What is the point of Legendary difficulty?

[FreshRevenge]

I am not shy when it comes to difficult games but there is difficult and stupid difficult. I mean when you get hit like 1 or 2 times and you die. How is that fun for anyone? I mean I am sure if I was younger I would have a bit more patience but to me it just stupid that they have it as a requirement. I am sure not everyone that plays Halo gets all the achievments because of the difficulty settings. I mean when I played The Last of Us 2 it didn't have a difficulty requirement. I mean I think you can make it harder but it wasn't a requirement like the last game.

I just finished playing Halo 3 on Heroic and even that I had to approach it differently. Especially dealing with the flood. Its the small ones that annoy me to no end.

[Taka]

引用自 Punished Enclave：

引用自 Kalarual：

Plasma pistol is needed? ♥♥♥♥. I always avoid that like the plague and just spam stickies on shielded enemies, then follow up with headshot if needed. Plasma is like the single weapon I go out of my way to never use. I even resort to meleeing before I pick that crap up.

use the plasma rifle then
plasma beats shields

the plasma rifle I love dual wielding against flood. I felt they worked really well, when I didn't have a shotgun.
but yeah If I had the chance I did use rifle on brutes if I had no grenades.
it's refreshing that despite our opinions on this mode we can actually still talk and not fight like children, which is unheard of in these forums. Thank you.

[Zaxx]

引用自 Kalarual：

I just hate how the plasma pistol feels.

Sure you do, everyone else does because it has no "umph" to it, it sounds weak and it's animated badly. It's a boring peashooter nobody would ever use if it wasn't necessary because of the BS difficulty of legendary so at least you get my point then.

As for my attitude being uncalled for: no, it was absolutely called for since with that badly written post you made me assume that you're some pro player who plays legendary in all Halo games without using the plasma pistol... guess how surprised I was when I checked your achievements, you had less playtime then I have and the only campaign you've completed was Halo 3's. If it was a misunderstanding then great, I'm happy that you're not a "bad person" but you sure as hell didn't help in changing my mind with that first comment.

[Taka]

引用自 Zaxx：

引用自 Kalarual：

I just hate how the plasma pistol feels.

Sure you do, everyone else does because it has no "umph" to it, it sounds weak and it's animated badly. It's a boring peashooter nobody would ever use if it wasn't necessary because of the BS difficulty of legendary so at least you get my point then.

As for my attitude being uncalled for: no, it was absolutely called for since with that badly written post you made me assume that you're some pro player who plays legendary in all Halo games without using the plasma pistol... guess how surprised I was when I checked your achievements, you had less playtime then I have and the only campaign you've completed was Halo 3's. If it was a misunderstanding then great, I'm happy that you're not a "bad person" but you sure as hell didn't help in changing my mind with that first comment.

christ dude. No I don't consider myself a pro. That's you throwing assumptions because I simply posted how I hate the weapon so I do everything I can to NOT use it. if you took it as me being snide or elitist, that's your problem, not mine. If anything, I was applauding the fact you can tolerate it enough to use it. please get off this high horse of yours.

[Zaxx]

引用自 Kalarual：

christ dude. No I don't consider myself a pro. That's you throwing assumptions because I simply posted how I hate the weapon so I do everything I can to NOT use it. if you took it as me being snide or elitist, that's your problem, not mine.

I view this as pointless offtopic "Steam forums bickering" at this point so this will be my only comment on this specific subject.

Here's the thing: the POINT of my comment was my complaints on legendary difficulty, saying that I find it annoying that the plasma pistol suddenly becomes the most useful weapon with that botched balance was just a minor point really. Now I know that I should know better since I've been visiting the Steam forums for years and years now so maybe assuming that any reaction I'd get with my whole post being quoted would reflect to the main subject was foollish... it's just that you know, nobody gives a rats ass about how you hate the plasma pistol in a thread that's literally about the point of legendary difficulty.

So sure, I assumed incorrectly that your comment was an argument about legendary difficulty... but is that really my fault? It's just a thought but maybe you shouldn't throw in random opinions on stuff if that's offtopc, instead just open a thread on the plasma pistol maybe so that you avoid confusion.

[Taka]

引用自 Zaxx：

引用自 Kalarual：

christ dude. No I don't consider myself a pro. That's you throwing assumptions because I simply posted how I hate the weapon so I do everything I can to NOT use it. if you took it as me being snide or elitist, that's your problem, not mine.

I view this as pointless offtopic "Steam forums bickering" at this point so this will be my only comment on this specific subject.

Here's the thing: the POINT of my comment was my complaints on legendary difficulty, saying that I find it annoying that the plasma pistol suddenly becomes the most useful weapon with that botched balance was just a minor point really. Now I know that I should know better since I've been visiting the Steam forums for years and years now so maybe assuming that any reaction I'd get with my whole post being quoted would reflect to the main subject was foollish... it's just that you know, nobody gives a rats ass about how you hate the plasma pistol in a thread that's literally about the point of legendary difficulty.

So sure, I assumed incorrectly that your comment was an argument about legendary difficulty... but is that really my fault? It's just a thought but maybe you shouldn't throw in random opinions on stuff if that's offtopc, instead just open a thread on the plasma pistol maybe so that you avoid confusion.

good lord man you have an answer for everything don't you. okay, let's just talk about how hard legendary is and we will all just repeat ourselves saying "yea it hard" over and over, never veering off that topic like you want, instead of giving off suggestions on how to deal with certain issues in legendary such as "instead of plasma pistol, which you cried about being "forced" to use, try THIS approach!" or "I tried ______ in this part, and that worked for me."

And no, I'm not gonna open a friggin thread about plasma pistol just because you can't handle me giving my opinion on the topic YOU brought up in the first place. If you don't want an opinion, don't say anything about how you feel forced to use a weapon. Because people WILL disagree with you.

[Zaxx]

引用自 Kalarual：

how you feel forced to use a weapon.

It's not how I feel, it's how the game's balanced. For example there's Halo 1 where legendary is supposed to be fair, right? Now I don't know how the game was on console back in the day but on PC the plasma pistol's overcharge not only takes out shields instantly but it also has a slight autoaim.

Meanwhile the game has absolutely no aim assist when played with a mouse and keyboard setup and that can make things hard since:

- The hitboxes are quite janky since it's an old game and a console shooter so a lot of your shots will hit invisible walls when peaking and in general your weapons are just not as accurate as in regular PC FPS titles.

- Mouse aiming has a bit of input lag in Halo 1 for some reason.

- The crosshairs are terrible: they are too large and overdesigned instead of being functional (again: console shooter).

So really this is not Quake, aiming is not fun, accurate and responsive enough yet on legendary things like the plasma rifle will only break shields reliably if 90% of your shots will hit that wildly strafing elite. Compare that to being able to rely on the plasma pistol's slight autoaim that almost guarantees a hit on an enemy that's out in the open.

So no, I don't feel forced, I AM FORCED to use that weapon if I'm not playing on a controller (and I refuse to play FPS on a controller) and that's just not fun to me so I stopped playing on legendary after two maps and switched back to heroic. Really, until the MCC improves in the PC port department (343 should fix the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ hitboxes, add crosshair scale as an option, make mouse aiming more responsive in Halo 1 etc.)

"good lord man you have an answer for everything don't you." - I really don't think that attitude was called for. You made a comment that was easy to misinterpret because it was lazily written and it sucked, that's all there is to it yet you constantly try putting the blame on me for it. Arrogance is not an excuse.

[Mistfox]

引用自 Zaxx：

引用自 Mistfox：

This. So this. Normal and Heroic modes are for fun, but when you really really want to feel like an alien race is out to get you and you're at a massive tech disadvantage, legendary is where you want to be at. You lose Marines like you lose hair and Covenant numbers are endless and they have weapons that can put you down in one shot, THAT'S HALO BABY!!!

I thought videogames were supposed to be fun? I always laughed my arse off the "it's just like how it's supposed to be in real life" arguments, at that point you're basically coming up with a really bad excuse to defend a badly designed game.

And since our opinions trump everything, my opinion is that you are basically coming up with a really bad excuse to ♥♥♥♥ on a good game because, feelings.

What is stopping you from moving that little finger of yours and setting the difficulty to Heroic then? If there is an option given and you VERY SPECIFICALLY CHOSE ONE that you don't like, it's the fault of the game and not a fault of your own personal choice? If Legendary was the only mode in the game, you would be correct, but it is not. You CHOSE the difficulty, no one is pointing an assault rifle to your head and saying "If you don't click Legendary, I'll blow your head off." You chose Legendary OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL, so don't complain of the consequences of your own decisions.

引用自 Zaxx：

Now I don't know how the game was on console back in the day but on PC the plasma pistol's overcharge not only takes out shields instantly but it also has a slight autoaim.

Meanwhile the game has absolutely no aim assist when played with a mouse and keyboard setup and that can make things hard since:

This is false, charged plasma bolts have a slight homing capability in all the games, they work really well against Sentinels.

[Zaxx]

引用自 Mistfox：

This is false, charged plasma bolts have a slight homing capability in all the games.

♥♥♥♥, dude, if you want to comment then why not read what you're reacting to first?

you are basically coming up with a really bad excuse to ♥♥♥♥ on a good game

No, I actually really like Halo, I think most of the franchise is composed of great games, it's just that Legendary difficulty basically has everything that I dislike in difficulty scaling (mainly increased enemy damage, higher enemy health and lower player health) and in my opinion it royally messes up the otherwise great weapon balance. That's bad design, I'm sorry, and since this is a game about a big green cyborg shooting at funny looking aliens in a far future sci-fi setting I find the "Legendary is supposed to be realistic" argument really-really funny.

[Nocturnal Pie]

Imagine complaining you have to change how you play to do well on higher difficulties.

[Mistfox]

引用自 Punished Enclave：

引用自 Larsen：

The flood is a lot more fun to fight on legendary in my opinion. You're forced to go slow and plan your attack, weapon pickups matter more, vehicles feel like a blessing etc. Halo games are pretty strategic compared to other FPS games, I think they really shine on higher difficulties.

Grenades and the shotgun make light work of them.

But yeah the fact halo requires you to think is why I like it so much.

And you really start to feel that grenades are precious. One plasma is one potential elite kill, so when you accidentally stick the grunt that moved in front of the elite, you actually go "Oh damn..."

[Zaxx]

引用自 Punished Enclave：

引用自 Mettle Of Pie：

Imagine complaining you have to change how you play to do well on higher difficulties.

This imagine having to take advantage of the mechanics and learn them on a higher level of play

Nah running at everything with an ar should work on every difficulty.

If you're referring to me then that's not at all what I've said... but the assault rifle is actually a perfect example of why I think Legendary is trash game design.

You see I love the assault rifle, it's great: it looks cool, it has great sound, a really cool reload animation, my favorite melee animations etc. The problem? It's useless on Legendary, I basically can't use one of my favorite weapons because sure, you can still kill grunts with it if you walk into their faces but with a two weapon limit that's really not worth a damn. I do not run around shooting at everything with the AR on Heroic either but there it's a somewhat suboptimal but reliable option against weaker enemies.

Now how does a better game, for example classic Doom do difficulty scaling? Let's say that you're in a room with a shotgun in hand and you're facing 3 shotgunners: no problem, your shotgun will take care of that problem, hell you will be able to complete the game by mostly using the shotgun on let's say easy difficulty. What happens on Ultra Violence though is that suddenly you have 10 shotgunners there instead of 3 so your shotgun will no longer be reliable in that situation and you'll switch to the chaingun, rockets or plasma to quickly mow down those hitscanners.

But apart from this your shotgun will do the same amount of damage, your enemies will have the same amount of health, they'll do the same amount of damage too etc. = your shotgun still works just as well as it did on easy but you will die if you don't make better weapon choices depending on the situation. Compared to this in Halo your AR start sucking massively on Legendary to the point of it not being a viable weapon choice 99% of the time = on Legendary you no longer play the version of the game that is fully featured mechanically. That's bad.

Now as to why I'm bothered by Legendary being trash-garbage instead of just playing on Heroic? Because there is content tied to Legendary difficulty so for example if I want to read all the logs in Reach then I have to play the worst version of the game, if I want to find all the skulls then I have to play the worst version of the game etc. because some of these objects don't even spawn on lower difficulties. How terrible is that?

[Mistfox]

The AI here is a lot smarter than in Doom. You won't get 10 shotgunners waiting for you to walk into their sights, you'll get 10 Elites chucking 3-4 grenades when they see you duck round the corner. What works in Doom won't work in Halo because the AI and the game itself is different. Just upping the numbers in Halo is even worse because you already got limited ammo, if you just added mobs, I bet you'll be forced to finish levels in melee combat. In most of Halo, despite the toughness, the right weapon will take out your enemy with the same ammo expenditure as in normal. Except for Ultras, those you have to noob combo specifically or just see if you can dig up a vehicle or vehicle weapon. Adding more enemies will just rack your ammo usage up to insane levels.

[Detached Vector]

引用自 Kalarual：

引用自 General Commander Anderson：

Turn down your draw distance so they can't see you across the map.
Also, take your time when approaching new parts of a map. MKB motivates you to charge in head first without paying attention to your own 70 HP.

I've never tried legendary. The random oneshots from jackals is intense ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. the grenade spam from grunts, okay. but brute shots EVERYWHERE lmao. Does DD actually help?

Yes. Jackal marksmen cannot see you across the map. Lower settings creates a draw distance pop in that prevents you from seeing them and them from seeing you. It gives you time to react to them. I was testing it out on 360 Halo 3 and low settings PC Halo 3 MCC.

https://youtu.be/OXKm_eZbB4s

This guy is obnoxious, but his demonstration shows how you can use it to your advantage. Despite what he reasons, FOV means nothing. It's about the graphical settings:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnJkmhaCDKY

[Zaxx]

引用自 Mistfox：

The AI here is a lot smarter than in Doom.

That's a fair point but you know, the new Doom games still follow a similar path in difficulty scaling and those have much more advanced AI than what you get in the classics. It still works because the game is tuned to that type of gameplay and really, you can achieve that even in Halo. Obviously an elite would have much less HP and much weaker shields with increased enemy numbers so combat was still managable and it wouldn't drag on.

[Zaxx]

引用自 Punished Enclave：

id recommend ruby of blue rebalanced mods for both games for legendary

These look really good, man and he did one for Halo 1 too with a lot of my complaints being addressed there. Thank God for PC modding, truly.