druid summoner question

[Verias[BEL]]

So im new and started the druid,
I heard wolves are the attack summons while bears supposed to tank
I just started but to me it seems bears do more damage,
Also seems my wolves only attack 1 time while i read they suppose to attack 2 times


2nd part
How do i upgrade my pet damage ?
Do i focus on the stat that of their colour ? like dex for the wolves ? or how does it work

Thanks

[Fargol]

Critters all gain HP and damage as you rank up the cards. Critter damage also scales to the appropriate attribute bonus, though it varies. i.e. Wolf scales 50% of DEX, Bears 100% of STR. I think Werewolves scale 100% DEX. Birds scale 75% INT and give Ida channel. Birds can also attack adjacent lanes.

Wolves can be turned into Werewolves with Full Moon, which is Tier 3 but I've found items with it attached for -1AP even before you can get Tier 3 cards. Werewolves are of course better than Wolves damage wise, and they can attack enemies adjacent lanes. Wolves also have a passive (I think it's called Animal Instinct) which grants when +X Critical (starts at 4) for every 4 bleed on enemies. Which is nice if you're also running Bears which cause bleeding.

Bears are better, imo, than basic wolves but Full Moon and Animal Instinct make Wolves better. I run Ida with 2 of each, + Full Moon + Wild Cunning, in a party with other bleeders (Veteran / Kudo) and it absolutely kicks butt. I also had Ida start as Druid then dip into Animal Kinship but that dilutes her a bit.

None of the critters attack more than once without Wild Cunning in hand (imo one of the very best passives in the game).

Hope that helps.

Edit: Thinking about it a bit more, I'm not certain that the attribute scaling for critter damage is Ida's attributes and might be the Pets'. That would make more sense given cards that bestow attribute bonuses to critters such as Master of Wolves.

[sandman25dcsss]

Summon attributes don't depend on summoner's attributes. Warlock's totem can increase summon attributes.

Did they change Werewolves to respect Wild Cunning? Last time I tried Werewolves attacked just once.

[Fargol]

Yeah, don't know what I was thinking re attributes. And yes, Werewolves do attack twice with Wild Cunning.

[sandman25dcsss]

I see, thank you!

[alleryn]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Summon attributes don't depend on summoner's attributes.

Are you sure about this? Spirit Hawk's Claw card deals (4 + [75% INT mod]) damage, which started out at 4+1 on my Forest Seer when my int was 14 (i.e. +2 modifier), but now that my int is up to 19 (+4 modifier), the card now says 4+3, and monsters are suffering 7 damage. (Summon Spirit Hawk card and Claw card are still rank 1, btw).

[sandman25dcsss]

Originally posted by alleryn:

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

Summon attributes don't depend on summoner's attributes.

Are you sure about this? Spirit Hawk's Claw card deals (4 + [75% INT mod]) damage, which started out at 4+1 on my Forest Seer when my int was 14 (i.e. +2 modifier), but now that my int is up to 19 (+4 modifier), the card now says 4+3, and monsters are suffering 7 damage. (Summon Spirit Hawk card and Claw card are still rank 1, btw).

Summon damage increases with summoner level because summons have attributes too and those increase when summoner increases in level. You can test it by changing INT mod of summoner and if summon damage changes, I would be wrong.

[sandman25dcsss]

I have just tested to be sure.
Level 67 Ida with Int mod 22 and Dex mod 3: Wolf has Dex mod 32 or 33, Hawk has Int mod 32 or 33 (because Wolf has 16 as 50% Dex mod and Hawk has 25 as 75% Int mod) so I guess it is really 50% of summoner level (67/2=33)

[Fargol]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

I have just tested to be sure.
Level 67 Ida with Int mod 22 and Dex mod 3: Wolf has Dex mod 32 or 33, Hawk has Int mod 32 or 33 (because Wolf has 16 as 50% Dex mod and Hawk has 25 as 75% Int mod) so I guess it is really 50% of summoner level (67/2=33)

Huh. Thanks for the update.

[alleryn]

Originally posted by sandman25dcsss:

I have just tested to be sure.
Level 67 Ida with Int mod 22 and Dex mod 3: Wolf has Dex mod 32 or 33, Hawk has Int mod 32 or 33 (because Wolf has 16 as 50% Dex mod and Hawk has 25 as 75% Int mod) so I guess it is really 50% of summoner level (67/2=33)

Thanks for this.

I am looking at some numbers on this side too. They are not entirely consistent with this hypothesis. Here's what i have (all this is Build 1.2.6 2022-11-18 | GOG/default) :

Level 33 Ida. Have +4 to Summon base stats from Strength Talent.
[Stats are STR 16 (+3) DEX 13(+1) INT 19(+4), though these do seem irrelevant.]

Rank 4 Spiderling
- Posion Fang, 100% Dex mod equates to 28.
Rank 4 Wolf
- Bite 50% Dex mod -> 16
- Animal Instinct 25% Dex mod -> 8
Rank 4 Bear
- Swipe 100% Str mod -> 33
- Swipe 20% Str mod (on the bleed) -> 6
- Bloodlust 50% Str mod -> 16
- Predator 50% Str mod -> 16

Forest Seer
- Level 1 Ida : 75% int mod on hawk -> 1
- Level 2: --> 1
- Level 4: --> 3
- Level 5: --> 3
- Level 8: --> 3
- Level 9: --> 3
- Level 10 (INT mod +6): --> 4
[At this point, considering the data points since level 5, i'm pretty confused. I hadn't been tracking Ida's int, but the last node i took was +2 int, which took it from +5 to +6 mod, so it would fit the timing going from 5*.75 = 3.75 to 6*.75 =4.]
- Level 12 (+6) --> 4 (Rank 1)
- Still Level 12, card ranked up to rank 2 (+6) --> 7 (Rank 2)
[Yes, this is just the mod value, the base damage also went up from 4 to 6, total increase from 4+4 to 6+7).]
- Level 15 (+6) ---> 8 (Rank 2)
[Also had a rank 1 hawk that is now 5 (Rank 1) (i.e. 4+5)]
- Level 17 (+6) --> 9 (Rank 2)
- Level 21 (+6) --> 11 (Rank 2)
[Also had a rank 3 hawk that is now 14 (Rank 3) (7+14)]
- Level 24 (+8) --> 15 (Rank 3)
- Level 28 (+8) [added talent that gives +10 to base stats of summons] --> 20 (Rank 3)
- Level 30 (+8) [now two talents totaling +14 base stats for summons] --> 22 (Rank 3)
- Level 32 (+8) (talents +14) --> 28 (Rank 4 now)
- Level 33 (+8) (talents +14) --> 29 (Rank 4)
- Still Level 33 (+8) (took talents off to test : talents +0) --> 24 (Rank 4), as expected reducing stats from talents by 14 appears to reduce mod by 7, and .75*mod by 7*.75 = 5.25

Forest Guardian:
- Level 1 Ida Str 0, Dex +1
-- Bear 100% is +2
-- Wolf 50% is +1
- Level 2 Str+1 Dex+1 -- [Change from last Level +1 Str mod +1]
-- Bear +2 (100%) -- same
-- Wolf +1 (50%) -- same
- Leverl 4 Str +3 Dex +1 -- [Change from last Level +2 Str mod +2]
-- Bear +3 -- change +1
-- Wolf +1 -- change 0
- Level 5 Str +3 Dex +1 -- [Change from last Level +1]
-- Bear +3 -- change 0
-- Wolf +1 -- change 0
- Level 6 Str +3 Dex +3 -- [Change Lvl +1 Dex +2]
-- Bear +4 -- change +1
-- Wolf +2 -- change +1
- Level 7 Str +3 Dex +3 -- [Change Lvl +1]
-- Bear -- unkown, Ida died before
-- Wolf +2 -- change 0

Wanted to test by removing a stat bonus talent at a point when i didn't level up btwn fights, but that's enough testing for tonite.

Observations and Open Questions:
- Rounding: Do stat mods round up, down or to the nearest? Given my bear mod being a 33 at 100%, 16 at 50%, and 6 at 20%, it seems round down is most likely. However, f this is correct, then sandman's hawk's mod would have to be at least 34 rather than 32 or 33, since 32 or 33 would both become 24 at 75% if rounded down. (32 would become 24 regardless of rounding). Rouding down appears to be consistent with other mod rounding i've seen (e.g. 3 mod on one of Ida's own abilities: 250% --> 7, 75% --> 2).
- Things that affect summon stats include level, card rank, and talents. I still haven't 100% confirmed that Ida's stats affect it, but level 5-10 of the Forest Seer run above seem to make it likely.

[Fargol]

It would be nice if a dev would chime in and clear this up.

[sandman25dcsss]

I guess it cannot be something as simple as XL*(0.33 + 0.17*Rank) based on data by Alleryn so yes, dev's answer could be interesting to see.

[bigboss]

Regarding summoned units stats (str,dex,int), the short version of it is, their stats are indeed affected by the summoners' level, bonuses (items etc), the rank of the card, and yes the summoners' stats as well. The rank of card that is used to summon them also affects their stats, as well as their resistances.

[Fargol]

And the summoned units are also affected by their own stats I presume?

[bigboss]

The summoned units' stats at the moment are affected by the summoner.
Which means to say, their stats are influenced entirely by the different factors that are coming from the summoner himself (summoner's level, stats etc).

[Fargol]

Originally posted by bigboss:

The summoned units' stats at the moment are affected by the summoner.
Which means to say, their stats are influenced entirely by the different factors that are coming from the summoner himself (summoner's level, stats etc).

Understood, but what I meant is that if a summoned unit's stats are bumped (by, say, a strength totem) would that impact its damage (likely the bear)?