Door-slamming people is probably too powerful

[KDR_11k]

Barging an unlocked door will immediately send any NPC behind it flying and knock them out, knocking on a door will make the person inside position themselves in a perfect position for a door slam letting you take down one inhabitant of any apartment immediately. They don't even really seem aware of what you did to them, I've often not even had the alarm activated after they woke up (provided I didn't hang around). Swording someone at the door usually sees them running to the alarm immediately after waking up so you're locked out of that place for a while.

It's just way too easy to get arrests done this way, either the target is at the door and you get to cuff them while they are unconscious or you knock out their partner so they won't interfere with your arresting attempt.

Barging doesn't even seem to be particularly loud, I've had plenty of cases where I door slammed one person and their partner was still asleep in bed. Doesn't seem much more conspicuous than using a lockpick either so I haven't been picking many doors lately.

Instant KOs should probably be locked behind some sync disk at very least.

[CursedHonor]

seems like something a detective would do in real life so it's not too easy it's just your tactic which im going to use. so is box throwing, they are op. i knocked out a city block with a box and back stepping.

[Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong]

Originally posted by KDR_11k:

Barging an unlocked door will immediately send any NPC behind it flying and knock them out, knocking on a door will make the person inside position themselves in a perfect position for a door slam letting you take down one inhabitant of any apartment immediately. They don't even really seem aware of what you did to them, I've often not even had the alarm activated after they woke up (provided I didn't hang around). Swording someone at the door usually sees them running to the alarm immediately after waking up so you're locked out of that place for a while.

It's just way too easy to get arrests done this way, either the target is at the door and you get to cuff them while they are unconscious or you knock out their partner so they won't interfere with your arresting attempt.

Barging doesn't even seem to be particularly loud, I've had plenty of cases where I door slammed one person and their partner was still asleep in bed. Doesn't seem much more conspicuous than using a lockpick either so I haven't been picking many doors lately.

Instant KOs should probably be locked behind some sync disk at very least.

This would be fixed if there was some kind of crime system that persisted beyond leaving a building. If people remembered you and became hostile after seeing you, or if cameras would target you for several days instead. You can already simply walk in after someone opens a door and immediately cuff them, which is basically the same thing.

[Mr. Pain™]

And it's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ HILARIOUS too

[daze23]

I only used it once, cause this guy would not leave the CCTV room. if you feel it 'breaks the game', don't do it.

[RaptorTwitch]

This mechanic makes you ignore several other game mechanics and has 0 downsides 90% of the time. If there is no Situational incentive to use or not use it because it is just factually better than every other option you have it is broken and has to be fixed. "Not using it because you feel like it breaks the game" is a very unhealthy statement in terms of game design.

[Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong]

Originally posted by RaptorTwitch:

This mechanic makes you ignore several other game mechanics and has 0 downsides 90% of the time. If there is no Situational incentive to use or not use it because it is just factually better than every other option you have it is broken and has to be fixed. "Not using it because you feel like it breaks the game" is a very unhealthy statement in terms of game design.

Except as I stated you can already do things within the confines of the game that are equally powerful that are obviously intended. Knock on someones door, wait till they answer, walk past and behind them and immediately cuff them. It's just as powerful as swording or doorslamming it just takes an extra second. You cuff people near instantly and they can't move while you're cuffing them, you just have to get behind them. After cuffing you almost always have enough time to sword or jar the roommate. The game is simply just easy. All of this would be less incentivized if cops could be called on you and crimes persisted outside of buildings. Also, if you die outside of a building you had a 20k fine in, you don't have to pay that fine. You only have to pay fines of buildings you die in. If any of this had lasting effects or made it harder to reenter a certain building it would greatly diminish the value of doing any of this as it might make future cases harder or prevent yourself easy access during an ongoing case. Basically, if you ask me melee combat needs nerfed the crime system needs revamped and citizens need to use guns way less. It should be a surprise when iron gets pulled, but maybe they should be more accurate and deadly.

[KDR_11k]

At least cuffing requires cuffs.

I think having to get out of a building while you're marked as a threat can be fairly interesting (and is probably the intended balance) but most of the time you can get away before the alarm is raised. Or if you have fall damage immunity you can just leap out of a window. So yeah, either fines should be much stickier or the alarm should be raised much more easily (e.g. by neighbors since these are actions that should be pretty loud in practice).

Door slams seem like they'd be fine during actual sneaking since they'd require timing and a good situation to pull off but not when someone is answering the door. Maybe an NPC should be "aware" of the door when it has been knocked on and dodge a door slam or at least fall down but not take THAT much damage?

Telling people not to use OP strategies is at most a workaround while the game is in early access, there shouldn't be OP strategies in the final release so they need to be found and fixed. Gotta make sure the game actually makes you play properly instead of requiring you to maintain an increasing list of things you could do but shouldn't do because they'd break the game.

[RaptorTwitch]

Yes, exactly. It is Early Access and there are still a lot of things that can and should be added. E.g. another lasting effect could be a prestige system where people are more or less willing to talk to you depending on these actions.
But my main point was dismissing issues saying "just don't use it" being bad.

[Relative unit]

You can already just walk behind someone and handcuff them or just oneshot them with a sword. It's not a very difficult game and it doesn't have much content, but it's nothing that can't be fixed and rebalanced seeing as how it's early access.

[Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong]

Originally posted by Relative unit:

You can already just walk behind someone and handcuff them or just oneshot them with a sword. It's not a very difficult game and it doesn't have much content, but it's nothing that can't be fixed and rebalanced seeing as how it's early access.

This is basically my point too. Until we get proper balance there's no point to say things are op or not. The GOV database is considered wildly op to some and a hassle to others. I guess a lot of things boil down to opinion.

[KDR_11k]

Originally posted by Inspector Detective Jacques Clou:

Originally posted by Relative unit:

You can already just walk behind someone and handcuff them or just oneshot them with a sword. It's not a very difficult game and it doesn't have much content, but it's nothing that can't be fixed and rebalanced seeing as how it's early access.

This is basically my point too. Until we get proper balance there's no point to say things are op or not. The GOV database is considered wildly op to some and a hassle to others. I guess a lot of things boil down to opinion.

Saying things are OP is a part of helping the dev balance things.

[Zothen]

Originally posted by RaptorTwitch:

This mechanic makes you ignore several other game mechanics and has 0 downsides 90% of the time. If there is no Situational incentive to use or not use it because it is just factually better than every other option you have it is broken and has to be fixed. "Not using it because you feel like it breaks the game" is a very unhealthy statement in terms of game design.

So true.

[Isabelle]

Originally posted by Inspector Detective Jacques Clou:

Originally posted by Relative unit:

You can already just walk behind someone and handcuff them or just oneshot them with a sword. It's not a very difficult game and it doesn't have much content, but it's nothing that can't be fixed and rebalanced seeing as how it's early access.

This is basically my point too. Until we get proper balance there's no point to say things are op or not. The GOV database is considered wildly op to some and a hassle to others. I guess a lot of things boil down to opinion.

i refuse to use gov database and hope its removed

[KDR_11k]

I only use it for people when I know at least one full name. That balances it pretty well.

[Mehrunes Dagon did nothing wrong]

Originally posted by KDR_11k:

I only use it for people when I know at least one full name. That balances it pretty well.

It doesn't. It's too easy to get access to something that you can theoretically find anyone by just a single detail, if you devote enough time to it. And it's no harder to access than any regular cruncher. It's busted, it should be in an area locked behind 3 doors with 3 different codes that sometimes don't even spawn forcing you to be loud and quick. On top of some other measures to name a few.