Halo Reach is the best

[hawkthief]

what y'all think?

[hawkthief]

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

i hope you recover from liking halo reach soon.

We've gotta recover from how hard Reach hit, for sure.

[angstlicht]

Początkowo opublikowane przez hawkthief:

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

nearly every video game depicts defeat

Yeah, but not like Reach. I meant lore-wise and you knew what I meant lol.

no, i really don't. lore wise, reach is a failure of storytelling where it has 2 drastically contradicting invasions, vaguely tied together by datapads alluding to the halo 5 created assembly re-writing time and space just so two kinda mediocre stories could happen instead of one okay one.

it's also a weird retcon because in halo 2 lord hood is confused by the small covenant fleet arriving at earth. in halo reach we see a small covenant incursion on the planet first, so regret's small fleet before seeing a much bigger fleet, is no longer different to how reach itself played out in that game. i guess ron perlman didn't remember reach.

Losing well is not for everyone, I guess.

i mean it isn't for anyone, really.

Reach was a prequel so it couldn't have been the ending. In Halo 3 they have "Remember Reach" graffiti-ed places, so Reach couldn't be the "ending" to Halo.

i wasn't arguing reach was the ending, or even that it should've served as one. i was just explaining that, as literal products, reach is onramping new players and halo 3 is wrapping up story beats for returning players.

Are you talking about the abilities? Like jetpack and sprint? Spartans have tech, I don't see the issue with abilities like that.

no, at least not specifically those. reach has a lot of modern warfare-isms in the conveyance and tone, while halo 2 and 3 felt more like summer blockbuster movies or pirates of caribbean or space adventures. i'm not complaining about this change really, because it's hit or miss, and frankly it succeeded in bringing in a new audience, anyway.

When Masterchief is slacking, Noble Team's attacking.

correct.

again when i say reach is 'bad', i don't mean it's a lousy video game. i mean it's probably the exact game where halo pivoted away from what i enjoy about it. i even preferred odst to it, honestly. in terms of just subjective taste, i legitimately felt worse about romeo getting his lung punctured than anyone in noble team full-on dying. why didn't they just use armor lock in the cutscene too, like master chief? would've lived.

[Jimbo Juice 9000]

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

for my money's worth, it was the first 'bad' halo game. winter contingency starts off strong enough, and i like the run of missions from tip of the spear to new alexandria, but in general it's way, way too generic. low multiplayer map variety, nearly all forge maps are grey, and if the game didn't have new alexandria or the jetpack ability it'd be actual trash.

in retrospect, it was all a design test bed for the destiny series, along with ODST's mombasa streets hub and firefight.

a halo game's quality can be indirectly measured by two things:
-how much is dr halsey in it (the more she's in it, the worse the game)
-how many times do you have to stick an elite on legendary to kill him (if more than 1, bad)

erm this comment smells

[Remember No Russian]

Początkowo opublikowane przez JimboJuice:

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

for my money's worth, it was the first 'bad' halo game. winter contingency starts off strong enough, and i like the run of missions from tip of the spear to new alexandria, but in general it's way, way too generic. low multiplayer map variety, nearly all forge maps are grey, and if the game didn't have new alexandria or the jetpack ability it'd be actual trash.

in retrospect, it was all a design test bed for the destiny series, along with ODST's mombasa streets hub and firefight.

a halo game's quality can be indirectly measured by two things:
-how much is dr halsey in it (the more she's in it, the worse the game)
-how many times do you have to stick an elite on legendary to kill him (if more than 1, bad)

erm this comment smells

If this dude controlled the marketing team Bungie would have been bankrupt. A car crash in visual text

[Jimbo Juice 9000]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Remember No Russian:

Początkowo opublikowane przez JimboJuice:

erm this comment smells

If this dude controlled the marketing team Bungie would have been bankrupt. A car crash in visual text

erm, doubly!

[angstlicht]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Remember No Russian:

Początkowo opublikowane przez JimboJuice:

erm this comment smells

If this dude controlled the marketing team Bungie would have been bankrupt. A car crash in visual text

marketing team? is that like noble team? are those spartan-IVs?

anyway, i'm fully aware the MCC-era halo fanbase loves its reach. doesn't change that it's just genuinely the least compelling bungie game for me, unless you dig up really old stuff like ODS.

if intermittently replaying it over the years hasn't changed my mind on this game being bog standard 7th generation fodder, this thread won't. sorry for taking up your time.

[countgrey]

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

Początkowo opublikowane przez countgrey:

If you have to backtrack in Reach, they make sure the level is suitably different (beyond the original trilogy's strategy of "oh, now you're facing different enemies as you do the level backwards, so different").

i mean it isn't that different, it's just good both times.

im not actually too sure when you do bad backtracking vs good backtracking in halo franchise, even. halo design really blurs the line on that wherever it can. the sword base level and new alexandria are basically mini-destiny-patrol-hubs in structure, so they're made to be arbitrarily re-back-tracked-through. you double back to jorge in tip of the spear and that's kinda not great, but i'm not really sure what an example of 'good' backtracking would be in that context.

To be clear, I'm just simply not much of a fan of fighting more - or different - enemies as you play through a level backwards. As a gimmick, it gets old pretty quickly after the first couple of times.

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

halo 3 has that tank beats everything part in the ark where you get a scorpion to re-play through a few zones. and floodgate. halo 1 re-used old maps all the time but it's kinda part of that game's structure, that it loops back around in the back half. front half of halo 1 is christmas, back half is halloween. halo reach does that same thing with sword base and the package.

CE is obviously the most egregious in that respect, and I recognize the necessity of it as both a plot and technical limitation. Yes, having a Scorpion for The Ark in H3 was fun at first, but after a few playthroughs it just becomes way too easy. At least in Reach, the map has had some significant changes from Sword Base to The Package, and those levels only have a few minutes of overlap due to The Package focusing on a completely new section of the map that wasn't accessible before. New Alexandria doesn't bother me too much because you can at least go in a direct line from point to point, so it doesn't feel like you're wasting your time.

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

Poor Master Chief often strikes me as trying to complete a mission in spite of his "team" lol

what are you trying to say? that captain keyes taunting a covenant corpse with a needler, it super-combining and killing him and making you re-play the rescue mission, is some kind of liability? insubordinate... and churlish! and surrender that AI too!

That and the Marines "helpfully" throwing grenades everywhere...

[angstlicht]

Początkowo opublikowane przez countgrey:

To be clear, I'm just simply not much of a fan of fighting more - or different - enemies as you play through a level backwards. As a gimmick, it gets old pretty quickly after the first couple of times.

yeah it was pretty long in the tooth in 2004, even.

CE is obviously the most egregious in that respect, and I recognize the necessity of it as both a plot and technical limitation. Yes, having a Scorpion for The Ark in H3 was fun at first, but after a few playthroughs it just becomes way too easy.

a lot of halo 3's levels are "take out the AA, clear the LZ" when you break it down, too.

but halo 3's best-liked level, the covenant, still has 3 geometrically identical structures you can move through (though you obviously skip the second one).

and of course, odst's mombasa streets is quite a lot of repeated geometry in a very small amount of time.

i guess what i'm saying is i don't really view this as a problem that halo always had and then reach solved it. more like it was a way of saving space with the conveyance and reach... also did it too.

At least in Reach, the map has had some significant changes from Sword Base to The Package, and those levels only have a few minutes of overlap due to The Package focusing on a completely new section of the map that wasn't accessible before.

well more than that it's a pillar of autumn / the maw type scenario where you see that level before it's ruined and after it's conquered to get a sense of how the invasion's gone. stuff like that actually is fine in my view.

New Alexandria doesn't bother me too much because you can at least go in a direct line from point to point, so it doesn't feel like you're wasting your time.

new alexandria is legitimately pretty good. i also liked parts of exodus, where you actually see evacuations in progress and help them. new mombasa was always pretty deserted so it never really felt like you were rescuing anyone.

edit: halo wars' arcadia evacuation mission also kinda did this, too. that was pretty rough.

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

what are you trying to say? that captain keyes taunting a covenant corpse with a needler, it super-combining and killing him and making you re-play the rescue mission, is some kind of liability? insubordinate... and churlish! and surrender that AI too!

That and the Marines "helpfully" throwing grenades everywhere...

imho the flood were invented when chips dubbo said 'get up so i can kill you again.' crazy fool, just loves to run his mouth...

[Baroon]

Początkowo opublikowane przez angstlicht:

-how much is dr halsey in it (the more she's in it, the worse the game)
-how many times do you have to stick an elite on legendary to kill him (if more than 1, bad)

Why does this actually work

[☆ id/SweetRin ☆ [JP]]

I love halo reach and it had the best armor customization out of any of the halo games in my opinion. But personally for which halo is my overall favorite I have to say halo 2. Reach falls into a hard second favorite halo game. halo 3 third favorite, halo CE fourth. Halo odst and halo 4 i personally didn't like. Never played halo 5 so i cant judge that one.

[hawkthief]

Początkowo opublikowane przez ☆　id/SweetRin　☆　JP:

I love halo reach and it had the best armor customization out of any of the halo games in my opinion.

oh for sure, love that stuff.

Początkowo opublikowane przez ☆　id/SweetRin　☆　JP:

But personally for which halo is my overall favorite I have to say halo 2. Reach falls into a hard second favorite halo game. halo 3 third favorite, halo CE fourth. Halo odst and halo 4 i personally didn't like. Never played halo 5 so i cant judge that one.

Fair, fair. I like Halo ODST too, it is hard-going with having to goof around in the streets for hours. CE's maps are really really repetitive.

[bshock]

Reach is the *only* good Halo game.

[Remember No Russian]

Początkowo opublikowane przez bshock:

Reach is the *only* good Halo game.

Agreed

[Romans 10:9]

I hate being "that guy" but every time I play Reach I can't help but wonder:

Where were the skirmishers in the mainline games?

How come the Covenant never used Needler Rifles in the main games? Those might've been helpful.

Among other nitpicky questions.

[Gabthelazy]

Początkowo opublikowane przez Romans 10:9:

I hate being "that guy" but every time I play Reach I can't help but wonder:

Where were the skirmishers in the mainline games?

How come the Covenant never used Needler Rifles in the main games? Those might've been helpful.

Among other nitpicky questions.

They didn't exist because Bungie didn't thought of them yet.