Reaper makes the game too easy

[nicolasco]

Even after the Reaper nerf, brawler/duelist veles or destroyer triarius still kills the entire map with barely any help from other squad members (Crassus difficulty).

Dear developers, may I suggest a higher difficulty or some more tweaking so that other classes may shine? So far, Act 1 seems perfectly tuned, while Act 3 and on is a childsplay. This brings the game to a point where there are several 'uber' builds (Barrage, Brawler's reaper or any Achilles' Reaper -based), and you just need to bring 2 triarii for the sake of warhorn and Inspire. while everyone else is just watching the whole map eradicated.

Reaper really needs to be either removed from the game, or nerfed into oblivion...

[Kalitz]

Or you could not use it.
No need to spoil the fun for others.

[nicolasco]

Originally posted by Kalitz:

Or you could not use it.
No need to spoil the fun for others.

I tried )) Rush and Barrage are still able to do the job.
Overall, it would be more fun to see more class interaction. For instance, a triarius is a perfect combo with a princeps. I would like to see the same thing with damage dealers. Barrage-based or any Veles builds are very strong and independent even without Reaper. I just would want to avoid the situation where there is one super-mega-dd, and everyone else is relegated to a minor supporting role.

[Servus futuens]

I think Reaper is just fine the way it is now. The problem you're describing is the Achilles Spear, not the Veles skill. Nerf to the spear (or the effect) would bring it down to be on par with other good uniques.

If Achilles Spear restored Action Point and skills only once, it would probably be just fine.

[nicolasco]

Originally posted by Servus futuens:

I think Reaper is just fine the way it is now. The problem you're describing is the Achilles Spear, not the Veles skill. Nerf to the spear (or the effect) would bring it down to be on par with other good uniques.

If Achilles Spear restored Action Point and skills only once, it would probably be just fine.

The difference is that the spear gives Reaper for 2 turns from the start, and the skill does so for 1 turn at will. Quite the same for me... Veles should be armed with two sets of weapons with action-free attacks, stack up bloodthirsty and then just one-shot everyone with the non-resistable attack... Still a 1-turn killing spree, because even if you're out of movement, Shiv+disarm+spear attack will kill anyone. This 'add 2 movement upon kill' skill is a blessing for Veles...

[Servus futuens]

Originally posted by nicolasco:

Originally posted by Servus futuens:

I think Reaper is just fine the way it is now. The problem you're describing is the Achilles Spear, not the Veles skill. Nerf to the spear (or the effect) would bring it down to be on par with other good uniques.

If Achilles Spear restored Action Point and skills only once, it would probably be just fine.

The difference is that the spear gives Reaper for 2 turns from the start, and the skill does so for 1 turn at will. Quite the same for me... Veles should be armed with two sets of weapons with action-free attacks, stack up bloodthirsty and then just one-shot everyone with the non-resistable attack... Still a 1-turn killing spree, because even if you're out of movement, Shiv+disarm+spear attack will kill anyone. This 'add 2 movement upon kill' skill is a blessing for Veles...

I'd hardly call it OP when you need +15 skill points and specific min-maxed gear just to pull it off, and even then you're limited by your movement (and luck to some extent). Depends a lot on the encounter though.

I totally forgot about the Clear Path buff though which gives extra movement after each kill, that does indeed make it easier to clear, but nowhere near as OP as it was on release.

[nicolasco]

Upon release Reaper was truly OP, I agree. But it remains so.
By no means, I don't intend to spoil anyone's fun! But with Reaper, a great deal of the game just goes by. I'll try to explain.
The biggest 'problem' of Reaper is that it allows killing (almost) everyone on turn 1. You just need a strong weapon (which is very easy to craft). Just the weapon. And nothing else.
You don't need armor. Who cares about taking hits when you kill everyone from the start?
You don't need tactical items. Well, ok, mulsum/mitridates is occasionally useful for tough fights (esp. for Triarius), and pila may come in handy (I used them 3 times in all 4 acts so far).
You don't need to think about the builds of your squad mates. Just buff the DD and have fun. OK, if the DD fails to kill, bring them back in action with Inspire.
See? A great deal of things, the whole essence of tactical game just turns into nothing, and - because there is Reaper that allows to extend the chainkill.

The distance, you say. Well, fine, sometimes the fight takes 2 or 3 turns because the enemies are scattered. Still, it is 1 out of 10 battles, and still you kill the majority of enemies on turn 1... Just save your shiv+disarm, come closer, kill, and get your 2 movement points... Veles can deliver 6 (six!) strikes per attack, Triarius hits three times but twice as hard...

For me, Barrage is the example of ultimate skill balance. It allows to deliver many strikes, kill a couple of enemies, make some really funny combos.. but cannot wipe out the whole map.

[Atma]

Honestly, I think that Reaper is fine the way it is now. The real issue is the Spear of Achilles, but the way I see it is that this weapon is more of a cool Easter egg than something that anybody really intended to balance the game around.

It has a hidden multi-part quest that isn't entered in the quest log at any point. Most players wouldn't have any idea that it exists outside of reading guides or posts online.

You can still pull off some pretty crazy things w/ it as-is, but it's not nearly as guaranteed as it was pre-nerf. I have to use clever positioning and assists from other party members now to keep a streak going, not just brute force my way through the whole map w/out any help.

I think that's fine. I think everybody understands that if you are min-maxing your guy out to the point where Reaper is still busted, that's kinda on you (yes, that's on me too, because I am totally that guy!).

Before, you didn't really have to give it any thought, just bring enough damage to kill enemies and you were good to go. Now there are other considerations.

But at the end of the day, it's a single player game and it's one super-secret item that is "pretty okay" on its own but can be crazy if you are willing to craft and build your whole character around its charm.

TL;DR:
Reaper the ability is perfectly fine as-is. Achilles' Spear is okay as-is. Achilles' Spear CHARM is OP if you build a character around maximizing its potential, but does it really matter?

[raphoux69]

Originally posted by Atma:

Honestly, I think that Reaper is fine the way it is now. The real issue is the Spear of Achilles, but the way I see it is that this weapon is more of a cool Easter egg than something that anybody really intended to balance the game around.

It has a hidden multi-part quest that isn't entered in the quest log at any point. Most players wouldn't have any idea that it exists outside of reading guides or posts online.

You can still pull off some pretty crazy things w/ it as-is, but it's not nearly as guaranteed as it was pre-nerf. I have to use clever positioning and assists from other party members now to keep a streak going, not just brute force my way through the whole map w/out any help.

I think that's fine. I think everybody understands that if you are min-maxing your guy out to the point where Reaper is still busted, that's kinda on you (yes, that's on me too, because I am totally that guy!).

Before, you didn't really have to give it any thought, just bring enough damage to kill enemies and you were good to go. Now there are other considerations.

But at the end of the day, it's a single player game and it's one super-secret item that is "pretty okay" on its own but can be crazy if you are willing to craft and build your whole character around its charm.

TL;DR:
Reaper the ability is perfectly fine as-is. Achilles' Spear is okay as-is. Achilles' Spear CHARM is OP if you build a character around maximizing its potential, but does it really matter?

I don't think spear of achilles is a problem in itself. I feel like reaper in itself is underwhelming since executionner will do way better on triarius (don't remember the skill). The problem is the movement that you can add up till oblivion on veles recuperating enormous amount of movement for s imple actions.
If i had to chose between reaper and action refunds when glacing, i would choose the ladder.

PS : For the charm why ? You c an off hand the spear and utilize the +2 movement pretty well.

[Atma]

Toward the end of the game, I found myself valuing the extra damage on a real weapon over the +2 movement on the spear, but I liked the movement earlier on in the game.

You need to get over a certain damage threshold to be able to continue a streak w/ Reaper using Quick Lunge, which is basically what allows a Triarius to have enormous movement range anyway.

Of course, everyone plays differently, that was just my own feeling.

[Trolleur_Durden]

Since Reaper is a buff, you can start with the spear in hand, get the buff at the start of the battle, then switch to your main weapon setup.

[Atma]

Originally posted by Trolleur_Durden:

Since Reaper is a buff, you can start with the spear in hand, get the buff at the start of the battle, then switch to your main weapon setup.

I do know this, but I didn't see any compelling reason to do this for a Triarius. There are only a couple unique weapons that are good for a Destroyer, but honestly I never had any issue just smashing things w/ the Reaper staff.

If I did a Destroyer again, I'd honestly go w/ a staff and a pike even though it looks really goofy, just to have access to both weapons' skills. I didn't find much use for Aid on my main character since Syneros exists but an attack w/ 3 range on it could've been handy.

[LukanGamer]

then dont use it, mind blown

[=DeadShot=]

Don't use Reaper. I would love to keep the Reaper ability and not have it nerfed again. The same thing with the Spear of Achiles. Leave that stuff alone for us.

[raphoux69]

Originally posted by Atma:

Toward the end of the game, I found myself valuing the extra damage on a real weapon over the +2 movement on the spear, but I liked the movement earlier on in the game.

You need to get over a certain damage threshold to be able to continue a streak w/ Reaper using Quick Lunge, which is basically what allows a Triarius to have enormous movement range anyway.

Of course, everyone plays differently, that was just my own feeling.

You only need to equip in slot 2. In slot 1 you can get whatever weapon you want. Move and switch, you will simply use 2 more movement from the spear. For combat you just switch, that's what i meant. Plus i feel like reaper on other classes aren't super interesting anyways.

[Atma]

Originally posted by raphoux69:

Originally posted by Atma:

Toward the end of the game, I found myself valuing the extra damage on a real weapon over the +2 movement on the spear, but I liked the movement earlier on in the game.

You need to get over a certain damage threshold to be able to continue a streak w/ Reaper using Quick Lunge, which is basically what allows a Triarius to have enormous movement range anyway.

Of course, everyone plays differently, that was just my own feeling.

You only need to equip in slot 2. In slot 1 you can get whatever weapon you want. Move and switch, you will simply use 2 more movement from the spear. For combat you just switch, that's what i meant. Plus i feel like reaper on other classes aren't super interesting anyways.

I get what you mean but you are giving up an entire weapon slot for +2 movement, which isn't really necessary for the most part since Triarius doesn't have to worry about staying w/in the green to still be able to attack.

It is not useful to have a spear in that slot when you could just have Reaper on a staff or pike in that slot.

+2 movement is not worth giving up 3 extra abilities and an actually usable weapon, imo.