives these days for resistance and healing for a spike build to have the impact it did back in the old days. You're better off working on some dastardly tricks than relying on oldschool alpha strikes.

The biggest mistake veterans of games do is assume that everyone knows and uses the same acronyms as them or that a new or returning player will know them who might be reading a post out of curiousity. Just saying this to help you out, use the full names of things and reference them to the acronyms at the start before you ramble off 5 game specific acronyms for any game. I try to do it personally as a help to others and I recommend you and others do the same.

Fair.

[Maj_Cyric]

Opprinnelig skrevet av VoodooMike:

The OP's question was whether or not omnis would improve his DPS over turrets.. not a statement that he was desperate to get rid of the turrets. The Kinetic Cutting Beam will almost always be a DPS loss over any other energy weapon since it deals kinetic damage (reduced 90% by shields) and does not benefit from firing modes like FAW or BO.. and its damage is much closer to a beam weapon than a torpedo.

To get the 2pc set bonus you're usually better off using the torpedo over the KCB, especially on a hit-and-run escort or raider. In fact, the omega torpedo is probably best mounted on the rear for when the ship is flying away to set up for another strafing run... as the first run will have, ostensibly, shredded the shields.

This....

Which is was primary reason for me to break the 2 piece set I had be running with, using the Assimilated Module + Kinetic Cutting Beam.. Which both the Cutting Beam and the 2.5% Proc chance from the 2 piece set wasn't worth keeping..

By keeping the Assimilated Module and trading out the Cutting Beam for the Altamid Modified Plasma Omni, and also adding in the Altamid console for a 2 piece set bonus.. The Altamid plasma Omni does benefit from attack upgrades like FaW II and Beam Overload III (unlike the Cutting beam).. Also having a 2 piece set gives the additional power called "Plasma Saturation Bombardment" that is a passive that automatically hits targets apart from what damage the Omni and the Altamid Drone is doing/dealing..

Here is a Screenie of the details of it..
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2174264188

If I used Torps on my ship, I would so get the one that goes in this set, since it's a Modified Kelvin Torpedo with a 4 second recharge time...
And who knows what could change with the passage of time though.. I plan for all options and with my Sensor-Linked DHC Disruptor set i did make a Kelvin Timeline Photon Torpedo, in case I were to reset my Skill build and start using them again (which I would swap out to use the Altamid one)..

But for anyone that does use them...
You might enjoy knowing that the full 3 piece set additional power you get is an active ability called "Starfleet-Altamid Hybrid Arms" granting a 12 second 100% Firing Cycle Haste for Weapons (2 min Cooldown).. I'm not sure how this would work with or stack other things like Emergency Weapon Cycle trait or the D.O.M.I.N.O. console..

[VoodooMike]

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

By keeping the Assimilated Module and trading out the Cutting Beam for the Altamid Modified Plasma Omni, and also adding in the Altamid console for a 2 piece set bonus.. The Altamid plasma Omni does benefit from attack upgrades like FaW II and Beam Overload III (unlike the Cutting beam).. Also having a 2 piece set gives the additional power called "Plasma Saturation Bombardment" that is a passive that automatically hits targets apart from what damage the Omni and the Altamid Drone is doing/dealing..

The 2pc altamid bonus is something that looks good on paper but which performs poorly even in a plasma-focused build. A quick parse of a mob battle using a fully plasma spec'd cruiser with 41% critH and every single console somehow boosting plasma damage put the 2pc proc, called "Plasma Saturation Bombardment" at a whopping 3.4% of the damage dealt... compared to Mycelial Lightning which only hits each target once *ever* which dealt 11.2% of the total damage.

That's using assimilated plasma weapons, which themselves are not the highest damage dealing plasma weapons.. so if you were using DPS-focused weapons, it'd likely be dropped even lower. The altamid drone's performance is about on par with a single chidyat swarmer (one, not one group) spawned by the Hive Defenses space trait.

The altamid set is, overall, a pretty weak set... it's something you field if you're making a plasma beam build because it's the only plasma-focused set there is (and the omni is cheap compared to most). The console is a decent chunk of critH if you need it, but the set bonuses aren't worth the slots.

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

You might enjoy knowing that the full 3 piece set additional power you get is an active ability called "Starfleet-Altamid Hybrid Arms" granting a 12 second 100% Firing Cycle Haste for Weapons (2 min Cooldown).. I'm not sure how this would work with or stack other things like Emergency Weapon Cycle trait or the D.O.M.I.N.O. console..

It'll stack fine with them, though its only 12 seconds (DOMINO is 10). The 20% cycle haste from EWC is going to be up all the time assuming even a basic build using EP2W. As with everything, it'll suffer from diminishing returns... and at 100% weapon haste (which is firing cycles running twice as fast) there's a real danger of having weapon power issues even with usage reduction traits and consoles in place.

[Maj_Cyric]

Oh yeah... I know and understand that using the plasma omni isn't the best weapon to be used with the x5 AP Beam Array x2 Dual Beam Bank set i'm running.. But, it is better than the Cutting beam I had been running for years now... Plus I also spent Lobi on it, so I've at the least I feel a need to use it some before I store on one of my "Storage-Ships", which is a ship with 8 weapon slots + 10+ console slots that sits in my shipyard holding sets and stuff... And was more than likely a ship that was bought just for its Trait and/or Console...

I"m almost certain that if i were to drop one of the two Ba'ul Antiproton Beam Array Mk XV [CrtD/Dm] [CrtD]x4 that i've been trying/testing out, in that aft slot, it would easily outperform the DPS that the Omni is/can do, as a 3rd aft Beam Array..

I'm also not trying to "set" any records or anything.. Long long long ago I was interested in chasing that "Dragon", but when you see first hand the kind of DPS output that a player like Carys@Eldkatt can do.. Nope, one most know when to tip their hat and just learn what can be learned, and I follow and observe what things DPS League members are doing and using...

[VoodooMike]

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

I"m almost certain that if i were to drop one of the two Ba'ul Antiproton Beam Array Mk XV [CrtD/Dm] [CrtD]x4 that i've been trying/testing out, in that aft slot, it would easily outperform the DPS that the Omni is/can do, as a 3rd aft Beam Array..

I actually meant use ba'ul antiproton in place of the normal antiproton beam arrays. If you get two piece of the ba'ul lobi set it dramatically improves the output of ALL antiproton beams, but especially ba'ul antiproton weapons. Plus.. y'know... they fill the sky with red beams because of the refraction (especially with the 2pc lobi bonus that doubles the number of chained beams per shot).

I'm a ba'ul antiproton fanboy, though.. I switched my donnie build away from pulse phasers to ba'ul antiproton and I still feel badass every time I wade into battle... and god help them if I can stay in one place and go into Sentry Mode. That dishes out apocalyptic damage, even after having been nerfed.

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

I'm also not trying to "set" any records or anything.. Long long long ago I was interested in chasing that "Dragon", but when you see first hand the kind of DPS output that a player like Carys@Eldkatt can do.. Nope, one most know when to tip their hat and just learn what can be learned, and I follow and observe what things DPS League members are doing and using...

It's not about setting records, and I don't think that DPS is the defining metric for STO despite it being the only thing people seem to work with. The key is to make effective builds within one's means and within one's ability to manage boff cooldowns and console and such.

It is possible to play the game with no mind to efficiency... you can mix and match energy types and weapon types with total impunity and still be able to complete most non-queued PVE content.. you just get better results if you don't do that... better results if you do all beams OR all cannons... better results if you use a single energy type for your energy weapons, and so on.

People should play whatever they have fun playing, obviously.. but people usually have more fun when they are more effective.

[Maj_Cyric]

The pair of Ba'ul Antiproton Beam Array Mk XV i have aren't from the Lobi store, they are ones from the weapon box from that "series" lockbox I nabbed off the exchange... I bought a total of 4, but only upgraded 2 so far.. I'd also love to try one or two of the ground weapons from that line (Collecting different ground weapons is my new 'Jam')...

I normally don't buy off the Lobi store unless there is a Lobi sale. Last time I spend Lobi in the lobi store, was 2019 when they had that perfectly timed 50% off lobi sale.. Cause I had almost bought my Fed toon the Kelvin Intel Dread the night before.. But I think RNGJesus was whispering in my ear saying that I should sleep on it.. Waking up the next morning to buy 3 ships with the 3400 Lobi i had saved up, turned into 6 Lobi ships (2 were Husnocks that i gave to people) RNGJesus also then held my hand guiding me to getting 6 Infinity T6 ship Boxes that Spring..

But yes I saw the Ba'ul weapon set in the Lobi store.. and the Omni does look like something that could fit in an Aft slot on my D9.. not sure how i'll fit the console into the build I use though.. Who knows though. Might a hint of a not too distant Lobi "flash sale" sneaking up soon..

And I agree about the whole "Must always make gains in your DPS numbers" life, isn't important... There was a time though, long ago were I was misguided with that mind set.. But learned i'd have to spend a lot more $$ to reach those DPS numbers many of those types are able to reach.. I've spent and do spend an "amount"... enough to fully enjoy STO with a lot of extra bells and many whistles..

[VoodooMike]

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

The pair of Ba'ul Antiproton Beam Array Mk XV i have aren't from the Lobi store, they are ones from the weapon box from that "series" lockbox I nabbed off the exchange... I bought a total of 4, but only upgraded 2 so far..

No, I know they're normal beam arrays not lobi based - the lobi ba'ul equipment is a console, an omni, and a torpedo. Even to do a full ba'ul loadout you'll never need more than 5 beam arrays (with the other 3 slots being the torpedo, the lobi omni, and a lockbox omni.. which is stupid expensive).

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

I normally don't buy off the Lobi store unless there is a Lobi sale. Last time I spend Lobi in the lobi store, was 2019 when they had that perfectly timed 50% off lobi sale..

They had one around christmas this year that was 50% off.. I've only ever seen that once, so I'm not sure I'd expect another anytime soon. It's usually best to save your lobi for equipment rather than ships - lobi ships are cheap on the exchange compared to box or promo ships, and lobi is not that easy to come by in large quantities... though the new event campaigns offer that big chunk of 1000 lobi, which is totally the way to go.

Opprinnelig skrevet av "Maj_Cyric":

But yes I saw the Ba'ul weapon set in the Lobi store.. and the Omni does look like something that could fit in an Aft slot on my D9.. not sure how i'll fit the console into the build I use though.. Who knows though. Might a hint of a not too distant Lobi "flash sale" sneaking up soon..

Your build seems focused almost entirely on critH and critD, with no real focus on boosting base damage. I'm not sure how you gauge your build changes, but you may want to compare that focus with a focus on +AP damage consoles (there are a ton of universal consoles that boost AP damage). I don't think that DPS parsed from ISA is a serious measure of anything objective (despite being the rather ridiculous standard) but comparing your own ship's parses on the same content with and without a change can be helpful. For speed comparisons the ESD portion of the "Midnight" mission is a good, short battle. Alternatively any of the timed-waves discovery patrols or the very recent elachi timed-waves patrol work well.