If there was a Champions Online 2 what would you want in it?

[Dominic Paine]

I would star with a larger city to explore and additional power sets. Water based, spear/bo-staff, claws that don't look like cr@p...

What would you guys want to add?

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

Jivebot eredeti hozzászólása:

We absolutely do not need Champions Online 2. That's just Overwatch 2. An excuse for them to milk us for money and invalidate all that people have already invested in this game.

All we need them to do is implement common sense quality-of-life features in Champions Online 1.

Maybe fix a bug for the first time in 10 years? That'd be nice.

~~We absolute do not need Champions Online. That's just City of Heroes 2. An excuse for Cryptic Studios to milk us for money and invalidate all that people have already invested in City of Heroes.~~

City of Heroes;
Endurance, Recovery, Resistance, Defense == directly ripped from Champions RPG.
Statesmen/Positron == directly inserted from their respective Champions RPG campaigns into City of Heroes lore.

There is also that the people being pushed onto Champions Online. Happen to be 18 years separated from Fight Club (Marvel Universe Online/Champions Online).

Premium MMORPGs:
Tencent - Moonlight Blade
Netease - Sword of Justice / Condor Heroes
Perfect World - World of Jade Dynasty
It only takes one developer to move to Superhero away from Wuxia/Xianxia. Instant we see a game PV that fuses Gacha cinematics with Superhero MMORPGs. It's pretty much game over, as the recovery time of losing the market is large.
PV1, 3:45 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K47elku8YdI PV2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4W2A19SMak Blizzard(Overwatch/Titan) and Riot(Star Guardian/Superheroes Versus Supervillains/Silver Age/Super Galaxy) tease Superhero and the gacha games are power-creeping. It is inevitable that they will release Superhero MMORPGs after the success of Marvel Rivals.

Which is the main reason to do Champions Online 2. As not to use an old game that was never successful to compete. To instead opt for a newer game to compete against the new onslaught. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRe-YO2VQZI Instant Netease announces Marvel Universe Online. As their main market is MMORPGs.

[Chris]

Look at that which is successful. Just do a Marvel Rivals clone, but with fully customizable heroes. If you don't want to do that, at least import all those assets into Unreal 5 and licence them on the FAB store to other developers. Or do both. Import all the assets, licencing them as you go to finance ongoing development work.

[Crowbot]

Personally, I'm not really interested in a game that's just an arena fighter with customizable heroes, I want to feel like a superhero. I want them to lean into RPG and simulation elements.
On top of that I feel like that's a crowded market

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

Crowbot eredeti hozzászólása:

Personally, I'm not really interested in a game that's just an arena fighter with customizable heroes, I want to feel like a superhero. I want them to lean into RPG and simulation elements.
On top of that I feel like that's a crowded market

Arena fighters that are MMORPGs are possible.

Continent of the Ninth (2009)
Vindictus (2010)
Black Desert Online (2014)
Twilight Spirits (2017)
Archeage Chronicles
Perfect New World/Perfect World Next
Tower of Fantasy
Crystal of Atlan
etc.

Champions Online 2 definitely needs to focus on RPG/Simulation aspects. https://store.steampowered.com/app/3531260/Superhero_Simulator/ <<Being a hero doesn’t pay the bills—so you’ll need a job to survive. Drive a taxi, flip burgers, or find other ways to earn money Every "Gollar" counts, whether it’s for food, or upgrading your gear. Balance your heroic duties with everyday struggles.>>

https://overwatch.fandom.com/wiki/Project_Titan <<Its gameplay was a mix of MMO and FPS elements, along with the "calming vibes" of The Sims.>> Swap FPS with Action RPG/Third Person Shooter. << Players would have a home with different furniture, would be able to have a fireplace that would open up into a secret cave, driving in their car, going out into futuristic cities, talk to NPCs, and fight against various factions. >> and << Civilian activities within the game included fishing, farming, photography, gardening, and hacking. Players would be able to deck out a house with furniture, run a business, and go on quests in their neighborhoods. These activities took place in what Blizzard called "Titan Town," which Jason Schreier described as a take on The Sims and Animal Crossing. >>

Where there needs additional gameplay other than just Heroics/Superheroics.

The issue that is going to hit Champions Online hard and Champions Online 2;
"AAA" MMORPG (Cryptic Studios -> 2K Games -> Atari -> Perfect World Entertainment -> Gearbox Publishing(PWE-reskin) -> Arc Games (PWE-reskin)) to AA MMORPG (DECA Games)

Yet, we still do not have a cinematic trailer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pI3kAOZ7mJQ Coffee Stain & Friends -> DECA Games (Champions Online/Champions IP). Which is technically already in place: "For “Coffee Stain & Friends”, Anton Westbergh, current CEO of the operative group Coffee Stain, will take the leading role in the process leading up to the separation. The Operative Group CEOs of DECA Games, Easybrain, Amplifier Game Invest and THQ Nordic will report to Anton Westbergh starting April 22, 2024."

It is going to be hard attracting players if the next Superhero MMORPGs do this; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYIIm_DQ60g Dimensional Ink Games (DC Universe Online) = 29~33 employees
DECA Games (Champions Online) = ~4 employees
At most, for a Superhero MMORPG from the big three: PW/TC/NE
2000 employees
>$1B budget (Pentuple-A is the largest that can be done safely in China)
It is probably going to be the largest bloodbath in history. If they Kung Fu Panda us.

[razberrie]

I dont want a CO2 ... I want CO to continue.

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

razberrie eredeti hozzászólása:

I dont want a CO2 ... I want CO to continue.

Champions Online literally has to continue. It is part of the purchase of the intellectual property.

Guild Wars 1 -> Guild Wars 2, where the second game greatly outperforms the first;
~$155 mil for GW1, 2005-2024
~$834 mil for GW2, 2012-2024

GW1 -> GW2 = 7 years
OW1 -> OW2 = 6 years
COH -> CO -> CO2 = 5 years, 18+ years (2009 -> 2024+3 to 2024+5)
Champions Online was not safe to release. While, Champions Online 2 would be safe to release.

DECA Games does the same thing as Cryptic Studios = Closure guaranteed
DECA Games does something different = Chance of survival

There is literally too much negative energy with Champions Online. It is literally impossible to fix Champions Online. As it has at least 17 years of developers actively being hostile to players.

So, it is better to disassociate with the first product. Instead make a second product without the negative association.

[fallenj]

For a sequel? Probably a legit sequel to the game but keeping to the goofy cartoony feel of the first.

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

fallenj eredeti hozzászólása:

For a sequel? Probably a legit sequel to the game but keeping to the goofy cartoony feel of the first.

While it looks cartoony it isn't actually cartoony.
City of Heroes = Action Figure
Champions Online = Action Figure with "comic shading"
Where you can see the generic City of Heroes-style especially in Star Trek Online, Neverwinter, and Magic: Legends. Since, all these games are using the Cryptic Engine. As well as realizing how little effort was actually put into Champions Online.

Where Marvel Rivals and Overwatch are more accurate to the general Superhero cartoon style.
Where the only Cartoon-style game done by Cryptic is Project 12/UE5 aka the "Don Bluth" game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTScutxONDA Move this artstyle to Champions Online 2. It would probably do way, way better than Champions Online.

Champions in 3-D: Fantasy World (Champions 4th Edition team versus Orges)
https://i.imgur.com/kMLWt01.jpeg
Lucha Libre Hero => LUCHA LIBRE IN OTHER GENRES AND
METAGENRES => Champions ......................................... 90 => Superheroic Lucha Characters ........ 156 Ex:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgdhWQ5aL0s Cartoon-y via heavy Japanese-leaning artstyle by Chinese devs. It is really annoying the only people doing Superheroes correctly in games are China, Korea, and Japan.

[Crowbot]

I turn off the comic shading anyway... Actually that's an idea, they could expand options on how the game presents everything. There is no singular "comic style" so having things vary depending on character origin and even map type would be interesting.

I think the goal should be to allow players to make the widest range of characters, from cartoony to dead serious.

[Brou]

More restrictive loadout (keep max active powers on tray down to about 7-9. Keep the amount of powers)
Mobile build of the game that has touch controls.
More base head meshes that align with different stylized archetypes in comic books (big brain, the hardened brute, grizzled, young, etc. Not just textures, actual morphological distinct heads)

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

Crowbot eredeti hozzászólása:

I turn off the comic shading anyway... Actually that's an idea, they could expand options on how the game presents everything. There is no singular "comic style" so having things vary depending on character origin and even map type would be interesting.

I think the goal should be to allow players to make the widest range of characters, from cartoony to dead serious.

It is important to have a generic homogeneous artstyle. Rather than multiple specific ones, especially since who ever owns Champions Online has;
1. Champions IP
2. Hero System License (Fantasy Hero, Star Hero, etc)

With that it is important to be more restrictive like Neverwinter. Than to be as freeform as Champions Online, where players can break the style. What can be or can not be done is best resolved by the developers, not the players.

So, Giant-sized body type needs to have RPG mechanics. Thus, it needs to be selectable in the MMORPG as a template;
GIant Template
Cost :: Ability
30 :: +30 STR
14 :: +14 CON
10 :: +10 PRE
6 :: +6 PD
6 :: +6 ED
10 :: +10 BODY
12 :: Heavy: Knockback Resistance -12m
24 :: Giant’s Legs: Running +24m
3 :: Reach: Reach +3m
Total Cost Of Template Abilities: 115
Physical Complication: Enormous (+4 OCV for others to hit, +4 to PER Rolls for others to perceive) ==> Giants have lower dodge/stealth, but have higher PD/ED/KB resistance.

This goes the other way for very small body type;
Sprite Template
Cost :: Ability
-9 :: -9 STR
8 :: +4 DEX
-5 :: -5 CON
-8 :: -8 PRE
10 :: +2 OCV
40 :: +8 DCV
10 :: +1 SPD
11 :: Sprite’s Wings: Flight 16m; Restrainable (-½)
-10 :: Short Legs: Running -10m (2m total)
19 :: Stealth (DEX Roll +8)
Total Cost Of Template Abilities: 66
Physical Complication: Minuscule (.125m; +24m KB) (Frequently, Greatly Impairing) ==> Hit hard by knockback, while having higher DCV = dodge chance.

Where this needs to be reflected on for Champions Online 2. Looking at Fantasy/Sci-fi MMORPGs to copy from. As the RPG->MMORPG would need tweaking.

Brou eredeti hozzászólása:

More restrictive loadout (keep max active powers on tray down to about 7-9. Keep the amount of powers)

I think we are pretty much stuck in the Action MOBA=Action MMORPG era. So, the powers should be around SMITE<->Neverwinter<->Predecessor(Paragon/Fault/etc). Neverwinter's precursor/prototype game was a MOBA/competitive PvP game. For example, the MOBA gameplay mode hasn't been shown yet. But, this is an Action MOBA MMORPG; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NUiSkkk8_U Basic Attack, four standard attacks (has combos which can convert standard attacks to combo attacks), one ultimate, dodge, jump, etc. Also, posted this because I am pretty sure chain/whip-based powers need to be that.

Brou eredeti hozzászólása:

Mobile build of the game that has touch controls.

It should be PC, Console, Mobile for maximum market saturation.

Brou eredeti hozzászólása:

More base head meshes that align with different stylized archetypes in comic books (big brain, the hardened brute, grizzled, young, etc. Not just textures, actual morphological distinct heads)

This falls under the more restrictive character creation, I posted in the first half. Where in Neverwinter "Customize Appearance" -> "Head" option, where the options are easily select-able. With little to no work by the user/player.

[Crowbot]

MysteryGrayLeaf eredeti hozzászólása:

With that it is important to be more restrictive like Neverwinter. Than to be as freeform as Champions Online, where players can break the style. What can be or can not be done is best resolved by the developers, not the players.

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll just point out that I stopped playing Neverwinter a long time ago, so clearly I'm not too keen on them bringing DnD style restriction to this very different system. In fact I don't think I have a single archetype character, they're all freeform, trying to come up with new character setups is what kept me coming back to the game for all these years.

[MysteryGrayLeaf]

Crowbot eredeti hozzászólása:

We'll have to agree to disagree. I'll just point out that I stopped playing Neverwinter a long time ago, so clearly I'm not too keen on them bringing DnD style restriction to this very different system. In fact I don't think I have a single archetype character, they're all freeform, trying to come up with new character setups is what kept me coming back to the game for all these years.

I meant the restriction on character's visual form not their powers.

It is specifically:
Race selection -> Appearance Presets -> Customize -> every option but the scaling stuff.

Freeform in quote is the above. Where these options were removed from Champions Online;
Choose your face: Basic, Beast, Elf, Narrow, Slim, Strong, Tank, Wide
Choose your body: Acrobat, Beast, Brawler, Brick, Slim, Stretchy, Strong, Vixen

Basically, more inline with advancements of Neverwinter's character customization on-top of Champions Online. Even ignoring Fantasy Hero/Star Hero races/species inserts there is still Champions Beyond's humanoid alien species.

As going into archetype/freeform gets esoteric real quick. However, I still feel that City of Heroes split of archetypes is the ideal route. But, it should be single power set rather dual power set at start.

If following Champions Online leveling with City of Heroes more aggressively broken up.
Lv 1 = First mechanical powerset (Champions focuses more on mechanics than VFX)
Lv 15 = Second mechanical powerset
Lv 35 = Third mechanical powerset
The closest system would probably be ArcheAge. However it has fixed VFX for its archetypes. Where Champions Online would need to be unfixed on its VFX.

Where all three mechanical power sets can share the same VFX;
Fire, Water, Ice, Earth, Wood, Air, Electric, Light, Physical, etc.
Or, be split VFX;
Fire+Electric+Physical

However, going through that it probably needs to be;
Mechanic :: VFX Animation Style -> Actual VFX.
For Martial Arts <-> Brick for melee and Energy Projector <-> Technology for ranged. With mysticism leaning towards technology because of Foci.

With that I feel that we can just wait for China to figure it out for us.
Zenless Zone Zero = May 2022 // Singleplayer-focused
Neverness to Everness/Project Mugen(Ananta) = June 2024/August 2023(November 2024) // Coop-focused, both of them having::
- Character customization: Create and customize your own character, choosing gender, appearance, and initial abilities
- Supernatural abilities system: Players can unlock and upgrade various superpowers, from telepathy to elemental control, each with its unique gameplay and strategies.
- Fashion elements: Clothing and accessories in the game follow fashion trends, allowing players to create personalized character images.

Where a MMORPG with the above is likely to pop-up within the gap June 2025-November 2025 or after it. Where if they do Hero characters and Player characters: https://dcuniverseonline.fandom.com/wiki/Legends_Avatars ... I would expect Champions Online just to evaporate from existence. An Open World MMORPG w/ Hero Characters with trailers/pv that copy this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-Y0AqzOxQI Is pretty much game over, waited to long to fix/improve/remake CO to survive against a WoW-class Superpower MMORPG.
(If anyone is going to ask, yes it is a reverse Best Tiger(actually blind): As a visually challenged person in the broadest sense, Trigger has honed her other senses to the utmost, allowing her to move and act as if she could see. She can even detect subtle changes in her environment with precision. This makes her highly adept in the tactical position of a sniper, capable of handling a variety of covert tasks such as stealth, surveillance, and assassination.)

Also, since I mentioned NTE/Ananta: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KSGmBUvABA Where the Wuxia/Xianxia MMORPGs have even more insane housing systems.

[Chris]

You are asking for too much upfront. Its a game that does not have thousands of payers, perhaps has only a hundred. To invest large sums of money, as your plans would require, in such an IP would not make sense. Especially not when that money has to be borrowed.

Publishing some comic books (not diversity ones) in the Champions Universe and building slowly from the bottom up develops the IP. Good stories are sorely lacking in Western comics. Print is also very low cost. I have always been amazed that Marvel, having cheap comic books in which to test the popularity of their stories, still goes ahead and spends hundreds of millions on those that have been proven unpopular.

[Crowbot]

Chris eredeti hozzászólása:

Publishing some comic books (not diversity ones)

Yikes