How to actually make a weapon??

[DEFIANCE is Back !!]

You know so far I'm not impressed,

why is it so hard to make a weapon?

After awkwardly trying to do all the 'stuff' required to get your basic parts (one hand shaft, axe head blade etc..)

The book tells you, "Once you have the required parts, make an axe/pick etc just like you would any other weapon."

Oh yeah?

Well how in the world do you -do that- ??

Not in the book, not anywhere else in the game,

pushing Z, control, this that clicking, clicking some more double-clicking etc etc

nothing works or happens when I put both the axe head and normal weapon shaft on that blue table.

What am I not understanding here?

Do you think you could actually put in the 'make it just like you would any other weapon' instructions in that game book or are we magically supposed to figure this out?


Also there are some SERIOUS interaction design issues, some workstations have a 'place to click with a mouse' (i.e. floor pedal for the wood plank machine),

but other stuff doesn't at all (or relatively invisible to the player), i.e. Anvil etc (where you have to push 'Z' to get any kind of menu, and that's awkward "af" to use..)

I mean seriously are you playing your own game or is this another one of those 'part-time game projects on the side to make extra cash while keeping a real job' etc..


I was super pumped to get this to have something fun and relaxing to play to,

but so far it's nothing but frustration and the incongruent setting doesn't help..

(A machine to make planks? Seriously? If there was enough 'tech' in the game to make automatic plank making machines then the world doesn't need manual blacksmiths anymore -- they got machines to do all that now.. )

[Kurzidan]

The first page after shield, talking about workbench and items in general

Category Weapons, Page 11: Creating a weapon
To create a successful weapon, you must put together each of the following components on the workbench

(workbench is the table where the grips and lantern first spawned, the grips are in an inactive state, and must first be activated before they can be used. -> https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/681781148090892308/unknown.png ) (Moving them down to the blue isn't what activates them, Just holding them/moving them does, you can just grab them, and then release them immediately, to accomplish this)

The next page turn

Category Workbench station, Page 13:
The Workbench is the final point in your creation. overlap the items together to receive your product, ready for sale.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/681784741757976596/unknown.png
There's also a note on the board saying roughly the same thing. - the older version of whats in the book.
What other book are you referring to? could you take some pictures of what you saw where you saw it? or even possibly, what version of the game are you on?


Additional images Utilizing some of the starter resources.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/681787604559331338/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/681792168876441600/unknown.png

The above can either be given to customers
Or the Blacksmith can look at them and equip them with e
(If the blacksmith already has an axe and pick equipped, They will need to be selected to equip new ones, and afaik the new ones need to be an upgrade)

______

As for Z / UIs
That sounds more like a suggestion, if you wanna see somethnig different for something, place it in suggestions (imo, The more details on how it would look/etc the better, but, Whether thats what you do and whether Dasius thinks that way or not, is different stories, Dasius is the sole dev of the game atm. )

The workbench, The Anvil and the forge that heats up the ingots/items for the anvil, are the oldest stations, too..

[DEFIANCE is Back !!]

(I'll try not to comment about how I started it up to play and 'relax', only to be frustrated for 2-3 hours of total blood-pressure pumping nonsense, though I just did.. )

but the 'problem' seemed to have been the fact that every "New" game starts off with a (excuse caps..) -- FREAKING 2-HANDED HANDLE ALREADY ON THE TABLE WHICH NEGATES ANYTHING YOU TRY TO DO !!!!!!!11111 --

FREAKIN SERIOUSLY DEV(S)??????


I'll leave it at that and hopefully you can repent and amend your ways to whichever higher powers you serve..

: P..


(embarassing that games are made like this nowadays.. )

[Kurzidan]

As stated, The starter 2h and 1h grips are in an inactive state. All you gotta do is grab them, they'll become active. put em wherever you want after that, or just use them. - The Starter ingots are also like this. You just grab them, and make them active. There are some other things that will also be the same way.

I don't personally know whether the inactive state is intentional, or unintentional, but the grip shouldn't "negate anything you try to do"? I don't even think it'll negate most things, even if you leave it inactive, The majority, if not entirety, of the workbench's blue-clothed shelf, is capable of having items combined on it... You could just leave the grip inactive for the rest of the game... Or you can just activate it by grabbing it and moving it, like with the ingots.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/682175234878734342/unknown.png (one hands, didn't bother the inactive 2h)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/682177372765552640/unknown.png (Inactive Ingots, generally no one notices these are inactive this version, because they're practically at the board, and you'll usually be grabbing them anyway.)

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/682178214637994037/unknown.png (two hands, didn't bother the inactive 2h)


I also **said** That Dasius is the sole dev of the game, i.e Singular, alone, solo, only.. etc..
so there's not much point in the addition of "(s)" at "dev"


I don't personally see an issue with starter items to get started with, Items that you /can/ ignore, and not use, and be completely fine, or make full use of, and be completely fine.

• you can grab the 1h and 2h grips, making them active, and use them in your first items {shown in first post}
  
• you can move the workbench to wherever you please, as you can see with the ingots, its not like its "inactively glued" to the station, its just "inactive", effectively both ignoring the grips and moving them off the workbench {sorta shown with ingots and shelf, which is essentially a station}
  
• you can ignore the grips, using others (that are likely worth more since, common wooden ain't worth a lot) - the 2h grip doesn't impede you assembling items on the rest of the workbench {Shown in this post}
  
• you can ignore all the ingots and the grips, only ordering your own to make use of. You can do that, and move both the shelves from near the forge, and move the forge and workbench, and any, or every, thing else, leaving the grips and ingots there for eternity.

The only thing that the 2h grip negates, is the things that specifically interact with it.

[Dasius]

Hey Calendrin,

I appreciate your input and criticism on the state of the game and I apologize for the inconveniences, however, I would like to point out that I don't appreciate your behavior and would recommend you consider a alternative method of expressing your opinion and views without being hostile, as it is counter productive.
I do my best to implement and fix all the issues that your fellow enthusiasts have brought up and your concerns are already on the to-do-list of things to add/fix since this is my 9-5 weekdays and weekends.
Thank you and have a great day.

[DEFIANCE is Back !!]

" I don't personally know whether the inactive state is intentional, or unintentional, but the grip shouldn't "negate anything you try to do"? "

(and this can be taken as a response to Dasius as well)

- Yeah my intensity level of 'post' is equal to my disappointment from really looking forward to something (people get excited about what they really 'care' about, both in good and bad ways)

-- All I know is that I messed around with every possible button / click 'combination' for an hour at that table and -- Only --

thats, -- Only -- ,

once I completely 'removed' that 2-handed hilt/grip thing off the table all the sudden, like 'magic', when I put the other 1-handed grip and hammer-head on the table it instantly worked.

Obviously I was 'clicking' on the 2-handed thing earlier,.. so question now is,

How should I 'properly' express my disappointment/outrage that a dev would place something right in the 'middle' of something to a bunch of new players who have no idea what they're doing like somehow they're supposed to know it's 'inactive' etc.

This is what I'm talking about, do you have people play-testing this or what?

Are they being told, "Okay pretend you're a new player etc",

I mean no offense guys but look at that post I got (from Kurzidan), it's like a story complete with 3 out of game links,

Really am I supposed to join discord, click links, just to do the most 'basic purpose' of that game?

Which is to make weapons?

Not only that, but after 'finally' figuring it out (okay empty the table, just put components on the table and it automatically 'works') last night, I tried to make more,

Nope, sitting there for another 30 minutes, nothing.

Customer comes in, asks for a 'dagger', I'm like, "cool okay let me start enjoying the game I got 10 grips I finally know how to do things etc.. "

Go to the anvil, 'err.. which is the dagger blade?..'

I mean it just goes on and on.

It's very user-unfriendly, there's just no two-ways about it.

There are in fact some solid 'improvements' that can be put into the game (right now I distilled 2 aspects of the game that are road-blocks for people and determine even what 'kind' of game it is, I'll see about getting into that later)

For now (in the next message) I'll address the issue of being 'told' what my proper behaviour is or not.

[DEFIANCE is Back !!]

Dasius I appreciate your reply however being told about my 'behaviour' took my general, neutral message and now I feel like I'm personally being attacked for my frustration in the game.

If you read my post you'll see nothing in it is 'personal', it is just frustration coming out in a post, nothing was meant 'exact' towards you or even your game.

It is years of playing games that 'come so close' to what you want but then there are incredibly silly things about them that ruin your experience,

it is also combined with (as noted above) a person is more apt to get 'emotional' over something they were really looking forward to.

Unfortunately being told to 'watch my tone' or whatever has put insult to injury here, you can take this however you want but do you think it looks good that a player gets really frustrated (and doesn't attack anybody 'personally', though maybe you took it that way) and then gets told to 'shut it' ?

What I was saying stands, the frustration about the game, I had, have, a very negative experience trying to make it 'work',

and what's happening (as you can see all over the net) players are becoming frustrated with 'alpha' games that charge big bucks and try them (after buying) only to find out extremely 'obvious' aspects of the game aren't/weren't even taken seriously in their design.

It's obvious you've had a lot of feedback/input so again, how do you expect a player to 'feel' when after however many (long) months of development and so much player 'feedback' the most basic aspect of the game is not only 'confusing' but incredibly frustrating?

I'm sorry about the tone of my post (it's nothing but a high level of intensity and frustration that comes from years of being disappointed (and ripped off) as a gamer, having Aries in me -and- the post being made after literally an hour of dinking around at that 'table' - which you can imagine was INCREDIBLY frustrating.. ), nothing in it was 'personal'.

Unfortunately seeing now that you are the 'post-police' I'm going to feel more disappointed about the game's direction because you were more interested in turning this into some personal thing instead of actually asking " Well what do you think could have been done better?".


You know let me add something, I done 3d max for years, draw, paint, started game engine programs (to make games etc) so trust me when I say I --totally-- know how frustrating and annoying it is when 'obvious' things don't work,

how many times do you go to do something in modeling (or programming) and that one 'simple' thing turns out into a 2-hour nightmare, vertices don't line up, booleans go all over the place, etc..

What I'm trying to get at here is those things are 'expected' sooner or later, because that's a 'job'.

-- The problems you have at 'work' are expected in life, the issues you have in 'gaming' are -Not- expected because that's why people 'game', to unwind and relax -after- a hard days work and they -do Not- want a 'job's level of frustration' when they paid money to simply "relax" and unwind. --

What frustrated/frustrates me (and if it happened to me you can be sure it's happening to a lot of players, I'm not exactly the lowest common denominator in gaming..) is that a 'player' -pays- to get a simple, fun, 'working' experience.

If the sole premise of the game (making weapons) is unbelievably impossible and annoying, how do you expect the player to feel?

This isn't about 'playing games' this is about stealing people's 'time' - when you get stuck programming you push through cause at the end you'll have a 'final product', and get paid and find 'success' in your life.

When a gamer gets 'stuck' at these infantile situations never mind he 'paid' money, never mind he's trying to 'have fun', but we're talking losing important hours of your life just simply to relax a bit before bed,

and those hours 'add up' and before you know it you 'gave' not just money but time, effort, feelings, emotions (like how I ended up having to 'vent' in my post etc..)

Simply put it's not just about 'not being able to make a sword' it's about feeling like you're being massively insulted as a player.

And then on top to be told, 'Listen here buddy I don't like your tone'.. well I don't know what to tell you,

basically I think you'd be far better off to have surmised a reply like, "I'm sorry to hear you're frustrated what do you think I/we could have done to make it better?"

You made a game that makes a player feel 'insulted' for having to spend so much time and effort in trying to do the most basic thing that game was designed to do (i.e. make weapons - imagine you picked up Street Fighter 10 and you couldn't figure out how to punch or kick, or a 'racer' and you couldn't figure out how to accelerate the car etc), and then make the person feel insulted again for having vented his feelings about it (which I tried to do in a neutral way, sorry if it came across personal),

how would you take it if you were that player?


And I don't consider you the 'sole' dev, I consider all your kickstarters (if you have them), playtesters, etc as 'part' of your dev team.

I do that with any and all games there's no such thing as a 'sole' dev, only a sole decision maker who decides what assets, code and game design gets in the final product.

That's part of why my initial post was so 'frustrated' sounding, I'm adding up not just 'your' time making the game but all the others who played it, tried it, had input on it etc.

[Speedy]

nice bro

[DEFIANCE is Back !!]

You know I lost another hour of my time (writing these posts - not that I'm 'mad' about it, just trying to put context into the fact other people's time, effort, feelings and labour are 'involved' in things like this),

Missed my workout, etc etc

Bottom line is this --

If a 'game' is made this user 'unfriendly' (again, note the 'journey' (Kurzidan's post) someone has to take to simply figure out how to make a simple weapon),

- And - they're being 'charged' for the game (as in having to pay actual money),

you know what?

bottom line no, it's not acceptable.


I started this thread with 'frustration and big letters', I'm ending it flat-out telling you this is the kind of stuff that's 'wrong' with gaming today,

devs releasing stuff that obviously either a. - doesn't work right (bugged, doesn't work at all), or

b. - works so 'badly' (awkward, confusing, needing to go 'out-of-game' like 20 different times to figure something out), that no, it's not excusable or acceptable.

Yes, you're totally free to 'get away' with it, even condemn players voicing their opinions,

but it's all just adding to the 'bad taste' players are getting and they won't tolerate these 'alphas' anymore never knowing if they can count on what's going to be made as a 'final product' or not.

[Kurzidan]

You ain't gotta join discord to look at PNG links ...i.e... IMAGES. Like I said, I didn't call them all images, but they were all I provided across the board when I later said in the first post, "Additional images"... At least, none of my browsers had to open discord nor web discord or be logged into web discord to do so.

There is no "journey". Not for creating items in MLBS

I don't know what you're doing to make assembly so frustrating on your part.
If you looked at the images, You can see I either used the 2h you're complaining about
Or completely ignored it, assembling things left and right right next to it. There was zero issue involved in combining the items, And me knowing already how to combine items, shouldn't be an issue, because you brought up the book, and what I'm doing, is what is written in the book, which is why I screenshotted pages of the book.

Page 12 - Dagger = "small blade" + grip (There's also sword, axe, hammer, polearm, and pickaxe)
Each category of item on the z-wheel, is labeled, depending on how many heated ingots you've got on the anvil. You've got several places informing you that you press Z, and to use heated ingots, placed on the anvil. Even if you don't have any. At minimum, there's still the icons denoting which section belongs to which item class.
page 17 - forge, page 18 - anvil indicate about heated ingots, as well as a note on the board.

It isn't buggy or broken. It works just fine. It took me all of a few moments to boot up the game, separately, for BOTH POSTS, make a brand new save each post, and take those screenshots
I made several different weapons in several different places around the 2h grip (one hand hammer, one hand axe, dagger) (large/great/ two hand double axe and greatsword (which also requires a guard(noted on page 12) (2h guards are denoted with (2h) and "Strong")


I imagine Dasius' "behavior" comment is related to you seemingly ignoring my response, only to then make another post that included

I'll leave it at that and hopefully you can repent and amend your ways to whichever higher powers you serve..

and

(embarassing that games are made like this nowadays.. )

This was equivalent, if not, much worse/more hostile than

I appreciate your input and criticism on the state of the game and I apologize for the inconveniences, however, I would like to point out that I don't appreciate your behavior and would recommend you consider a alternative method of expressing your opinion and views without being hostile, as it is counter productive.

Dasius I appreciate your reply however being told about my 'behaviour' took my general, neutral message and now I feel like I'm personally being attacked for my frustration in the game.

I don't see how you would expect "repenting" and "embarrassing" were very neutral takes, or why you would feel they wouldn't get called out...

You know I lost another hour of my time (writing these posts - not that I'm 'mad' about it, just trying to put context into the fact other people's time, effort, feelings and labour are 'involved' in things like this),

Missed my workout, etc etc

Everyone in the world is on a time limit. Dasius puts a lot of time and effort, work and feelings into this game, too, among other things I'm sure/hope.
I put a some time and effort into my responses, too, I tried to ignore your "repenting" and "embarrassing" statements, as well, booted up the game each time to take the screenshots, in a fresh save.

the first post was me trying to correct/clear up some misinformation, as well as try and figure out where the misinformation, came from, as well as trying to clarify the process of creating a weapon. - Which after having tried to look around for it, I sat down at the only book I could really think of and slowly read over it... At the *end* just before homebuilding, on page 19 LINK IS AN IMAGE OF SAID PAGE https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491346862536917012/682285771939643470/unknown.png is what appears to be what you referred to... This page is after page 11, 12, 13, 17 and 18, As one might conclude by ascending page numbers.
It doesn't mentioned required parts. Though it does assume you saw the pages before it, which are shown in the images I linked, which are screenshots taken from the game, the steam version, of the game.

The second post was really just more of the same, calling into question the misinformation, The game doesn't hold your hand, but it doens't just abandon you in a picnic basket out in the wilderness, either. From what I read, many of your questions were answered in the book, and/or with the notes in the same room, some of your complaints, are reasonable to make non-hostile suggestions/requests for, some, didn't hold up when I went to try them out in game, like how the 2h grip negated you from doing anything. In a completely fresh save, the 2h grip did nothing to stop me from assembling things right beside it, nor on the rest of the table. The only thing it stopped me from doing was attaching any guard or blade to the 2h grip, itself, Something that a extremely quick right click, immediately "broke" or rather "fixed" - As it went from being inactive, to immediately active, without even holding down the right click. I didn't gain anything from moving it, aside from the free 2h grip that it was, and the removal of something that would bug my ocd cause its just floating there.




I don't think Alphas and Early access is something you, specifically you Celendrin, Should be getting into. You do not seem to have the mindset for it. Alphas and EAs like this are specifically expected to change. They are specifically expected to have parts that aren't going to be in the final product, because they're specifically expected, to change parts based on consumer/user opinion. - There are additions to the game already, that were brought about by other user suggestions, and there are going to be removals, if there aren't already some that I can't recall off the top of my head, based off user suggestions.
And both these additions, and removals, can, and probably will, make saves obsolete, change factors of the game, that someone else might have preferred, and otherwise "change what will making it into the final product"
I mean there's been a lot of small things I can think of that "User input" changed in some way, There's probably also a lot of larger things that I don't even consider, that has been affected. There's a lot of bugs reported, as well, and there's a lot of bugs fixed, there's more bugs reported, etc
If you're buying an alpha expecting it to be in a state that will always be similar to the finished product, you're buying for the wrong reasons.
I can think of two games immediately whose Alpha is wildly different than their final product, even while still being similar.

Minecraft and Starbound, Both games I supported the development of, and watched go through some extreme changes.
Minecraft is still going through extreme changes, practically every major update even beyond the "final product" or "release" has been an extreme change. And plenty of bugs come with all of them still... but.. I digress. Its alpha is quite different to its beta and its release and its current version. Most of it IS additions... but not all of it.
Starbound is way more removals and alterations, though. The threat, the combat, the damage, the way traveling works, the way even mining works, A good amount of the games individual parts went through several reworks. There was plenty of things that, plenty of people liked, in the alpha, That are not in the final version. Either because of removal or because they were drastically altered.

[Dasius]

Hey Calendrin,

I don't want this to escalate. We're all here to have fun. I make games so people can have fun. I want you to enjoy the game as well and my aim isn't to screw anyone over by making the game bad and charging money for it. I've been working on this game for 3 years and it still has a long way to go. This is my baby. It might be an ugly baby but its still mine.
I apologize you feel offended by what I said but hopefully you can understand that I and probably others also felt like what you said was a direct personal attack and that's all I wanted to address because I would like to keep things civil.
You have every right to voice your opinion in any tone you feel is necessary to mirror how you feel and I would never discourage that. Hopefully we can put this behind us.
Any bugs you want to report, I invite you to post them in the bug report forum so that I can work on fixing them. That way everyone can have a less frustrating experience playing the game.

Cheers!