End of the Aedui, Avoid Sacrifice

[Meagr Kriegr]

For the End of the Aedui quest how do you avoid having to sacrifice a servus or praetorian? Know there is something that involves losing an eye but not sure what can do.

[wendigo211]

Publicado originalmente por 0rc:

A human? It's just a slave. No loss for any true Roman.

Nero would grant slaves the right to lodge legal complaints against their masters. The emperor Antonius Pius would eventually grant slaves protection from arbitrary execution. However at the time the game is set in Roman history, slaves are believed to not have a Persona (soul, identity, value as a human being) and have very few legal protections. I think they have the right to own property, but that's about it.

[AlexMBrennan]

You are forgetting about one crucial factor: Numbers.

By the end of the Gallic wars Caesar had 11 legions and 10000 auxiliaries while we have to make do with a single legion which is partially occupied with keeping Lurko's men in check.

Obviously we are going to have to rely more on subterfuge when we are this hideously outnumbered.

[♠.brT]

Publicado originalmente por AlexMBrennan:

You are forgetting about one crucial factor: Numbers.

By the end of the Gallic wars Caesar had 11 legions and 10000 auxiliaries while we have to make do with a single legion which is partially occupied with keeping Lurko's men in check.

Obviously we are going to have to rely more on subterfuge when we are this hideously outnumbered.

If anything this is an indictment of just how unbelievable the story is. There is simply no way that Rome, even if controlled by some of the most inept cowardly politicians in the history of the republic would be satisfied with sending only two legions to enact revenge on the Gauls for such an audacious attack against the city of Rome itself.

Honestly the only way that i was able to rationalize that part of the story and accept it, was for me to also assume that Gaul can't raise more than maybe 3 or 4 Legions worth of men on their own.

Because if Gaul is as strong as they claim that they are at the start of Act 3, with Vercinterotix having already united the tribes against Rome, then there is simply no way that he would even bother negotiating with the Romans, he would use his overwelming numerical advantage to kick the Romans out of Gaul altogether, Transalpine Gaul would be finished, hell if the Romans are really doing that bad that they can only raise two Legions to deal with Gaul, not even Italia is safe.

The mere presence of only two Roman Legions to fight back against Gaul would be signal from Rome itself to Vercingetorix of "please conquer us, we are screwed".

[deadsanta]

You can do the bowl of blood quest, fill it with animal blood from the Butcher whose son you saved in the Gallic town, getting the last epic weapon as well, and then finish quest with sickle you got from Gallic betrayer chieftain, cut your own eye out and become the pirate Empress of Rome, yarrr!

[=DeadShot=]

Publicado originalmente por deadsanta:

You can do the bowl of blood quest, fill it with animal blood from the Butcher whose son you saved in the Gallic town, getting the last epic weapon as well, and then finish quest with sickle you got from Gallic betrayer chieftain, cut your own eye out and become the pirate Empress of Rome, yarrr!

What epic weapon you get when you fill the bowl with animal blood? Can you tell me? Maybe I've missed the weapon.

[LordVollmilch]

Publicado originalmente por ♠.brT:

Publicado originalmente por AlexMBrennan:

You are forgetting about one crucial factor: Numbers.

By the end of the Gallic wars Caesar had 11 legions and 10000 auxiliaries while we have to make do with a single legion which is partially occupied with keeping Lurko's men in check.

Obviously we are going to have to rely more on subterfuge when we are this hideously outnumbered.

If anything this is an indictment of just how unbelievable the story is. There is simply no way that Rome, even if controlled by some of the most inept cowardly politicians in the history of the republic would be satisfied with sending only two legions to enact revenge on the Gauls for such an audacious attack against the city of Rome itself.

Honestly the only way that i was able to rationalize that part of the story and accept it, was for me to also assume that Gaul can't raise more than maybe 3 or 4 Legions worth of men on their own.

Because if Gaul is as strong as they claim that they are at the start of Act 3, with Vercinterotix having already united the tribes against Rome, then there is simply no way that he would even bother negotiating with the Romans, he would use his overwelming numerical advantage to kick the Romans out of Gaul altogether, Transalpine Gaul would be finished, hell if the Romans are really doing that bad that they can only raise two Legions to deal with Gaul, not even Italia is safe.

The mere presence of only two Roman Legions to fight back against Gaul would be signal from Rome itself to Vercingetorix of "please conquer us, we are screwed".

You are partly right. There is much, that doesn't get explained. But then we are in the space of historicaly authentic, not historicaly accurate. So thats where you can fill the gabs yourself. Maybe rome couldn't spend more legions. Maybe lurco didn't bring more, because you did so well with just one. Maybe both sides lack overwhelmingly massive numbers. Go figure it out for yourself, it's literally a story.

Gameplaywise it doesn't make sense to renact 11 legions in gaul in this game. Thats not the point of the game. It's good enough as it (although the legion minigame could've relatively easily made more interesting, but then again there would be cut corners on other good things)

[=DeadShot=]

Maybe the Senate was reluctant to go to war with Gaul, But have enough legions in Italia, Greece , Thracia and Hispania to defend against any important war.
And all factions (Gaul, Egypt, Mithriades, Rome) are aggressive war shy. And peace loving than in reality.
Also limitation of the engine / game. It is hard to impossible to depict the true scale of the Gaul conquest. Remember that your legion(s) / consul legion represent a divided army. With both commander hating each other like many other instances in Rome history.

[♠.brT]

I don't mind the fact that it was only done with two legions, as i said, i rationalized it for myself that the armies in this alternate history we are playing were smaller than they were in real history, so Gaul much like Rome could only raise a handful of legions for war with rome, making the two legions that Rome sent, "good enough". The Romans would still be outnumbered, but not by that much to the point where the campaign itself was hopeless from the very beginning.

I do however like the idea that "maybe Rome didn't want to send armies into Gaul" so it only allocated two Legions, a token force that couldn't really do anything on its own.
HOWEVER, this idea falls appart because Lurco was made Dictator, he had the overwelming support of the Senate to get a very powerful position, this isn't Scipio asking the Senate to be made governor of Sicily and leading an invasion of Africa, only to be given no legions to mount said invasion because the Senate hated his guts. No, Lurco in this story has far too much influence with the Senate, so the idea that after giving away the dictatorial powers the Senate would work behind his back to sabotage that campaign just doesn't cut it.

[LordVollmilch]

Publicado originalmente por ♠.brT:

I don't mind the fact that it was only done with two legions, as i said, i rationalized it for myself that the armies in this alternate history we are playing were smaller than they were in real history, so Gaul much like Rome could only raise a handful of legions for war with rome, making the two legions that Rome sent, "good enough". The Romans would still be outnumbered, but not by that much to the point where the campaign itself was hopeless from the very beginning.

I do however like the idea that "maybe Rome didn't want to send armies into Gaul" so it only allocated two Legions, a token force that couldn't really do anything on its own.
HOWEVER, this idea falls appart because Lurco was made Dictator, he had the overwelming support of the Senate to get a very powerful position, this isn't Scipio asking the Senate to be made governor of Sicily and leading an invasion of Africa, only to be given no legions to mount said invasion because the Senate hated his guts. No, Lurco in this story has far too much influence with the Senate, so the idea that after giving away the dictatorial powers the Senate would work behind his back to sabotage that campaign just doesn't cut it.

Sorry then, I didn't read carefull enough apparently.

Well Lurco having the highest position, sure.
But having high power? Not necessary. I imagine there are many senators that are not supporting him in any way, just like you. But for their own reasons. The game fails at communicating such things tho.

[Firetooth+4]

Back to the topic at hand, it's kinda lame how your missing eye is never brought up.

[LordVollmilch]

Publicado originalmente por no wifi pls:

Back to the topic at hand, it's kinda lame how your missing eye is never brought up.

your praetorians already know how you really lost it. others will most likely assume you lost it during battle, because thats the obvious explanation. unless you peddle it to everyone like a vegan, many won't care.

[Cutlass Jack]

Publicado originalmente por no wifi pls:

Back to the topic at hand, it's kinda lame how your missing eye is never brought up.

That's because they're too busy commenting on my boobs. They aren't looking at my eyes.

[wyrward]

i just find this quest completely wrong on on several fronts. Some say the Romans did human sacrifices and others don't. I just can find where they would support hostile gods and they just take out the druid which they done. Jupiter would be very upset with them if they did not. They do need a options for the kid if you get the stone he will tell you the work around if you don't have the 2 shills. can you not do this quest?

[Twelvefield]

The quest is wrong, but considering how much blood is on your hands to get to this point, one more dead Pullo makes little difference. Besides, they are all dead by now: "dead as Julius Caesar", as dead man Sean Connery said in one of his films where he died.

[=DeadShot=]

Publicado originalmente por wyrward:

i just find this quest completely wrong on on several fronts. Some say the Romans did human sacrifices and others don't. I just can find where they would support hostile gods and they just take out the druid which they done. Jupiter would be very upset with them if they did not. They do need a options for the kid if you get the stone he will tell you the work around if you don't have the 2 shills. can you not do this quest?

Look like the ancient jews the Romans were against human sacrifice. One of the few people who were against. That is legit, you were executed by Roman law if they caught you doing human sacrifice. And was a point of pride that they don't do human sacrifice, while everyone on the italian peninsula, outside the greeks did.
But Roman history is long, and what is the norm during the Carthagenian wars and closer to present is probably not the norm during earlier times.
When they conquered the celts they put a hard stop to the practice.
But that didn't say it didn't happen or wasn't covered. From time to time, powerful people can err on the neigbours superstition and engage in human sacrifice and cover this up.
But it was highly ileagal and frown upon.
Then there are practices that might have been in the long forgotten past part of human sacrifice rites that the romans stopped the rites, and kept the practice.
Like gladiatorial games that was part of funeral rites during the Roman Kingdom, or adopted , without the religious connotation from etruscan funeral human sacrifice practice, and the practice of strangling captive enemy commanders at the end of a Roman Triumph.
Roman are also big on self sacrifice, like when a very important battle doesn't go in the Roman favor the Roman commander would perform rites that take all the roman bad luck and misfortune and go on and die in battle. With that the Roman believe their misfortune and bad luck will also die. To the point where the enemies of Rome will try to keep the suicidal commander unharmed to prevent the Roman luck to change.