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What T6 Science ship should I try to get?
Could be from Zen Store or lockbox ship, what's the best?
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VoodooMike 4 aug, 2021 @ 0:57 
Ursprungligen skrivet av Omega Man:
Temporal Agent bundle has you covered for great sci ships and Tos era ships, love that bundle even 5 years after i bought it.

Temporal Special Agent Pack is certainly a good choice for a single-purchase, high-performance set of ships. It's expensive, though, at 15k ZEN, but if someone is patient enough to wait a month or two the packs usually go on sale.

The downside of the pack in this case is that the TOS aesthetic is limited to the various non 32nd century T6 ships which are themselves a bit underwhelming. The 32nd century ships are the ones you'd focus on for performance at T6, but they're ugly and there's no way to change their looks. The base T6 ships have fleet versions, too, meaning the base ships that come with the pack are lesser T6 ships, requiring you to upgrade them to fleet versions to make them on par with T6 ships that lack a fleet version.

For someone who wants to do science nuking and have a TOS aesthetic though, the nautilus is not a bad choice. It's not as strong as the Eternal (which comes with that same pack) but it can use a TOS skin... albeit an ugly one (obviously opinions vary). It does have molecular reconstruction which all the best sci ships do, which is a plus, but you'd need to fly a fleet version.


Ursprungligen skrivet av delta:
So what's the best DPS machine you can build for a reasonable price?

Depends on your definition of "reasonable", of course. The least expensive and least effort to damage ratio build would likely be any 5/x escort/raider type ship with a DHC build (4 DHC in the front, 1 torp front, 2-3 turrets in the back).

In STO people like to focus on the damage numbers but only because that's an easily obtained metric - it's not a GOOD metric, though, as the numbers you'll produce depend heavily on the content, and damage is only important in so much as it can clear away enemies. AOE will generate bigger aggregate numbers, but not necessarily clear away dangerous enemies as quickly as sequential single-target damage.

So ultimately you should focus on being able to efficiently clear content first - get to the point where you can kill all the baddies without being killed yourself or failing objectives - then you can worry about numbers.
Omega Man 4 aug, 2021 @ 4:09 
We are almost into the sale times anyway so wait until a sale before you grab any bundles is my motto, and i think i got this for either 8000 or 10000 zen at the time, plus not to mention all the uniforms and extra stuff that came with it, it really is a cracking bundle and one that should be at the top of anyone's list for grinding towards. :steamhappy:
Ursprungligen skrivet av ImperatorPavel:
https://www.sto-league.com/science-ships-in-the-current-century/

I'm personally quite fond of my Palatine Multi-Mission Reconnaissance Explorer, even if it isn't meta.

What exactly are you looking for in a science ship?
which begs the question to make a really good science ship I have to have an tactical captain and an engineer captain will totally lose on this idea?
Like are we talking just not top dps or are we talking huge lose on dps or is just because one or two traits other captains cant have?

Like I'd like to have at least one Science ship with an fun gravity well build but just for that pushing and leveling and spending a lot of EC in a secondary twink, I dont know.
Senast ändrad av Jordan_Peterson; 4 aug, 2021 @ 4:31
VoodooMike 4 aug, 2021 @ 5:10 
Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
which begs the question to make a really good science ship I have to have an tactical captain and an engineer captain will totally lose on this idea?

Captain career is almost totally irrelevant to space performance. Tactical captains get attack pattern alpha which can boost damage temporarily, and while it's a decent short-term boost it's hardly going to be the difference between the top spot on a team and not.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
Like I'd like to have at least one Science ship with an fun gravity well build but just for that pushing and leveling and spending a lot of EC in a secondary twink, I dont know.

Get yourself the Eternal - it's affordable and strong, and comes with a decent exotic-boosting console (that is, alas, limited to that ship). Assuming you're in a decent fleet you can fill the science slots up with +EPG/+CtrlX consoles. Gravity Well's radius is affected by CtrlX, so you want a fair amount of it... after that EPG for damage.

Then hit up the exchange and get any of the following consoles that don't cost more than you're comfortable spending:

Constriction Anchor (+25.3% exotic damage)
Delphic Tear Generator (+20% exotic damage)
Hull Image Refractors (+20% ALL damage) <-- everyone should have one

There are plenty of other exotic-boosting universal consoles out there, though most come from ships or events and are not as easily obtained.


Ursprungligen skrivet av VoodooMike:
Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
which begs the question to make a really good science ship I have to have an tactical captain and an engineer captain will totally lose on this idea?

Captain career is almost totally irrelevant to space performance. Tactical captains get attack pattern alpha which can boost damage temporarily, and while it's a decent short-term boost it's hardly going to be the difference between the top spot on a team and not.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
Like I'd like to have at least one Science ship with an fun gravity well build but just for that pushing and leveling and spending a lot of EC in a secondary twink, I dont know.

Get yourself the Eternal - it's affordable and strong, and comes with a decent exotic-boosting console (that is, alas, limited to that ship). Assuming you're in a decent fleet you can fill the science slots up with +EPG/+CtrlX consoles. Gravity Well's radius is affected by CtrlX, so you want a fair amount of it... after that EPG for damage.

Then hit up the exchange and get any of the following consoles that don't cost more than you're comfortable spending:

Constriction Anchor (+25.3% exotic damage)
Delphic Tear Generator (+20% exotic damage)
Hull Image Refractors (+20% ALL damage) <-- everyone should have one

There are plenty of other exotic-boosting universal consoles out there, though most come from ships or events and are not as easily obtained.
Is there also a good bundle you can recommend if you want to get into really nice science vessel builds?

That guide is recomending the Verne Temporal Science Vessel which obviously is a Lockbox ship and hard to get.

https://www.sto-league.com/science-ships-in-the-current-century/
Senast ändrad av Jordan_Peterson; 5 aug, 2021 @ 7:37
The Eternal is a Zen store ship, as are the Intrepid/Pathfinder, Dauntless, Scryer, Somerville, Grissom, and Nebula/Sutherland types. There's also the Brigid/Palatine/Esquiline trio.

Which is better than the others is largely a question of exactly what you want to do with it, though if you go by specs, the Temporal and Intel spec ships are probably the most useful. (Intel because you can spike your anomalies with Override Subsystem Safeties.)

The Eternal is sold as part of the 31st Century bundle (with a raider and a dreadnought); the Pathfinder (T6 Intrepid) is sold as part of a bundle with the lower tier Intrepids (to unlock all the skins and consoles; the bundle also includes two ship interiors); the Scryer and Dauntless are in the Delta expansion pack. The Brigid/Palatine/Esquiline trio is a bundle by itself.

VooDooMike - is there a significant difference between the Hull Image Refractors and the Ominous Device? (just wondering as the Ominous recently had its ship limit removed, and is available free to me via the 10th anniversary pack; it appears to have the same +20%?).
Senast ändrad av cap-boulanger; 5 aug, 2021 @ 8:56
VoodooMike 6 aug, 2021 @ 2:00 
Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
Is there also a good bundle you can recommend if you want to get into really nice science vessel builds?

Not really - the components (traits, consoles, etc) that go into the strongest possible science builds are found piecemeal across a great many ships, few of which are ever bundled together in any way. STO's big bundles are usually multi-tier jumbles of ships, and their small bundles are usually 3 versions of a similar ship, either divided by faction or into tac/sci/eng leanings.

If you want to make a serious science build then there are a few things you should work toward getting. These aren't everything you could possibly want, but they're still within reasonable reach for the average player:

Improved Gravity Well (starship trait)

Best obtained from the Dewan Ikkabar Pilot Escort (since romulan ships can be claimed on both Fed and KDF characters... though if you get a KDF to 60 it no longer matters). This is a must-have as it doubles the duration of your primary nuke AND reduces its cooldown by 20 seconds. Essentially lets you get GW3 to have a duration equal to its cooldown so you always have one going.

Particle Manipulator (space trait)

Obtained by getting your Science R&D level to 15. Also a must have, especially since it doesn't take up a starship trait slot. This will essentially give you +50% to your CritH on Exotic abilities, and a bunch of +CritD to them as well.

Gravimetric Scientist (Gravity Well version) (Duty Officer)

A very, very high chance (54% cumulative, approx) of creating one or more additional gravity wells over the duration of your gravity well. You can't argue with getting more gravity wells. You can only slot one of these doffs, and there's no reason not to use one of your 6 space slots for it.

Matter-Antimatter Specialist (Gravity Well version) (Duty Officer)

More personal preference than necessary, Gravity Well damage has a 20% chance per tick of knocking an enemies engines offline for 1 second. Mostly useful for those fast-moving enemies who think they might fly out of your 12km radius black hole of death - everyone ends up in the middle.

A good Inhibiting Secondary Deflector (secondary deflector)

A big hit (5 digits at least) of radiation damage added to your gravity well's already formidable damage over time. The secondary deflector can provide significant increases to EPG and CtrlX too, which you obviously want when you can get it.

The Ruin of Our Enemies

No longer so easily obtained since they eliminated the equipment boxes, I'm going to mention it anyway as it is possibly the best starship trait in the game. Every time you destroy an enemy you get +2% bonus damage for 30 seconds... and there are no limits on the number of stacks you can get, though contrary to what the wiki page says the timers do not reset with each stack, they are independent of one another. It is not unusual for this trait to result in quadrupling your damage by the end of a protracted battle.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
That guide is recomending the Verne Temporal Science Vessel which obviously is a Lockbox ship and hard to get.

The Verne is basically the best possible science ship in the game, is why. While it is a lockbox ship, it is also available through the "Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Pack" which is purchased with ZEN, which it is available... though admittedly the Mudd packs are expensive, and should never be bought at full price.

The Eternal is a close second, having been the best science vessel for years before the Verne showed up, and is a straight ZEN ship that you can buy for 3000 ZEN (or less if there's a ship sale).

The difference in their capabilities is pretty minimal, all things considered, so don't stress yourself out about not having the Verne versus using the Eternal. The real differences will be in your traits, consoles, and so on.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "cap-boulanger":
VooDooMike - is there a significant difference between the Hull Image Refractors and the Ominous Device? (just wondering as the Ominous recently had its ship limit removed, and is available free to me via the 10th anniversary pack; it appears to have the same +20%?).

Yes, they are significantly different in that they have different names and are different consoles. The reason I didn't mention the Ominous Device is that unlike HIR, it is not easily obtained on the Exchange, requiring instead a promo box ship or the big legendary ship pack that, when not discounted significantly, costs more ZEN than you can actually buy in one purchase (PW limits the amount you can buy in a 3 day period).

Both HIR and OD provide +20% to all damage, and are not ship-restricted. They can both be slotted on the same ship at the same time, and if you own both you probably should have both installed on every ship. It'll be hard to find 5-6 consoles that provide better overall bonuses such that you wouldn't have space for them in a build.
Vevvev 6 aug, 2021 @ 17:25 
Might not be the meta but I really love my Scryer Intel Science Ship. Eventually a friend gave me a Section 31 Intel Science Destroyer which I currently use, but that one is much harder to get. They make good platforms for EPG builds.
Ursprungligen skrivet av VoodooMike:
Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
Is there also a good bundle you can recommend if you want to get into really nice science vessel builds?

Not really - the components (traits, consoles, etc) that go into the strongest possible science builds are found piecemeal across a great many ships, few of which are ever bundled together in any way. STO's big bundles are usually multi-tier jumbles of ships, and their small bundles are usually 3 versions of a similar ship, either divided by faction or into tac/sci/eng leanings.

If you want to make a serious science build then there are a few things you should work toward getting. These aren't everything you could possibly want, but they're still within reasonable reach for the average player:

Improved Gravity Well (starship trait)

Best obtained from the Dewan Ikkabar Pilot Escort (since romulan ships can be claimed on both Fed and KDF characters... though if you get a KDF to 60 it no longer matters). This is a must-have as it doubles the duration of your primary nuke AND reduces its cooldown by 20 seconds. Essentially lets you get GW3 to have a duration equal to its cooldown so you always have one going.

Particle Manipulator (space trait)

Obtained by getting your Science R&D level to 15. Also a must have, especially since it doesn't take up a starship trait slot. This will essentially give you +50% to your CritH on Exotic abilities, and a bunch of +CritD to them as well.

Gravimetric Scientist (Gravity Well version) (Duty Officer)

A very, very high chance (54% cumulative, approx) of creating one or more additional gravity wells over the duration of your gravity well. You can't argue with getting more gravity wells. You can only slot one of these doffs, and there's no reason not to use one of your 6 space slots for it.

Matter-Antimatter Specialist (Gravity Well version) (Duty Officer)

More personal preference than necessary, Gravity Well damage has a 20% chance per tick of knocking an enemies engines offline for 1 second. Mostly useful for those fast-moving enemies who think they might fly out of your 12km radius black hole of death - everyone ends up in the middle.

A good Inhibiting Secondary Deflector (secondary deflector)

A big hit (5 digits at least) of radiation damage added to your gravity well's already formidable damage over time. The secondary deflector can provide significant increases to EPG and CtrlX too, which you obviously want when you can get it.

The Ruin of Our Enemies

No longer so easily obtained since they eliminated the equipment boxes, I'm going to mention it anyway as it is possibly the best starship trait in the game. Every time you destroy an enemy you get +2% bonus damage for 30 seconds... and there are no limits on the number of stacks you can get, though contrary to what the wiki page says the timers do not reset with each stack, they are independent of one another. It is not unusual for this trait to result in quadrupling your damage by the end of a protracted battle.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "Gen-Rusher Carlton":
That guide is recomending the Verne Temporal Science Vessel which obviously is a Lockbox ship and hard to get.

The Verne is basically the best possible science ship in the game, is why. While it is a lockbox ship, it is also available through the "Mudd's Stealing Time Choice Pack" which is purchased with ZEN, which it is available... though admittedly the Mudd packs are expensive, and should never be bought at full price.

The Eternal is a close second, having been the best science vessel for years before the Verne showed up, and is a straight ZEN ship that you can buy for 3000 ZEN (or less if there's a ship sale).

The difference in their capabilities is pretty minimal, all things considered, so don't stress yourself out about not having the Verne versus using the Eternal. The real differences will be in your traits, consoles, and so on.

Ursprungligen skrivet av "cap-boulanger":
VooDooMike - is there a significant difference between the Hull Image Refractors and the Ominous Device? (just wondering as the Ominous recently had its ship limit removed, and is available free to me via the 10th anniversary pack; it appears to have the same +20%?).

Yes, they are significantly different in that they have different names and are different consoles. The reason I didn't mention the Ominous Device is that unlike HIR, it is not easily obtained on the Exchange, requiring instead a promo box ship or the big legendary ship pack that, when not discounted significantly, costs more ZEN than you can actually buy in one purchase (PW limits the amount you can buy in a 3 day period).

Both HIR and OD provide +20% to all damage, and are not ship-restricted. They can both be slotted on the same ship at the same time, and if you own both you probably should have both installed on every ship. It'll be hard to find 5-6 consoles that provide better overall bonuses such that you wouldn't have space for them in a build.
WoW
nice overview! Thank you.
I remember now why science builds were considered "more" expensive than others.
You need a variety of other ships to get all the stuff you need.


I cant wait for the next ZEN discount, the only reason that keeps me from not spending more money right now ;)

Next on my to do list is getting CombatLogReader working and do a whole day of testing consoles and ship builds I have.

Next: Find a cool ship I want to fly forever and adapt my best build on that ship

3rd step later this year: get me a nice science vessel and make it a cool gravity well spammer ;)
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