Why does everyone hate Halo 4?

[COWZYOV]

PLEASE READ BELOW; THIS POST’S TITLE MAY BE A BIT MISLEADING AS TO WHAT IT’S ACTUALLY ABOUT

I’m genuinely curious why so many people hate Halo 4 multiplayer. I haven’t played it yet, but as an “outsider” who was “late to the party” with the Halo series in general, it seems like a great game to me.

I’ve seen many arguments as to why it’s a bad game, but many seem feeble to me on the surface. Perhaps some of you can enlighten me as to why the arguments are valid.
I will elaborate below as to why I think many arguments are feeble:

Argument #1: “Halo 4 is basically Call of Duty”

I get why this IS a knee jerk reaction against Halo 4; Halo 4 does have loadouts and fast respawns, and even a mild scorestreak system.
But I have to ask, why is Call of Duty bad?
I’d mainly say because it’s got no “pickup weapons”, it’s got very short TTK and a general lack of interesting weapons (partially as a result of the short TTK) and scorestreaks cause major snowballing.
Loadouts aren’t directly the cause of Call of Duty being a bad game. Removing loadouts from Call of Duty wouldn’t make it a better game; loadouts arent the problem with Call of Duty per say; the problem is that since players spawn with power weapons, there’s no point in having power weapon pickups.
If you look at the main problems listed above regarding Call of Duty, you may notice that Halo 4 doesn’t have any of these problems. It’s still much more Halo than COD.

Argument #2: “loadouts don’t belong in Halo”

I obviously can’t say “loadouts DO belong in Halo” in answer to this...
But the fact is, loadouts are in Halo 4 to stay.
I can point out reasons why loadouts can be beneficial though:
Fun factors: a well made loadout system (I.e. a non-COD loadout system) can add a consistently high level of variety to the game. Also, it adds a cool “Choose thy weapon!” sort of feel, which I personally was always fond of (sorry for letting my bias bleed in a bit).
Competitive factors: in team-based games, each team member can have a unique role on the team, based on what he can or can’t do. This is seen in Overwatch and Team Fortress of course, but even the Gears series has a slight player role system based on your chosen primary weapon’s effective range (and Gears players actually seem to like the loadout system).

Argument #3: “loadouts ruined Halo 4! There’s no point in grabbing power weapons anymore!”

I don’t get why being able to choose between a BR or DMR makes the Rocket Launcher obsolete. Both those weapons existed in previous Halo games, and both still can’t outperform power weapons unconditionally. The TTK in Halo 4 is a drop shorter than other Halos, but also, all players can sprint (some players have infinite stamina too), so getting into a good position to use your power weapon can be done faster. I think it evens out.
Equal starts are meant to prevent players from spawning with power weapons. Though Halo 4 lacks equal starts, players still can’t spawn with power weapons, and power weapons are still dominant. It’s still Halo in the broad sense.

Argument #4: “Players can spawn with the Boltshot! That’s a power weapon!”

I do agree here, in the sense that an instakill weapon shouldn’t be a loadout weapon; however, I don’t think it’s imbalanced in competitive matches, which is what really matters. The boltshot has a distinctively long charge time, as well as a cooldown. Skilled players can listen for the charge sound and be ready for the attack, taking cover, or even blocking it with a defensive armor ability. Or, if they have a power weapon, they can shoot the opponent dead before his boltshot finishes charging (assuming he doesn’t take cover while charging). Also, the boltshot can be outranged by literally any other spawn weapon in the game.
While I agree the Boltshot is a... risky addition to the game, I don’t think it’s game breaking.

Argument #5: “Halo 3 already exists; what’s the points of playing anything else?”

I can’t argue on a matter of opinion; while Halo 3 is probably the most “mainstream” Halo, those with slightly different tastes may prefer the whacky innovations of Halo 4.

Argument #6: “The new visual design is (insert profanity here)!”

I feel for you guys. It is frustrating to have a character changed from what you know he’s really supposed to be. I can understand that feeling. Personally, as I mentioned way back at the beginning of this huge post, I never had a problem with this, as I’m an outsider who doesn’t know what it’s “supposed to look like”.
Either way, this, like the previous argument is more opinionated than anything.
Let’s just put it this way: if the developers made a software update to redesign Halo 2 and 3 graphics to look like Halo 4, what would you do?

If you actually read this far, you have A LOT of time on your hands.
Like I said earlier, please enlighten me as to why Halo 4 is so bad. I really do want to understand.
Thanks you all for reading.

[Falleax]

Sprint is stinky and doesn't work for Halo.
Vehicle Health sucks, like it did in Reach and discourages their use.
The visuals are very cluttered and busy, making it more difficult to see what you need to see.

Also when I or others say it's like CoD, we aren't saying CoD is bad, I love CoD 4 so much. It's that we want Halo and CoD to be separate because they both provide their own unique styles of gameplay and if Halo plays too similarly to it, it detracts from what makes Halo unique.

[SictionArc]

ive seen many hate posts that are just 343i hate boners (without them we wouldnt even get these on pc dipsticks) like yes 343i is not a great company but their learning also to answer your question : people seem to hate halo 4/5 mainly due to the mechanics just not being classic halo (i.e ce , 2 ,3 , reach) and pushing for a more casual audience than the other halo games were and the campaigns are full of plot holes that really only get filled when you play the halo wars games and whatnot along with the writing just not being that great (edit: guy above me states a few other reasons i couldnt remember)

[COWZYOV]

Originally posted by Rosy Muscovy:

I could go on for days about why the campaign is an absolute sack of ♥♥♥♥, but your interest seems to be in just the mp. To that end, I would say:

1) sprint was a really bad inclusion, especially as a default ability, as it allowed players to escape punishing situations for free, meaning they don’t have to actually abide by or learn good positioning.

2) having CoD loadouts meant their was no room for weapon progression, which is to say, picking up better and better weapons as you move about the map. This also means knowing a map doesn’t matter for anything outside of “hmmm, lets play from over here, this match”

3) ordinance drops were, above all, the greatest sin. Now players can drop power weapons anywhere they want and nobody can have any gamesense as to when or where power weapons might be. So at any given time you can just be stompted by an opposing player wielding a rocket launcher without any ability to anticipate that. Additionally, the choices are random, which only makes it less enjoyable for the user anyways.

4) artstyle was ♥♥♥♥, lmao. No but really, you can’t tell a single cosmetic apart from another unless you’re right up in someone’s face. Everyone may as well just be the same exact armor type like in Halo CE or 2.

1) I can’t really defend sprint to be honest. I haven’t played Halo 4 yet, so I can’t compare and contrast between Halo with or without sprint. I do know that it works well enough in Gears series though.

2) Like I said in my original post, how do the loadouts detract from the focus on finding stronger weapons? The loadout options are (basically) just spawn weapons from the older games...

3) I admit that I too am skeptical about the ordinance drops. Each player can get only up to 3 per game.
Like sprint, I haven’t yet experienced it firsthand, so I can’t properly gauge how obtrusive it is. Honestly, I’m hoping it’s not so obtrusive. I think you’ve got a really good point here.

[Magoo]

idk my only issue with halo 4 is the the weird infection skins

[COWZYOV]

Originally posted by Rosy Muscovy:

Originally posted by COWZYOV:

2) Like I said in my original post, how do the loadouts detract from the focus on finding stronger weapons? The loadout options are (basically) just spawn weapons from the older games...

If you enjoy BR starts, then I can certainly understand how custom loadouts doesn't seem like all that offensive of an addition. But for many people, such as myself, who like AR starts, the joy of beginning with a very plain weapon and having to scour the map for options is completely removed.

Imagine a game of Halo 2 Anniversary Auto Slayer. Players begin with an SMG and Magnum. From this point, players need to go forth and find weapons around the map to use to their advantage. Perhaps you win your first engagement and start dual wielding magnums or SMGs. Perhaps you find some plasma rifles to combo with your magnum. Perhaps you find a BR, Carbine, Assault Rifle, or any of the various power weapons strewn about the map. The possibilities are numerous and it makes each subsequent life into a game of starting from scratch and building up your possibilities and options. And often times, this will result in you having one weapon, such as a BR during your first life, but on your second life you might have to settle for the nearest Carbine, which keeps the game continually fresh. Each life is a new beginning full of growth.

In contrast, with Halo 4, every life you can spawn with exactly what you want to get the job done. There's no need to explore, and if memory serves me correctly, there's hardly any weapon pickups, if any, on the maps. You have everything you could ever need from the very start and there's no need to explore or build up your arsenal.

I get that. Personally I’m also more of an AR starts guy, but I was under the impression that most players prefer BR starts due to it being more “hardcore” or “competitive”.
But personally, I hate getting plinked from all over the map.
I figured Halo 4 wouldn’t have as much of a problem in this regard, thanks to cqc weapon’s getting buffed, and sprint allowing you to get close enough to outgun a precision weapon wielder.

Also, I was unaware of the fact that Halo 4 has fewer pickup weapons than BR game modes of other games.
Are the Rocket Launchers/Snipers/Shotguns actually absent? That WOULD be seriously bad.

[0strum]

I don't hate Halo 4.

I don't hate it's campaign because it's been several years since I played a grand total of about 1.5 maps of its campaign while visiting relatives.

I also don't hate Halo 4 multiplayer, I hate ALL shooter multiplayers.

[Winblows]

*why do people hate halo 4,5 and maybe reach

[COWZYOV]

Originally posted by Rosy Muscovy:

Originally posted by COWZYOV:

I get that. Personally I’m also more of an AR starts guy, but I was under the impression that most players prefer BR starts due to it being more “hardcore” or “competitive”.
But personally, I hate getting plinked from all over the map.
I figured Halo 4 wouldn’t have as much of a problem in this regard, thanks to cqc weapon’s getting buffed, and sprint allowing you to get close enough to outgun a precision weapon wielder.

Also, I was unaware of the fact that Halo 4 has fewer pickup weapons than BR game modes of other games.
Are the Rocket Launchers/Snipers/Shotguns actually absent? That WOULD be seriously bad.

Yeah man, that's what I was saying with the ordinance drops. There are no power weapons to be picked up on the maps, if memory serves me correctly. Instead, you call them in as a reward for killing sprees. That's what made it more like CoD than just sprinting and loadouts. It's the same reward-the-players-already-doing-good thing with a lack of any actual dynamic elements to the maps outside of vehicles.

EDIT:
After double checking gameplay footage on Youtube, it would seem that 4v4 style gamemodes have pickups just for the power weapons and nothing else. Meanwhile, BTB gamemodes have zero pickups and demand that players make use of the ordinance system for weapons. I still stand by my words though that this is makes for extremely boring gameplay no matter which way you cut it.

I suppose I’d still like 4v4 then. I like Destiny 2 multiplayer, and I know that’s pretty similar to Halo 4. The main pet peeve I have with Destiny 2 is how it forces pve and pvp to mix (upsetting both types of players), and the massive grind in general. Also, the lack of non hitscan weapons.

Halo 4 would still be a refreshing break from all that, based on what you’re saying, and would also beat Destiny 2 in the sense that it has multiple power weapons per map, unlike Destiny, which has only one pickup, period.
Only advantage I guess Destiny 2 would still have would be the lack of ordinance drops...

[Haflip]

It felt like Halo 4 was an attempt to start from scratch, making strange choices about how to go forward. The CoD comparison is valid, for sure, because this happened at a time when a lot of companies were trying to copy CoD's success. I actually really like the "fishstick" control scheme (fishstick because cod lol) and I still use it in the older games now, but some of their new takes on already experimental Reach choices proved questionable.
They removed firefight and didn't replace it with anything as good, they made sprint an ability in all modes, added killstreaks, let players choose their own starting weapons, requiring players to unlock starting weapons, and I just... don't like most of Halo 4's maps. There were some good and interesting ideas in Halo 4, but for the most part it just doesn't feel like a Halo game and I don't have fun playing it

[Rai]

Originally posted by COWZYOV:

Argument #6: “The new visual design is (insert profanity here)!”

I feel for you guys. It is frustrating to have a character changed from what you know he’s really supposed to be. I can understand that feeling. Personally, as I mentioned way back at the beginning of this huge post, I never had a problem with this, as I’m an outsider who doesn’t know what it’s “supposed to look like”.
Either way, this, like the previous argument is more opinionated than anything.
Let’s just put it this way: if the developers made a software update to redesign Halo 2 and 3 graphics to look like Halo 4, what would you do?

If you actually read this far, you have A LOT of time on your hands.
Like I said earlier, please enlighten me as to why Halo 4 is so bad. I really do want to understand.
Thanks you all for reading.

I'm a long time Halo fan, and I actually agree with you on this point.

In fact, I would argue that 99.9% of the complaints against 343's Halos (4 and 5) boil down to "I don't like the fact that it looks different from Bungie's games".

Which is exactly as weak and stupid of an argument as it sounds.

The fact of the matter is both Halo 4 and 5 got mostly positive reviews, and it's just a hardcore segment of the community that hates any sort of change, that is actually complaining about the games.

[Winblows]

Originally posted by Raichiori:

Originally posted by COWZYOV:

Argument #6: “The new visual design is (insert profanity here)!”

I feel for you guys. It is frustrating to have a character changed from what you know he’s really supposed to be. I can understand that feeling. Personally, as I mentioned way back at the beginning of this huge post, I never had a problem with this, as I’m an outsider who doesn’t know what it’s “supposed to look like”.
Either way, this, like the previous argument is more opinionated than anything.
Let’s just put it this way: if the developers made a software update to redesign Halo 2 and 3 graphics to look like Halo 4, what would you do?

If you actually read this far, you have A LOT of time on your hands.
Like I said earlier, please enlighten me as to why Halo 4 is so bad. I really do want to understand.
Thanks you all for reading.

I'm a long time Halo fan, and I actually agree with you on this point.

In fact, I would argue that 99.9% of the complaints against 343's Halos (4 and 5) boil down to "I don't like the fact that it looks different from Bungie's games".

Which is exactly as weak and stupid of an argument as it sounds.

The fact of the matter is both Halo 4 and 5 got mostly positive reviews, and it's just a hardcore segment of the community that hates any sort of change, that is actually complaining about the games.

i dont care what they look like I just never liked how they tryed making the games more open and needing sprint and making the precision weapons even more better by map design took away from the arena shooter element and turned it into a game i find boring the time to kill is too high for me with how long range the fights are usually the only thing i liked was forge, custom games and vehicle fights but it just made me want to play battle field instead

[KZ_Understanding_the_Rain_000]

It just felt off.

Edit: I also think 'hate' may be a bit strong. I actually really enjoyed playing H4 the first couple times through. Never got into the multiplayer though.

I think people were just taken aback by how different it was than the Bungie games.

[ヅModestヅ]

My opinion is that halo 4 (multiplayer/ gameplay) Is not the worst we have seen. But I do think that Halo 4 was not the game they should have been experimenting in. Bungie saved their experimentation for their last title and it worked because they had enough experience to make it work despite the deviation from their formula. Halo 4 was 343i's first game with the series and a lot of fans (including me) were both disappointed with the changes made (good and bad) as well as worried that it was the start of worse changes to come. And with the release of halo 5 many of them were right. Not only did they not listen to fan critique, but they actually doubled down and went further off the deep end. I think that nowadays a lot of old fans see Halo 4 as the starting point for this "downfall", and I wouldn't disagree with them from the position of a long time/ oldschool fan. Hopefully (for long time fans) 343 has listened to feedback this time around and made changes for the better.
Just my two cents.

[Darth Zweig]

Originally posted by ヅModestヅ:

My opinion is that halo 4 (multiplayer/ gameplay) Is not the worst we have seen. But I do think that Halo 4 was not the game they should have been experimenting in. Bungie saved their experimentation for their last title and it worked because they had enough experience to make it work despite the deviation from their formula. Halo 4 was 343i's first game with the series and a lot of fans (including me) were both disappointed with the changes made (good and bad) as well as worried that it was the start of worse changes to come. And with the release of halo 5 many of them were right. Not only did they not listen to fan critique, but they actually doubled down and went further off the deep end. I think that nowadays a lot of old fans see Halo 4 as the starting point for this "downfall", and I wouldn't disagree with them from the position of a long time/ oldschool fan. Hopefully (for long time fans) 343 has listened to feedback this time around and made changes for the better. :MCCMONITOR:
Just my two cents.

This.

Well said.

[halo_xe]

Campaign levels are too bright. Looks like I'm navigating an environment from Tron.