Bloom and Reach

[Pitohui]

The most stupid mechanic to ever be designed in video games. A whole design based around chance instead of individual skill level which is completely flawed. For those who do not no how bloom works it essentially is your shots being put out through a cone. The more you shoot the more the cone (your reticle) grows in size which causes shots to miss even though your reticle is red and on target. This was brought in Halo:Reach when it first released back in early September of 2010 which crippled the competitive nature of Halos Esport events. Once 343 took over Reach they removed bloom all together which made competitive and social games return to a state of balance and skill. But with the current MCC it is back in a so called (reduced state) which is laughable as it still has a large impact on gun fights regardless.

[Pitohui]

Originally posted by Haflip:

Reach has zero bloom gametypes and you can use a file editor to take bloom out of any gametype you want.

I'd rather find a match then wait.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Bloom causes weapons to behave much the same way they do in the real world; if you've never tried to group shots on a real target, the end effect is basically the same as what you're describing here: if you're putting rounds downrange at a rapid clip, your grouping won't be all that tight, because recoil causes your aim to shift--and outside of exceptionally skilled shooters with specifically-tailored weapons, most people cannot compensate for recoil adequately enough to keep shot groups tight.

The grand majority of ranged weapons in Halo are nigh recoilless, and a weapon in the real world doesn't start to spread bullet holes across the side of a barn after one second of continuous fire.

[Fastspectre]

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Bloom causes weapons to behave much the same way they do in the real world; if you've never tried to group shots on a real target, the end effect is basically the same as what you're describing here: if you're putting rounds downrange at a rapid clip, your grouping won't be all that tight, because recoil causes your aim to shift--and outside of exceptionally skilled shooters with specifically-tailored weapons, most people cannot compensate for recoil adequately enough to keep shot groups tight.

The grand majority of ranged weapons in Halo are nigh recoilless, and a weapon in the real world doesn't start to spread bullet holes across the side of a barn after one second of continuous fire.

hm... but isn't that Halo MCC's thing weapons that are super inacurate beyond 75 meter range and a lot of them can't even headshot, isn't Halo weapons max range something like 360 meters anyway
also bloom is actually not bad in simulating recoil
correct me if i'm wrong it's definetly better then what they did with the BR, it seems to me on that thing shots 1 and 2 are hitting randomly in the crosshair arrea (more or less affected by bullet magnetism) while the 3rd shot does hit dead center of your crosshair in reality the 1st shot of the burst would be the most accurate one and 2 and 3 would spread...
lots of things that make no sense and are worse then bloom

[TheBlackParade]

lol editing a topic when your in the wrong. classic.

[throwing smoke]

All Halo games have spread that decreases accuracy the more you shoot. Just view the map files in Assembly. Halo games have no recoil so they compensate with spread, a thing a lot of classic shooters do. Reach was just the first to visualize it on your crosshair.

The main problem with Reach is that it drastically increases the max accuracy penalty for all weapons, where 1-3 was mild in that regard.

For instance:
BR in Halo 3 min spread = 0.15 / max spread = 0.5
DMR in Reach min spread = 0.15 / max spread = 2

[Weaselly]

Originally posted by Rukasu:

Originally posted by Haflip:

Reach has zero bloom gametypes and you can use a file editor to take bloom out of any gametype you want.

I'd rather find a match then wait.

Then you won't be happy. There is literally a problem in every way you express unless the devs change the game to suit your whim.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by F4stw1nd:

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

The grand majority of ranged weapons in Halo are nigh recoilless, and a weapon in the real world doesn't start to spread bullet holes across the side of a barn after one second of continuous fire.

bloom is actually not bad in simulating recoil

If "not bad" means "very inaccurate," then yes, it's not bad.
A weapon fired from a fingertip grip will fire as accurately as the same weapon from a bipod.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by Weaselly:

Originally posted by Rukasu:

I'd rather find a match then wait.

Then you won't be happy. There is literally a problem in every way you express unless the devs change the game to suit your whim.

Oh no, we can't have consumer demands being met, now can we?

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

Originally posted by F4stw1nd:

bloom is actually not bad in simulating recoil

If "not bad" means "very inaccurate," then yes, it's not bad.
A weapon fired from a fingertip grip will fire as accurately as the same weapon from a bipod.

This assumes a solid firing position and a snug grip; the bullet will travel in a straight line regardless of how the weapon is fired, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing and a garbage grip will cause that straight line to terminate somewhere other than the point the shooter was aiming at because...wait for it...recoil.

Which bloom simulates.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

If "not bad" means "very inaccurate," then yes, it's not bad.
A weapon fired from a fingertip grip will fire as accurately as the same weapon from a bipod.

This assumes a solid firing position and a snug grip; the bullet will travel in a straight line regardless of how the weapon is fired, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing and a garbage grip will cause that straight line to terminate somewhere other than the point the shooter was aiming at because...wait for it...recoil.

Which bloom simulates.

Almost every guy with a gun in the games, all player characters included, is a trained soldier, "♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing" and "garbage grip" shouldn't apply, at least to that majority.

Besides, the weapons in-game settle so quickly that this "simulation" you're talking about is wildly inaccurate.

[An Irate Walrus]

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

This assumes a solid firing position and a snug grip; the bullet will travel in a straight line regardless of how the weapon is fired, but ♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing and a garbage grip will cause that straight line to terminate somewhere other than the point the shooter was aiming at because...wait for it...recoil.

Which bloom simulates.

Almost every guy with a gun in the games, all player characters included, is a trained soldier, "♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing" and "garbage grip" shouldn't apply, at least to that majority.

Besides, the weapons in-game settle so quickly that this "simulation" you're talking about is wildly inaccurate.

Eh. I qualified like everyone else at BCT, and what I can tell you from that experience is that I am a *hell* of a lot more accurate when I'm in a solid position (kneeling or prone for preference) and fully tucked in prior to firing.

Firing from a standing position reduces total accuracy because your ability to support the weapon is drastically reduced. Add to that rapid trigger action and *firing while on the move*, and you have a recipe for significantly poorer accuracy than what you would have from a still, supported position.

This idea that even a trained soldier can fire with steady, consistent aim while on the move (which is where most of the fire exchanges happen in this or any other FPS) is a fabulist fiction. Add to that automatic fire (which will destroy shot groupings unless the weapon is on a support like a bipod, and even then, the gunner needs to be braced, and will *still* produce a cone of effect rather than a steady stream of tightly-grouped shots), and, well, bloom is about the best approximation of that total effect we have.

You know which automatic weapons produce relatively tight shot groupings? The vulcan cannons slung underneath Apache gunships or A-10 Warthog gunships.

And they're machines. The only human interface is through the trigger mechanism on the flight stick. Direct human interface with a firearm creates a series of opportunities for reduced accuracy, many of which compound with one another.

[Weaselly]

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

Originally posted by Weaselly:

Then you won't be happy. There is literally a problem in every way you express unless the devs change the game to suit your whim.

Oh no, we can't have consumer demands being met, now can we?

You know as well as I do that if 343 hasn't gotten rid of it by now that they likely never will. There's something to be said for optimism versus not pessimism, but realism.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by An Irate Walrus:

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

Almost every guy with a gun in the games, all player characters included, is a trained soldier, "♥♥♥♥♥♥ standing" and "garbage grip" shouldn't apply, at least to that majority.

Besides, the weapons in-game settle so quickly that this "simulation" you're talking about is wildly inaccurate.

Eh. I qualified like everyone else at BCT, and what I can tell you from that experience is that I am a *hell* of a lot more accurate when I'm in a solid position (kneeling or prone for preference) and fully tucked in prior to firing.

Firing from a standing position reduces total accuracy because your ability to support the weapon is drastically reduced. Add to that rapid trigger action and *firing while on the move*, and you have a recipe for significantly poorer accuracy than what you would have from a still, supported position.

This idea that even a trained soldier can fire with steady, consistent aim while on the move (which is where most of the fire exchanges happen in this or any other FPS) is a fabulist fiction. Add to that automatic fire (which will destroy shot groupings unless the weapon is on a support like a bipod, and even then, the gunner needs to be braced, and will *still* produce a cone of effect rather than a steady stream of tightly-grouped shots), and, well, bloom is about the best approximation of that total effect we have.

You know which automatic weapons produce relatively tight shot groupings? The vulcan cannons slung underneath Apache gunships or A-10 Warthog gunships.

And they're machines. The only human interface is through the trigger mechanism on the flight stick. Direct human interface with a firearm creates a series of opportunities for reduced accuracy, many of which compound with one another.

There's a difference between the accuracy of the weapon and the accuracy of the shooter.

"Bloom" in the sense the OP is referring to is a real thing, it is not a "simulation" of recoil, and it is greatly exaggerated in Halo.

Whether the shooter is stationary or moving, grounded or airborne has no impact on weapon accuracy in any Halo title.

Fabricated ring worlds, cyborg super soldiers and space-faring, multi-species, alien empires are also fiction.

[Random Gamer 1337]

Originally posted by Deathscare:

Originally posted by Random Gamer 1337:

There's a difference between the accuracy of the weapon and the accuracy of the shooter.

"Bloom" is a real thing, it is not a "simulation" of recoil, and it is greatly exaggerated in Halo.

Whether the shooter is stationary or moving, grounded or airborne has no impact on weapon accuracy in any Halo title.

Fabricated ring worlds, cyborg super soldiers and space-faring, multi-species, alien empires are also fiction.

You cannot comfirm or deny alien empires as fiction yet.

You also cannot confirm or deny that unicorns are works of fiction.

[Haflip]

There's no reason for 343 to remove bloom from their matchmade playlists when most are already running TU settings in which the Needle Rifle is zero bloom, some of the playlists they rotate out do have zero bloom gametypes, and the Custom Game Browser is coming with Season 7 so you can host or join zero bloom gametypes made by the community.