is aim assist on controller still as OP as it was on release?

[Evoker]

i enjoyed this game when it came out and played it non stop for a week or so. then realized that everyone had the aim of a csgo pro with aim assist on controller... is this still a huge issue now? i would really like to play halo 3 and not get one shot without a chance by every other player.

[Dr. Raven]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Plato:

Edit: Ya no idea what people are talking about or complaining about. I might feel a slight aim assist at close range, but nothing evident that really jumps out or even 'helps'. They must have downgraded the Aim Assist, as I've read previous Threads/Forums, saying Controller people feel like they barely even have to aim. Well it's clearly changed now, for everyone crying and complaining. Someone else mentioned it to, the controller isn't as 'OP' as people are saying.

However, I have noticed games of being 'one tapped' left and right. I'm guessing these are KBM Players, as you can not get anywhere near that close of reaction time nor accuracy with a Controller. So, have people hacked this game already, or just good KBM Players? Because honestly, I think the KBM Players should have a Higher Advantage if their mouse is properly tuned, just like ANY First Person Shooter.

As far as I know it hasn't really changed. What you get is what we had on launch and what we have now. It's just players always embellish how good it was and they need excuses for why they suck. I legit and everyone I know got like 0.5 kills per deaths starting out on controller, even tho I cleared the campaign on legendary with enough time to get the achievement.


It's just there's a massive disinformation campaign by salty players. You'll find those "aim assist" videos posted here are actually accurate, just lacking context that aim assist doesn't work at certain ranges and if their name isn't red, and you can easily overshoot a target regardless of it, and it's still insanely hard to hit someone trying to dodge, and the game has projectiles so you have to lead your shots most of the time. Etc.


This is why I regularly challenge people saying it's a literal aimbot to actually prove it by streaming them doing well with it, and why 100% of the time they back off and make excuses. Because as you said it actually does very little or next to nothing, except at a very specific range, and even then it doesn't do what they're claiming it does at said ranges.

[Danky King]

imagine needing the game to help you aim lol

[Soren]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ebonic Plague:

imagine needing the game to help you aim lol

So the entire MCC audience then? Or are we not counting bullet magnetism because everyone gets it?

[Redblaze27]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BK201Soren:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Ebonic Plague:

imagine needing the game to help you aim lol

So the entire MCC audience then? Or are we not counting bullet magnetism because everyone gets it?

Needler is obviously overpowered because it aimbots.

[jimmypage]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BK201Soren:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Baconbits:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Baconbits:

PC casuals and people like myself are itching for skillful competition that isn't CS:go or CoD.

Key word being competitive.

Doesn't sound like the Halo series is for you then. My point of contention is aim is not king in Halo, power weapons and map knowledge are first and foremost. Aimbotters will lose 100% of the time with their default weapons versus a half decent player who knows how to use a rocket launcher along with where/when it spawns. TF2 is the same way, I've slapped around obvious aimbotters all the time on that game because game mechanic knowledge is king, not aiming skill.

complete misrepresentation of the importance of aim in a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. map positioning, timing of weapon spawns, knowing spawn points etc. doesn't do you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you cant aim and cant avoid damage, period. aimbot is an absolutely massive advantage in any shooter regardless of skill bracket. it seems you are conflating your superior game knowledge (i'd assume u have 1k+ hours in tf2) to an aimbotter that is more or less a fresh install. of course u can beat an aimbotter that stares at a wall 90% of the time with splash damage, but if an aimbotter had 1k+ hrs as well, u would get rolled. there is zero reason to consider the effect of aim assist between skill brackets, because game knowledge in practice accrues over time individually between game series while aim largely does not.

i have extensive experience in tf2, in competitive leagues, pubs etc. and your characterization of aimbot is unfounded. unless u've only played those catbot aimbots that have like 20 accounts struggling to run on a 2005 vista laptop or some guy that hasnt played more than 10 hours hacking in tf2, ur not winning those fights 95%+ of the time. having auto aim is a HUGE problem regardless of skill bracket. casuals get pounded in pubs by those awful catbot hacks, pubstompers get pounded by anyone running a decent hacking software, comp players get pounded by people who have abused soft aimlock in the past. in the past, a ton of top tf2 players were banned for cheating following that vac wave that released 5+ (?, i dont remember the exact time) years ago that were never even suspected of cheating by other top players. these guys that got banned got so good at hiding their soft aim, walls,etc. that they were undetected for years, but abused the fact that a 3rd party software gave them an advantage.

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

while tf2=/=halo, the gameplay is fairly comparable in a large amount of aspects. map knowledge, positioning, weapon knowledge, spawn timings/location etc are incredibly important to succeeding. tf2 is much faster than halo and is thus much harder to aim in. funnily enough, a lot of new players quit tf2 because they get stomped by players with thousands upon thousands of hours because of these players have better aim, better game knowledge, etc. we may never know exactly why players quit halo at such alarming rates, but id wager that it is for the same reasons as why casuals quit tf2. whereas in tf2, experienced players are incredibly efficient with a m&k without any artificial assistance, in halo, new players are being beaten by a combination of all of these factors in ADDITION to potentially losing to software granted aim assist that you can not out-compete as a human. there is a clear path to get better in other titles (get better with your mouse) as a first step in improving. this is not the case as long as software helps the player aim, it will be the scapegoat for newer players nearly all of the time and cause them to flat out leave. there is no surprise that pro players also have noted the power of aim assist, it provides a distinct advantage in every skill group.

i believe that i am not misconstruing your argument by thinking that you believe knowledge trumps skill always. i disagree, as per aforementioned reasons. within skills brackets (casuals v casuals, pro v pro for example) aim makes a massive difference in engagements. i will concede that once you get to the top levels of gameplay, individual mechanical skill is not nearly as important as team coordination, but that is only ~1% of the population. until then, aim and movement are king within a like skill bracket. mechanical skill (aim/movement) matters less and less as you move up in skill, but this is largely because people need to reach a certain threshold of skill before their knowledge can even become practically applicable.


aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

it seems a core tenant of people advocating for the lack of importance of aim assist assume that the person complaining about it is bad. ok, if that is true, then this leaves two options. either everyone u play is better than u and ur getting beaten by more than aim or everyone u play is of similar skill or worse than u, where aim is the biggest differentiating factor in performance. mcc offers a semi-skill matchmaking system where it attempts to pair you with players of similar skill, so it is nearly impossible that people that complain about aim assist are actually being roflstomped by players where aim assist is making any meaningful in encounters. it is much more likely, even without this matchmaking, that players complaining about aim assist are playing multiple games where they are getting out-aimed nearly all of the time. if it is noticeable and impactful, then it gets complained about. if isnt noticeable, this wouldnt be an issue and people would blame something else. dont be derivative and automatically assume people complaining about aim assist just blow at games in general and cant aim.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

[Define Brackish Water]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

-

aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I think I can break down your argument with three points. First off, so long as you have a red crosshair then you have aim magnetism that helps your shots land. This functions the same on controllers as it does with M&K.

Secondly, new players are mostly hindered by the fact that matchmaking doesn't group players of similar skill together. I appreciate it when it's hard to win a match. I don't mind losing but I feel bad when I curb stomp the opposition. Sometimes it's not me but instead the entire enemy team is scarce because someone else on my team is nuking them. Sometimes I can tell that the other player can't play well at all.

Finally, Aim-assist on controllers does the following:
1. Slow down your crosshair when on an opponent.
2. Move your crosshair towards a moving opponent when your crosshair is really close.
3. Make you flinch towards the enemy if the enemy who shot you is almost in your corsshair.

All 3 of those bullet points help controller players take advantage of the red cursor that helps them hit shots. That stuff helps new players. As someone who used to play Halo a lot I did not like it and wished I could turn that aim-assist off because it prevented me from doing advanced techniques. The controversial question is this: Does that stuff make pro-level controller players have an advantage over pro-level M&K players? I think that a lot of other factors matter more than this controller aim-assist.

Edit: Bulletpoint #2 now clarifies that the enemy has to be moving for the cursor to be pulled towards them.

[Dr. ~ shatter proof ~]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Define Brackish Water:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

-

aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I think I can break down your argument with three points. First off, so long as you have a red crosshair then you have aim magnetism that helps your shots land. This functions the same on controllers as it does with M&K.

Secondly, new players are mostly hindered by the fact that matchmaking doesn't group players of similar skill together. I appreciate it when it's hard to win a match. I don't mind losing but I feel bad when I curb stomp the opposition. Sometimes it's not me but instead the entire enemy team is scarce because someone else on my team is nuking them. Sometimes I can tell that the other player can't play well at all.

Finally, Aim-assist on controllers does the following:
1. Slow down your crosshair when on an opponent.
2. Move your crosshair towards an opponent when your crosshair is really close.
3. Make you flinch towards the enemy if the enemy who shot you is almost in your corsshair.

All 3 of those bullet points help controller players take advantage of the red cursor that helps them hit shots. That stuff helps new players. As someone who used to play Halo a lot I did not like it and wished I could turn that aim-assist off because it prevented me from doing advanced techniques. The controversial question is this: Does that stuff make pro-level controller players have an advantage over pro-level M&K players? I think that a lot of other factors matter more than this controller aim-assist.

Exactly, it's not OP when you reach higher levels / advanced play (in a personal manner), it's super annoying to have the game move your crosshair, used to drive me crazy then I had to adapt my game to account for the mechanic.

[speds👃]

Yes they will never balance controller and MK, just get over it. Out've any game I know, this one has the most op aim assist I've ever seen. You can still do decent though if you have good MK aim tho.

[jimmypage]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Define Brackish Water:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

-

aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I think I can break down your argument with three points. First off, so long as you have a red crosshair then you have aim magnetism that helps your shots land. This functions the same on controllers as it does with M&K.

Secondly, new players are mostly hindered by the fact that matchmaking doesn't group players of similar skill together. I appreciate it when it's hard to win a match. I don't mind losing but I feel bad when I curb stomp the opposition. Sometimes it's not me but instead the entire enemy team is scarce because someone else on my team is nuking them. Sometimes I can tell that the other player can't play well at all.

Finally, Aim-assist on controllers does the following:
1. Slow down your crosshair when on an opponent.
2. Move your crosshair towards an opponent when your crosshair is really close.
3. Make you flinch towards the enemy if the enemy who shot you is almost in your corsshair.

All 3 of those bullet points help controller players take advantage of the red cursor that helps them hit shots. That stuff helps new players. As someone who used to play Halo a lot I did not like it and wished I could turn that aim-assist off because it prevented me from doing advanced techniques. The controversial question is this: Does that stuff make pro-level controller players have an advantage over pro-level M&K players? I think that a lot of other factors matter more than this controller aim-assist.

i largely omitted the exact workings of aim assist because i think these points are generally known among those aware of these debates. i attempted to shed a different light upon the subject, as specificity is key.

aim is a largely ambiguous topic but it can be better modeled by coarse and fine control. as with learning anything, the coarse controls are super easy to pick up with very limited exposure but fine controls are not. anyone can run, not everyone can run over 20 mph. everyone can 'play' guitar, not everyone can create defining riffs. everyone can aim in the general direction of a player, not everyone can track a player capable of jumping, strafing, etc for well over a second. the controller's assist does not aid the player in coarse control (id argue it hampers this ability noticeably), but largely does all of the fine control for the player. essentially, it removes the nuance from aim that players would need to dedicate thousands of hours to commit to muscle memory to precisely aim and track exactly how a player is moving and forces the player to instead focus on practicing the much less fine-tuned coarse aim to compete. m&k is largely the opposite, its difficult to track a player's nuanced movement over time but very easy to vaguely look at a player.

basically, controller does much of the fine tuning for the player while m&k does not, so at equivalent levels of play where aim is important, controller aim assist offers players the ability to do much of the heavy lifting whilst m&k does not. again, obtaining fine control is difficult, coarse control is not. it is no surprise people well versed in pc gaming (10k+ hrs) and newbies alike have pointed issue at the aim assist controller grants a potential player.

[Wahops]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από A Son of a Shepard:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από 14799518:

so basically its still completely broken, and the controller players are still laughing about how fair it is?

i just dont understand whos idea it was to make a pc port and then coddle the console players... its a pc port supposed to be played by pc players. if u want to use a controller go play on console

dude seriously grow up, its not that big of an issue

this is why no one takes any of your aim assist crybabies seriously bc
you resort to elitism as defense and then it becomes obvious of the real reality

+1

[Define Brackish Water]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Define Brackish Water:

so long as you have a red crosshair then you have aim magnetism that helps your shots land. This functions the same on controllers as it does with M&K.

basically, controller does much of the fine tuning for the player while m&k does not, so at equivalent levels of play where aim is important, controller aim assist offers players the ability to do much of the heavy lifting whilst m&k does not. again, obtaining fine control is difficult, coarse control is not. it is no surprise people well versed in pc gaming (10k+ hrs) and newbies alike have pointed issue at the aim assist controller grants a potential player.

I read the whole post I'm only reducing the wall of text.

Because Halo simplifies aiming it makes the other elements of the game have more importance. I don't play CS 1.6, CS:S, or CS:GO (anymore) because I do not have fun when the most valuable thing is quick perfect headshots. In Halo- positioning, planning, strategizing, power weapons, and movement will determine the outcome of a battle more than an aim-bot would. Sometimes just firing first or having two people attack the same target will win a fight.

I played with a controller for years. If crossplay was a thing when I was younger I would have had a lot of fun turning off all aim-assist and trying to beat M&K players. Halo didn't have it as an option but afterwards I turned off aim-assist in every game that I could. Instead sometimes I played online against other players that had aim-assist while I didn't.

If your opponent has perfect aim then you play differently so as to reduce that disadvantage. That's true on consoles when a dude is wrecking you and it's true on PC when someone's a professional Counter-Strike player.

On a personal note you're dead wrong that controller aim-assist does much of the work. It raises the skill floor and makes the skill ceiling awkward. M&K is so much better because it makes advanced techniques easier and giving that advantage to M&K will just mess with their aim.

[Anbu Playboy †]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Papa Ice 🚾:

Yes they will never balance controller and MK, just get over it. Out've any game I know, this one has the most op aim assist I've ever seen. You can still do decent though if you have good MK aim tho.

That's big cap and super over dramatic. Destiny lol

[Dr. Raven]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από BK201Soren:

Doesn't sound like the Halo series is for you then. My point of contention is aim is not king in Halo, power weapons and map knowledge are first and foremost. Aimbotters will lose 100% of the time with their default weapons versus a half decent player who knows how to use a rocket launcher along with where/when it spawns. TF2 is the same way, I've slapped around obvious aimbotters all the time on that game because game mechanic knowledge is king, not aiming skill.

complete misrepresentation of the importance of aim in a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. map positioning, timing of weapon spawns, knowing spawn points etc. doesn't do you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you cant aim and cant avoid damage, period. aimbot is an absolutely massive advantage in any shooter regardless of skill bracket. it seems you are conflating your superior game knowledge (i'd assume u have 1k+ hours in tf2) to an aimbotter that is more or less a fresh install. of course u can beat an aimbotter that stares at a wall 90% of the time with splash damage, but if an aimbotter had 1k+ hrs as well, u would get rolled. there is zero reason to consider the effect of aim assist between skill brackets, because game knowledge in practice accrues over time individually between game series while aim largely does not.

i have extensive experience in tf2, in competitive leagues, pubs etc. and your characterization of aimbot is unfounded. unless u've only played those catbot aimbots that have like 20 accounts struggling to run on a 2005 vista laptop or some guy that hasnt played more than 10 hours hacking in tf2, ur not winning those fights 95%+ of the time. having auto aim is a HUGE problem regardless of skill bracket. casuals get pounded in pubs by those awful catbot hacks, pubstompers get pounded by anyone running a decent hacking software, comp players get pounded by people who have abused soft aimlock in the past. in the past, a ton of top tf2 players were banned for cheating following that vac wave that released 5+ (?, i dont remember the exact time) years ago that were never even suspected of cheating by other top players. these guys that got banned got so good at hiding their soft aim, walls,etc. that they were undetected for years, but abused the fact that a 3rd party software gave them an advantage.

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

while tf2=/=halo, the gameplay is fairly comparable in a large amount of aspects. map knowledge, positioning, weapon knowledge, spawn timings/location etc are incredibly important to succeeding. tf2 is much faster than halo and is thus much harder to aim in. funnily enough, a lot of new players quit tf2 because they get stomped by players with thousands upon thousands of hours because of these players have better aim, better game knowledge, etc. we may never know exactly why players quit halo at such alarming rates, but id wager that it is for the same reasons as why casuals quit tf2. whereas in tf2, experienced players are incredibly efficient with a m&k without any artificial assistance, in halo, new players are being beaten by a combination of all of these factors in ADDITION to potentially losing to software granted aim assist that you can not out-compete as a human. there is a clear path to get better in other titles (get better with your mouse) as a first step in improving. this is not the case as long as software helps the player aim, it will be the scapegoat for newer players nearly all of the time and cause them to flat out leave. there is no surprise that pro players also have noted the power of aim assist, it provides a distinct advantage in every skill group.

i believe that i am not misconstruing your argument by thinking that you believe knowledge trumps skill always. i disagree, as per aforementioned reasons. within skills brackets (casuals v casuals, pro v pro for example) aim makes a massive difference in engagements. i will concede that once you get to the top levels of gameplay, individual mechanical skill is not nearly as important as team coordination, but that is only ~1% of the population. until then, aim and movement are king within a like skill bracket. mechanical skill (aim/movement) matters less and less as you move up in skill, but this is largely because people need to reach a certain threshold of skill before their knowledge can even become practically applicable.


aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

it seems a core tenant of people advocating for the lack of importance of aim assist assume that the person complaining about it is bad. ok, if that is true, then this leaves two options. either everyone u play is better than u and ur getting beaten by more than aim or everyone u play is of similar skill or worse than u, where aim is the biggest differentiating factor in performance. mcc offers a semi-skill matchmaking system where it attempts to pair you with players of similar skill, so it is nearly impossible that people that complain about aim assist are actually being roflstomped by players where aim assist is making any meaningful in encounters. it is much more likely, even without this matchmaking, that players complaining about aim assist are playing multiple games where they are getting out-aimed nearly all of the time. if it is noticeable and impactful, then it gets complained about. if isnt noticeable, this wouldnt be an issue and people would blame something else. dont be derivative and automatically assume people complaining about aim assist just blow at games in general and cant aim.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I ran across only one aimbot on Halo so far, well that I noticed. There's always the chance that people cheat and only do neutral. Only reason he was noticeable as an aimbot is because he was playing on a scorpion and using a sniper majority of the match, admittedly both are objectively worse on controller, same with the rocket launcher. I believe that was his point.


Halo is the kind of game where even if you have an aimbot, you simply can't win a 2v1 with your DMR or default weapons, this is a fact of the game and how it's always functioned. And for power weapons everyone contests you for them, with allies spawning closer to them than you usually. When you meet enemies on the front lines it's rarely just one. You could cheat on Halo and still go massively negative every match, especially if you're playing against an actual team. Because the time to kill is slow even if you're hitting every shot, it's almost impossible to dodge and fairly easy for the majority of players even on mouse and keyboard to hit someone moving 1/20 of a mile per an hour. That is when ping isn't a factor and you don't have to lead shots.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Define Brackish Water:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

in particular, these players used silent/soft aim that basically required the user to aim most of the way to their target, but the software could be toggled to basically do all of the fine, intricate aiming (coincidentally, the hardest part of aiming) for the player. sound familiar? tf2 players have been banned for using far less than what controller assist offers.

-

aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not. m&k helps the player look in the general direction of someone else much more easily that a controller player, but this is largely arbitrary as halo features slow movement speed with long ttk. controller has a distinct advantage of helping the player with fine aiming, the hard part of aiming, which is why this is such a contentious issue, though it seems many have missed the point. halo features map designed with controller play in mind i.e. the vast, vast majority of maps are designed with aim assist in mind i.e. close to mid range engagements where aim assist is beenficial. do the math yourself, come to your own conclusions. m&k keyboard helps with rapid target acquisition but controller players have a distinct advantage as soon as the target has been acquired.

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I think I can break down your argument with three points. First off, so long as you have a red crosshair then you have aim magnetism that helps your shots land. This functions the same on controllers as it does with M&K.

Secondly, new players are mostly hindered by the fact that matchmaking doesn't group players of similar skill together. I appreciate it when it's hard to win a match. I don't mind losing but I feel bad when I curb stomp the opposition. Sometimes it's not me but instead the entire enemy team is scarce because someone else on my team is nuking them. Sometimes I can tell that the other player can't play well at all.

Finally, Aim-assist on controllers does the following:
1. Slow down your crosshair when on an opponent.
2. Move your crosshair towards a moving opponent when your crosshair is really close.
3. Make you flinch towards the enemy if the enemy who shot you is almost in your corsshair.

All 3 of those bullet points help controller players take advantage of the red cursor that helps them hit shots. That stuff helps new players. As someone who used to play Halo a lot I did not like it and wished I could turn that aim-assist off because it prevented me from doing advanced techniques. The controversial question is this: Does that stuff make pro-level controller players have an advantage over pro-level M&K players? I think that a lot of other factors matter more than this controller aim-assist.

Edit: Bulletpoint #2 now clarifies that the enemy has to be moving for the cursor to be pulled towards them.

Did they change how number 3 functions? I tested that out with a friend and I was getting pulled towards an enemy via flinching when shot while using a mouse and keyboard. I thought at the very least they'd give players an option to not have, not entirely remove it from keyboard and mouse.


Only reason I can see for them removing it would be that anything messing with your aim on a mouse generally doesn't seem to help and only confuses players.

[Soren]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

complete misrepresentation of the importance of aim in a FIRST PERSON SHOOTER. map positioning, timing of weapon spawns, knowing spawn points etc. doesn't do you ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ if you cant aim and cant avoid damage, period. aimbot is an absolutely massive advantage in any shooter regardless of skill bracket

If you can't hit anything, sure aim is important at that point. But you don't need to be a surgeon to hit someone with a rocket launcher or an energy sword. Heck, rocket launchers are probably the easiest thing to use in any FPS game ever assuming the splash is decent. And rocket launchers spawn on most maps as far as I know.

Too quote or paraphrase the professional player ImMarskman while he was playing Modern Warfare 2019 "aim is not the most important thing in this game, it's game knowledge". He said that about CoD... about CoD, a game with very little damage trading and low TTK. The thing about Halo is that it is a game with damage trading being heavier than most other shooters. Meaning some fights are literally unwinnable without power items. This is why game knowledge is irrefutably so important. When the enemy team has you locked down with their geass rifle warthog for example, that's gg, game is over on Halo 3 BTB. They've won the game.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

. it seems you are conflating your superior game knowledge (i'd assume u have 1k+ hours in tf2) to an aimbotter that is more or less a fresh install. of course u can beat an aimbotter that stares at a wall 90% of the time with splash damage, but if an aimbotter had 1k+ hrs as well, u would get rolled. there is zero reason to consider the effect of aim assist between skill brackets, because game knowledge in practice accrues over time individually between game series while aim largely does not.

Yes and no. You have to have more game knowledge than the cheater to beat him. But him being a noobie boobie isn't necessary. I have thousands of hours in TF2. And you know what I encountered a lot during that time back when people didn't have games hid by default on their profile? Lots of cheaters with 2k+ hours.

I had no problem slapping around most of the best cheaters around back then. You get used to dealing with aimbotters when you face off against literally hundreds of them. And a cheater with 2k+ hours doesn't necessarily have enough experience dealing with players like me who are essentially counter aimbot players. I have hundreds of hours of experience dealing with cheaters, and those cheaters have almost 0 hours dealing with people like me. In a sense, I have more game knowledge than them in this scenario. I have experience counter playing them, and they have no experience counter playing meThere are plenty of crit specific counters in the game for example. And that counters the cheaters who rely on crits (sniper).

Admittedly, cheaters with no game knowledge are the most fun to slap down on TF2. Because you don't just win by a landslide, you destroy them and dominate them so hard they rage quit the game and uninstall it forever.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

i have extensive experience in tf2, in competitive leagues, pubs etc. and your characterization of aimbot is unfounded. unless u've only played those catbot aimbots that have like 20 accounts struggling to run on a 2005 vista laptop or some guy that hasnt played more than 10 hours hacking in tf2, ur not winning those fights 95%+ of the time. having auto aim is a HUGE problem regardless of skill bracket. casuals get pounded in pubs by those awful catbot hacks, pubstompers get pounded by anyone running a decent hacking software,

They aren't much of pubstompers if they get destroyed by simple rage cheaters. They are more like pubstomping wannabes. I've ran across a few pubstompers like myself who were more than capable of countering cheaters. Doctor Strangelove and Devcatimite come to mind. I ran across those guys several times a year when playing pubs.

Also, the term "catbot aimbot" is not something I've heard used on the TF2 forums or in-game. I've heard people say rage cheater, aimbot, spinbot, wall hacker, trigger bot, even p-aimbot (which p-aimbots don't exist), but never catbot. Funny part, the time I heard p-aimbot was when playing with Dr.Raven and the aimbotter he was dominating accused him of using the p-aimbot just because he got dommed by Raven. It's rich when you see a cheater accuse you of cheating. Catbot is probably something newer to TF2 I imagine, my experiences were largely from 2012 to 2018 I believe, not with recent TF2. Valve's changes to pub servers largely benefited cheaters (they started playing in stacks and that's impossible to deal with), so I stopped playing after that.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

comp players get pounded by people who have abused soft aimlock in the past. in the past, a ton of top tf2 players were banned for cheating following that vac wave that released 5+ (?, i dont remember the exact time) years ago that were never even suspected of cheating by other top players. these guys that got banned got so good at hiding their soft aim, walls,etc. that they were undetected for years, but abused the fact that a 3rd party software gave them an advantage.

Comp is more balanced and restrictive. For that reason it's harder to deal with cheaters. Pubs are not balanced and thus have many many more tools to deal with cheaters. Understanding why something is banned and over-powered while cheaters do not furthers the gap in game knowledge between the two of you.

Back to Halo 3, you take away rocket launchers, shotguns, energy swords, and gravity hammers and all the other easy to use power items and then even I'd say dealing with someone better at aiming then you would be harder on Halo. Certainly, but those weapons always seem to exist (at least at higher player count modes).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

while tf2=/=halo, the gameplay is fairly comparable in a large amount of aspects. map knowledge, positioning, weapon knowledge, spawn timings/location etc are incredibly important to succeeding. tf2 is much faster than halo and is thus much harder to aim in.

Halo definitely has more damage trading (and is more comparable to Apex Legends or Rogue Company in that regard). This is all the more so for bolstering the argument of situations sometimes being won based on tools or numbers possessed rather than aim. The moment you are caught in an open field and a sniper now peaks that field, the best aim in the world probably won't stop them from killing you. It's the same in a 2v1. Which is why game knowledge is more important than aim. Because fights are often decided before they even begin in Halo.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

funnily enough, a lot of new players quit tf2 because they get stomped by players with thousands upon thousands of hours because of these players have better aim, better game knowledge, etc. we may never know exactly why players quit halo at such alarming rates, but id wager that it is for the same reasons as why casuals quit tf2.

From my perspective, I'd run across a cheater/aimbotter once every hour on average for TF2 (so it's no joke to say I've encountered in the fourth digits of cheaters for that game in my lifetime). I always considered that to be the reason rather than pubstomping for consumer dissatisfaction. The forums were always full of 3 things. The first being people complaining about pyro being OP (despite pyro already being a weak class both competitively and casually), the second being people complaining about aimbotters, and the third being people complaining about getting scammed out of their expensive hats.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

whereas in tf2, experienced players are incredibly efficient with a m&k without any artificial assistance, in halo, new players are being beaten by a combination of all of these factors in ADDITION to potentially losing to software granted aim assist that you can not out-compete as a human. there is a clear path to get better in other titles (get better with your mouse) as a first step in improving. this is not the case as long as software helps the player aim, it will be the scapegoat for newer players nearly all of the time and cause them to flat out leave. there is no surprise that pro players also have noted the power of aim assist, it provides a distinct advantage in every skill group.

Did we both play the same TF2? You aren't talking about Titan Fall 2 are you? Because soldier was never hard to use. He has a high skill floor, but even Helen Keller could hit people with those rockets at point blank, and unlike pyro he was actually a good class. People complained about pyro all the time because he was too good to use comparable to skill (despite the class being quite garbage). Engineer ain't much better off for yielding high results without aim being a driving factor.

And you know, I've been accused of aimbotting in that game more times than I can count. And how is me being accused of aimbotting any different than players wildly accusing others of using controller aim assist in Halo either? I've seen people randomly accuse the top scorer of using a controller when he was obviously using a mouse (obvious to people with a brain anyway). It's all a defacto response to deny reality of their loss or them being a bad player. Removing aim assist on controllers isn't going to stop people from making up excuses and using baseless accusations to deny reality. It happens everywhere. Admittedly, it doesn't happen so much on consoles, but even on consoles I've been accused of cheating by salty parties just because I had a really good game.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

i believe that i am not misconstruing your argument by thinking that you believe knowledge trumps skill always. i disagree, as per aforementioned reasons. within skills brackets (casuals v casuals, pro v pro for example) aim makes a massive difference in engagements.

Eh, I mean, casuals v casuals have roughly the same amount of game knowledge. Of course when game knowledge is relatively equal the one with better aim then wins. But game knowledge beats aim when the two are vastly different. If you can only be good at one, game knowledge is the better one to be good at in Halo. You can go from bottom feeder to top scorer without amazing aim or anything. Players like Summit G1 are proof of this. He fed a lot in Halo Reach when that game first came out, and he''s a high tier keyboard and mouse player who can aim well, even in Halo. He blamed controller players, but the fact of the matter is he was getting out played constantly since he was new, not out aimed.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

i will concede that once you get to the top levels of gameplay, individual mechanical skill is not nearly as important as team coordination, but that is only ~1% of the population. until then, aim and movement are king within a like skill bracket. mechanical skill (aim/movement) matters less and less as you move up in skill, but this is largely because people need to reach a certain threshold of skill before their knowledge can even become practically applicable.

At the end of the day, I'm not really talking about the highest levels of play for Halo specifically. If people want aim assist removed from competitive, who am I to judge? People want it out of casual though. What is quite common in casual play for all the Halo games is too see power weapons go largely ignored on the map. It's too see most of your team ignoring power vehicles like the warthog (it's super powerful in Halo 3 if the driver knows what they are doing).

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

aiming in the general direction of someone is easy. consistently tracking someone in a game with long ttk is not when it is up to the player to account for things like strafing is not.

Too be fair, the hitreg in Halo 3 right now makes this all a moot point. If anything, it's far more likely a culprit for people quitting (that and the 2006 obsolete matchmaking that makes lobbies not persist and mid-joining impossible).

I don't want to play Halo 3 right now either. People with flawless pings can 4 shot beam me with a BR, and with my 100 ping I can dump my entire clip into someone with the hitreg sometimes saying their shield hasn't gone down yet. I go still go 2.0 easy by just grabbing the rocket launcher/shotgun constantly, but sometimes your allies do go for the power weapons and you are hung out to dry. If I use a controller, that isn't going to suddenly make the BR useful for me.

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από jimmy page: by jimmy page:

tl/dr: controller aim assist is not a game breaking feature between skill brackets but is most definitely so within each bracket. it most definitely negatively affects the newest players disproportionately as aim is the biggest and most obvious factor in performance in casual play. being at an artificial disadvantage immediately dissuades new players from attempting to learn a game and angers and dissuades experienced players from improving and continuing to play.

I don't really see it. Are you talking about competitive play or something?

Skill levels vary wildly enough in casual play. Teams get roflstomped here and there. And people of various skill brackets do exist together (it's not uncommon to get one team full of trash players). If people quit from getting stomped, it isn't because they were stomped by controller players using default weapons. The top scorers and match dominations from my experiences are always coming from people with power weapons/vehicles. BRs do squat diddly against the scorpion, geass rifle warthog, warthogs, wraith, energy sword at close range, rocket launcher, a sniper (mouse and keyboard pro only), and other power stuff. The BR especially can't do anything if your hitreg/ping is garbage because 343 hasn't fixed the hitreg issue yet.

[KingOneDa]

Input Based MM is added

Topic End