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MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:02pm
Halo: Unplayable Frame Pacing issues above 60fps DO NOT BUY if you own 120hz monitor!
I made this thread to hopefully at least convince some people to stay away from this game. Everyone in the reviews are blinded by nostalgia and can not see that this is the biggest joke of 2019. If you own a 120 or 144 hz monitor.......DO NOT BUY THIS GARBAGE. It is so choppy that nothing you can possibly do will eliminate the problem. There are horrifying frame pacing issues that make you constantly feel like you are playing at 30 fps even while playing at godly frames like 300fps. Halo Combat Evolved runs butter smooth at 120 fps on my pc and that game is from the early 2000s. People all over say that we were warned pre launch that 60 plus fps was "experimental" even though every site I personally looked at stated the game would launch with an option to play 120 or 144 fps smoothly. I never saw a single damn thing regarding it being "experimental." The devs made a lazy ass excuse saying literally saying that smooth, stable 60 plus fps was too hard and too much work. This is some inexcusable ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ that will never EVER be fixed because its 343. I am sick of people telling me that my solution is to cap it at 60 frames on my 120 hz because it doesnt work like that if you even have the slightest standards. 343 you guys can ♥♥♥♥ yourselves out of existence and fade to nothing after this awful awful port. Your game is bleeding its playerbase by the day and it puts a smile on my face which I never thought I would actually say. For years and years I have been waiting for a proper pc overhaul for one of my favorite games of all time....Reach, and now that it is here I cant play because the game is unbearably broken above 60fps. This is going to be the same deal with all the other future MCC releases for PC so I dont even know what to say knowing I wont be able to play any of them due to the same issue as reach has. This is easily my most regretful purchase of 2019 and it is such a shame. If ANYONE found a fix for this travesty, you are a living miracle and PLEASE post it.
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Originally posted by Plaxus:
Let me explain something to you, from a developer to a player, why 60fps is the cap.

There are 3 logic cycles that can be used in games.

Ticked loops, delta loops, and threaded/promis loops.

The console uses what we consider a tick cycle game loop. That loop is usually 60hz.
In a tick cycle game loop, all the logic and graphics are processed for that frame, updated, and then the CPU/GPU pause and wait for that next 60hz rate to begin again. They do this because all the hardware is the same and predictable. If you know how much time you have within a frame, you can produce smooth experiences without faulter(for the most part).

In a delta-loop, the logic and graphics is processed as fast as possible, maxing out resources(atleast one whole thread no matter the device) and the change of the state is multiplied by the time it took to complete that pass of the logic. That time is what we call delta-time. How ever, while the game is running full speed and never rest, the work load changes depending on whats going on in the game. If you go from a low intensive frame to a high intesive frame, you will experience micro stutter or random points of slow down, which is not always perceivable, but when its below your graphics frame rate, it is. In this system, the logic and graphic can rate at completely seperate rates, so the graphics can speed up or slow down and not appear to effect the logic side of things.

A threaded/promised loop is basically the same, but task are split into their own logic loops, run seperattly, and the pool of the work is collected by the master thread.

They ported the game to unreal engine. Now the thing with unity and unreal engine, is that if you choose to use a physics bound collider, you cannot reliably calculate them in any reasonable scope without introducing massive amounts of stutter as the logic cycles through stuff.

To keep physics from taking all the CPU time, its ussualy set aside and works in a fixed step/ticked loop inorder to give time for the actual code. With a tick based system, you can only go slower than the intended speed. Never faster.

If all the collisions and physics bound objects and AI are all running at this locked 60hz rate, and your video frame rate is higher, you will perceive a choppy motion.
You are still getting your 120-144hz of graphic updates, but the physics are only being updated at 60 no matter what, and because you can't use physics in a delta-timed loop reliably, you are kinda stuck with it.

The only option they have is to double the speed of the physics, which means more than double the CPU time for them, and less time for logic operations, resulting in a ♥♥♥♥ experience anyways. Most games with physics (save some notable examples like VR) will always have these physics locked at 60hz as its pretty much the sweet spot.
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Showing 1-15 of 39 comments
BoiledInPilk Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:03pm 
in the settings you can cap it. This has been an issue that 343 has been working to fix.
#1
(ADORA)ble 🌈👊 Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:06pm 
It literally says experimental in options
#2
Sova6 Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:09pm 
Or and here is a crazy thought here but bear with me........... you can cap in to 60 fps in the settings menu and while waiting for a fix
#3
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:11pm 
I know man thats the problem though I cant cap at 60 cuz ive played at 120 fps for so long. It is too jarring for me to look at and as dumb as that sounds to some people, I PROMISE you anyone who also has had exposure to 120 hz monitors will know exactly where im coming from. I just shouldnt have to cap my game at 60 I bought a 144hz for a reason, especially when we are talking about a game from 2011 that the devs have had AGES to work on and somehow still launched the game completely rushed. It is nice to have hope for sure but I have a very very very bad feeling this issue will never be resolved. In my opinion they should take the damn experimental mode out completely because all it is doing is getting people hyped up to play at 144fps just for them to realize to seconds after testing the seeting that they will be forced to lock the game at 60fps for the rest of the time they will be playing. This should have been worked on and working great before they launched the game.
#4
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:13pm 
Im not capping at 60 Sova6 you are the exact kind of person who influences devs to not do ♥♥♥♥ to fix their games and for that you can ♥♥♥♥ yourself.
#5
(ADORA)ble 🌈👊 Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:13pm 
Originally posted by /Pancakeblizzard/:
I know man thats the problem though I cant cap at 60 cuz ive played at 120 fps for so long. It is too jarring for me to look at and as dumb as that sounds to some people, I PROMISE you anyone who also has had exposure to 120 hz monitors will know exactly where im coming from. I just shouldnt have to cap my game at 60 I bought a 144hz for a reason, especially when we are talking about a game from 2011 that the devs have had AGES to work on and somehow still launched the game completely rushed. It is nice to have hope for sure but I have a very very very bad feeling this issue will never be resolved. In my opinion they should take the damn experimental mode out completely because all it is doing is getting people hyped up to play at 144fps just for them to realize to seconds after testing the seeting that they will be forced to lock the game at 60fps for the rest of the time they will be playing. This should have been worked on and working great before they launched the game.
So you have an unrealistic expectations problem and want to blame the game.
#6
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:14pm 
USmovers ya......it says experimental......when you actually get into the game.
#7
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:16pm 
I blame the developers USmovers. And my expectations are not unrealistic buddy, its about to be 2020!!!!! If you cant give me a game in 2019 that plays at 120 fps, then your game is a pile of unfinished garbage. AGAIN, HALO 1 from 2001 plays perfect.....so explain to me why Reach from 2011 is the epitome of a seizure?
#8
chriva Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:19pm 
Halo 1 also suffer from fram phasing issues. (not to mention lower update rate of models). In fact it's even worse than Reach.

Do you watch TV? That is 25 or 30 FPS depending on region lol
#9
(ADORA)ble 🌈👊 Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:20pm 
Oh your expectations are WILDLY unrealistic. Too much of the engine is attached to framerate. The engine was built for ancient hardware.
#10
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:23pm 
Halo 1 doesnt suffer from frame pacing issues. Halo 1 just locks animations to 30fps but you can still play flawlessly at 120fps. You dont even know what frame pacing is. And USmovers it sounds liek you expectations are just too ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ low. Get a monitor that goes past 60fps I mean holy jesus what is this, 2006?
#11
Alkpaz Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:25pm 
I actually downgraded from a 120hz 3D screen because it had issues with some games. I had fun with it for a while playing Just Cause 2 in 3D (primarily bought the monitor for that game) and it worked well on Battlefield 2, but the issues I had running older games was too much, and I decided to downgrade to a normal 60hz monitor, and had not had an issue since. If you want to play old games, go either CRT or 60hz. Hell, I'm even thinking of going back to CRT, since Wolf3D looks freaking fantastic on a CRT.
#12
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:27pm 
You talking PC on CRT TV bro? haha I mean I use a CRT TV for my retro consoles like PS2 and N64.
#13
🪻🧋Sylvie💮🍃 Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:39pm 
343i still needs to fix animation transition.
#14
MidniteMeatBus Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:56pm 
ya but I dont have a problem with the fact that reach animations are locked at 60. The problem is the actual camera movement and how inconsistent and jittery it feels because of the screwed up frame pacing. I cant even believe the problem exists. I cant remember playing a game in the past decade with an issue like this lol.
#15
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Halo: The Master Chief Collection > General Discussions > Topic Details
Date Posted: Dec 24, 2019 @ 6:02pm
Posts: 39

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