Game too strict

[blockbuster45]

I have played a lot of stealth games, hitman games, mark of the ninja, metal gear series, the first tenchu games, the thief series...

And i must say the stealth in this game looks to strict becaus eof the ways the amps are made and soldiers are disposed.The suits are not always that effective and achieving something like saboteur ranking seems almost to impossible without spending ages and ages on the map. I am not against challenge but i feel difficulty should have been polished and maybe closer to old hitman levels. Even hitman 2 seems easier in comparison to death of spies.

[V-Man]

Originally posted by CGCblockbuster45:

I have played a lot of stealth games, hitman games, mark of the ninja, metal gear series, the first tenchu games, the thief series...

And i must say the stealth in this game looks to strict becaus eof the ways the amps are made and soldiers are disposed.The suits are not always that effective and achieving something like saboteur ranking seems almost to impossible without spending ages and ages on the map. I am not against challenge but i feel difficulty should have been polished and maybe closer to old hitman levels. Even hitman 2 seems easier in comparison to death of spies.

Death to Spies is actually a lot more elaborate than Hitman 2, but it's also much more fair.
If your complaint is about taking enemies out on expert, understand that you have to explicitly use the sneak command. You can't just crouch walk into a guy.
The main appeal of the game is finding the holes in the security, so while it may be a harsh game, it is also quite fair.
The suits are only effective against enemies on the map with green arrows, and even then you cannot use the wrong kind of backpack with the suit, or hold weapons of the wrong kind, or operate in ways that are out of line (running, crawling, sneaking).
Lastly, saboteur ranking is from what I gather the easiest rating to acquire, as it essentially means gunning your way through. Suit only doesn't seem to be a requirement for it, though I may be wrong (correct me if so, and yes, suit only will, at best, take ages on each map and require breaking stealth at some point).
The "best" rating is Wolfhound in this game.

[blockbuster45]

From the Faq: "You can achieve the highest rank if you accomplish the mission playing as saboteur, without changing clothes, with minimal noise and a high level of professionalism. The latter feature will grow if you use close combat weapons – a slip-knot and/or a knife."

[V-Man]

Originally posted by CGCblockbuster45:

From the Faq: "You can achieve the highest rank if you accomplish the mission playing as saboteur, without changing clothes, with minimal noise and a high level of professionalism. The latter feature will grow if you use close combat weapons – a slip-knot and/or a knife."

Eh, getting the rank saboteur is a waste of time. They turned it into it's own MODE in the second game.
The best rating you can REASONABLY get is wolfhound, and this essentially amounts to an exercise in minimalism. Kill if you have to, but only when you HAVE to, chloroform instead of stunning if you can, so on.
You're making this out to be a lot harder than it really is.

[3 Ducks In a Man Suit]

I normally get either "Professional" or "Rookie," depending on whether I use boobytraps or not. I got "Saboteur" once, but honestly I'm not sure what I did differently to get it.

[V-Man]

Originally posted by 3 Ducks In a Man Suit:

I normally get either "Professional" or "Rookie," depending on whether I use boobytraps or not. I got "Saboteur" once, but honestly I'm not sure what I did differently to get it.

It seems to be the reward for not using disguises and slowly, quietly murdering most of the level.

[krashd]

Originally posted by V-Man:

Originally posted by 3 Ducks In a Man Suit:

I normally get either "Professional" or "Rookie," depending on whether I use boobytraps or not. I got "Saboteur" once, but honestly I'm not sure what I did differently to get it.

It seems to be the reward for not using disguises and slowly, quietly murdering most of the level.

No I think saboteur means ninja - i.e. never being seen by anyone so disguises are pointless, you just get to the target, achieve objective and then leave. No one knows a saboteur has been at work until they discover the damage long after he is on a yacht somewhere far far away.

[V-Man]

Originally posted by krashd:

Originally posted by V-Man:

It seems to be the reward for not using disguises and slowly, quietly murdering most of the level.

No I think saboteur means ninja - i.e. never being seen by anyone so disguises are pointless, you just get to the target, achieve objective and then leave. No one knows a saboteur has been at work until they discover the damage long after he is on a yacht somewhere far far away.

Funny enough I've actually written a guide on how to beat the game on hardest difficulty with best rating, and it seems to be Wolfhound.
I know this, because I've tested what happens when you go through a level without any ko's or kills undetected, and it is indeed the Wolfhound rating.

That said, the rating still allows for a different numbr of kills and ko's on each level, with a bizzare tolerance for stuns instead of chloroform depending on the level as well.


I actually had to write an explanation for the rating system in the guide, I hope you find the whole affair worth the read.

[krashd]

I don't think a stun is any different to a chloroform except that it is noisy and will damage your noise rating at the end of the mission. Garotte string is silent, but deadly, stun is noisy but non-lethal and chloroform is both silent and non-lethal.

You should be able to get any 'no kills' bonuses with stuns, but you will make noise.

[V-Man]

Originally posted by krashd:

I don't think a stun is any different to a chloroform except that it is noisy and will damage your noise rating at the end of the mission. Garotte string is silent, but deadly, stun is noisy but non-lethal and chloroform is both silent and non-lethal.

You should be able to get any 'no kills' bonuses with stuns, but you will make noise.

No, I've tested it, it doesn't hurt noise, it hurts "professionalism", which is so arbitrary that it didn't even show up for the next game.
Also, 100% pacifism doesn't really help, for what it's worth.

[twofacetwo]

I'm with OP, this game has a SERIOUS problem with it's difficulty. My repetoire includes MGS1, 2 and 3, as well as the Thief trilogy and the bastard offspring that dares use it's name (the '4th' game).
And this game is pretty damn horrible from it's difficulty.

[V-Man]

Originally posted by twofacetoo:

I'm with OP, this game has a SERIOUS problem with it's difficulty. My repetoire includes MGS1, 2 and 3, as well as the Thief trilogy and the bastard offspring that dares use it's name (the '4th' game).
And this game is pretty damn horrible from it's difficulty.

I'm not really seeing anything that actually fits the social stealth subgenre in there.
Honestly, I made a guide for this game almost entirely to deal with the numerous claims that this game was overly difficult; it's not, you just need to understand that the game limits your capability more than most in it's genre and work around that.

[twofacetwo]

Originally posted by V-Man:

it's not, you just need to understand that the game limits your capability more than most in it's genre and work around that.

That DOESN'T make this game harder? The fact that you have blatantly just stated it makes it harder than most games?

[V-Man]

Originally posted by twofacetoo:

Originally posted by V-Man:

it's not, you just need to understand that the game limits your capability more than most in it's genre and work around that.

That DOESN'T make this game harder? The fact that you have blatantly just stated it makes it harder than most games?

I mean, if you rush in and aren't patient or willing to observe patrol pattterns? This will make the game hard.
But if you don't approach this from a puzzle-like standpoint, you're probably going to have a very, very hard time, yes.

You have to get better at the skills the game demands, and those aren't reflex based, they're based around the kind of skills that ensures you become skilled at something like Hitman.

A good way to put it is that using a guide and saves will simply break this game for you.
It's not hard, you just need to get better at finding the solution.

[Stranger]

Originally posted by blockbuster45:

From the Faq: "You can achieve the highest rank if you accomplish the mission playing as saboteur, without changing clothes, with minimal noise and a high level of professionalism. The latter feature will grow if you use close combat weapons – a slip-knot and/or a knife."

It's not correct. You can't complete the game without switching clothes. Use close combat weapons to increase your Professionalism.

[BOT Cecil]

If you guys think this game is hard you should try Commandos. Now that is a hard game.
In this game it's not hard to spot holes in patterns. It requires mostly patience.