[MAJOR SPOILERS] Dreamflower Ending thoughts

[Pepsu]

I just finishing the game and saw every ending I think either one of 3 outcomes happend in this ending after drinking the potion.

1st - The potion somehow saved us from the explosion which is most unlikely but possible.

2nd - The explosion killed us but it gave us a dream in which we were given a bittersweet ending where we live happly with Calia/Jespar

3th - The potion moved us to a more favorable reality after our "death" in which the best possible outcome was possible to get which was us surviving the explosion and Calia going back to save us where we managed to get bittersweet ending which means Prophet from original reality died but we managed to experience outcome of Prophet from another reality because of the potion which is technically still a dream but a real one.

The 3th outcome is mine favorite because it reminds me of that one scene from Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows when Harry and Dumbledore have a converastion at King's Cross Station in which Harry asks Dumbledore: "Is this all real? or is it just happening inside my head" and Dumbledore anwsers "Of course it's happening inside your head Harry! But why does that mean it isn't real?"

Honestly I think its the most confusing ending of them all and the whole point of it is how we interpret it which is why it does not give us a definitive anwser. There is also a scene where we see corspe burning in a crib at our old house which could symbolize the Prophet bringing closure to his trauma when the corspes are burning or it could mean that cleansing did not birth another High One. The ending in which we leave the Enderal to live in the Sky with our LI as a God is also really great but it also leaves a lot to interpretation.

What a great game, mannn.

[Sentinel Lyons]

For a more surface level interpretation, it is possible that there is a 33.3% chance that the Dreamflower Ending is fake. We can arrive at this conclusion by going on the logic of the "Sea of Eventualities" within the game. There are 3 major possibilities for the elixir:

• Yuslan is correct and the Dreamflower puts the user into a permanent catatonic state, thus rendering all events after consuming to be simulated rather than real.
  
• Yero is correct and the Dreamflower connects the consumer to the Sea of Eventualities directly and allows them to control their fate by getting the best outcome possible.
  
• Both are incorrect and the Dreamflower does something completely different that we will never be able to discover.

This means there is a 33.3% chance that Yuslan is correct, but that is only if we choose to omit external factors. I personally believe that the Dreamflower Ending is real, however. Why? Let me give a quick analysis.

Yuslan has reason to lie to the player. If you have beaten the game, then you know that Yuslan has been a detriment to the main cast for two major reasons: he has the Red Madness and has wanted revenge on Tealor from the moment that you first met him. People under the Red Madness are implied to be under possession by the High Ones. Whether this possession works by influencing Yuslan's mind to make him sympathetic to the High Ones or if he is being directly controlled by a High One is irrelevant — it makes him an unreliable ally. Additionally, if the Dreamflower truly gives the player character a trump card, the High Ones will do everything they can to manipulate them into giving it up.

Consuming the Dreamflower Elixir has no effect on the majority of the story. If you were to drink the Dreamflower elixir immediately after gaining access to it, you would at the very least have quite a bit of main quest remaining. Oddly enough, the Prophet still has the exact same struggles and road bumps along the way. By Yuslan and Yero's logic, in this "dream" timeline, wouldn't the Beacon have finished construction thus leading to the High Ones' destruction? In Yuslan's theory, the Prophet should be sleeping and dreaming the best timeline. In Yero's theory, the Prophet should be shifting eventualities for the best timeline. Instead, no matter when the elixir is consumed, the only difference is surviving the blast and ending up in Qyra.

I believe that of the two, Yero probably had findings that were closer to the truth, albeit unfinished and didn't make complete sense. The Dreamflower most likely could have something to do with the Sea of Eventualities, but also has other effects that bolster an individual's fortitude and vitality (as discussed in "The Dreamflower: An Essay") that allowed the Prophet to survive the blast at the end of the game.

[lilac]

Originally posted by Sentinel Lyons:

Consuming the Dreamflower Elixir has no effect on the majority of the story. If you were to drink the Dreamflower elixir immediately after gaining access to it, you would at the very least have quite a bit of main quest remaining. Oddly enough, the Prophet still has the exact same struggles and road bumps along the way. By Yuslan and Yero's logic, in this "dream" timeline, wouldn't the Beacon have finished construction thus leading to the High Ones' destruction? In Yuslan's theory, the Prophet should be sleeping and dreaming the best timeline. In Yero's theory, the Prophet should be shifting eventualities for the best timeline. Instead, no matter when the elixir is consumed, the only difference is surviving the blast and ending up in Qyra.

well this is probably just more of a gameplay limitation than anything else, i think its implied that you drink the elixir at the end of the game regardless of when you actually do it in game

[Sentinel Lyons]

Originally posted by sasha:

well this is probably just more of a gameplay limitation than anything else, i think its implied that you drink the elixir at the end of the game regardless of when you actually do it in game

Sure, you could attribute the main quest not changing to the limitations of the Creation Engine.

I do not think it is plausible that the game implies you to only drink the Dreamflower Elixir at the end of the game no matter when you actually chose to drink it, however. If this were the case, I feel as though it would have made more sense for SureAI to give the player a prompt before attacking the Beacon to drink the Dreamflower Elixir or not. Instead, they give you agency and allow you to drink it at any point.

[lilac]

Originally posted by Sentinel Lyons:

If this were the case, I feel as though it would have made more sense for SureAI to give the player a prompt before attacking the Beacon to drink the Dreamflower Elixir or not. Instead, they give you agency and allow you to drink it at any point.

well its supposed to be a secret ending so i dont think they would make it that obvious for multiple reasons. but they let you drink it at any time to actually give players a chance to discover that ending on their own instead of only allowing you to drink it after a specific time, which most players would not check/realize when that time is

[Sentinel Lyons]

Originally posted by sasha:

well its supposed to be a secret ending so i dont think they would make it that obvious for multiple reasons. but they let you drink it at any time to actually give players a chance to discover that ending on their own instead of only allowing you to drink it after a specific time, which most players would not check/realize when that time is

Regardless of debating this fact, it still does not take away from the fact that the scholarly essay we can read in game from an unnamed Magister describes similar effects from the Dreamflower that the Prophet experiences in the hidden ending. Heightened vitality is described as happening to the Alyani, the natives of Arazeal, after consuming Dreamflowers.

"Archeological findings showed that there were some warriors of the Alyani who had a high vitality even in old age. That the dreamflower can't be found on Enderal anymore is thus quite regrettable: Its alchemical value appears to be tremendous" (Unnamed Magister, "The Dreamflower: An Essay").

This information becomes especially interesting as we consider the last bit of information. Why exactly were the Alyani able to experience these miraculous effects of the Dreamflower, yet none were ever documented to have fallen into an eternal slumber? The only logical conclusions that I can theorize are:

• The unnamed Magister is correct, and the Dreamflower gives the consumer seemingly permanent heightened vitality. Gaining similar heightened vitality to the Alyani who benefited from the Dreamflower's effects, the Prophet survives the blast of the Beacon as a result of consuming the elixir.
  
• Yero is correct, and his further research on the Dreamflower's effects as documented by the unnamed Magister (which Yero describes as a misconception) tells us that the consumer of the Dreamflower shifts realities to achieve a better outcome by navigating the Sea of Eventualities. This works for both the historical Alyani people and the Prophet's case. The Alyani that consumed Dreamflowers were all versions of themselves that were "peak" due to benefiting from the manipulation of the Sea of Eventualities. The Prophet also uses this advantage to manipulate their reality into an eventuality where they survive the blast of the Beacon.

Regardless of which conclusion is true, neither point to the Dreamflower Ending being a dream, a simulation, or a fabrication of reality like Yuslan tells the Prophet. Even in the context of Yero's theory, the Prophet is still in a "real" and tangible location of time and space after the Dreamflower Ending — just not their original eventuality.

[Fitness Lauch]

Originally posted by Sentinel Lyons:

For a more surface level interpretation, it is possible that there is a 33.3% chance that the Dreamflower Ending is fake. We can arrive at this conclusion by going on the logic of the "Sea of Eventualities" within the game. There are 3 major possibilities for the elixir:

• Yuslan is correct and the Dreamflower puts the user into a permanent catatonic state, thus rendering all events after consuming to be simulated rather than real.
  
• Yero is correct and the Dreamflower connects the consumer to the Sea of Eventualities directly and allows them to control their fate by getting the best outcome possible.
  
• Both are incorrect and the Dreamflower does something completely different that we will never be able to discover.

This means there is a 33.3% chance that Yuslan is correct, but that is only if we choose to omit external factors. I personally believe that the Dreamflower Ending is real, however. Why? Let me give a quick analysis.

Yuslan has reason to lie to the player. If you have beaten the game, then you know that Yuslan has been a detriment to the main cast for two major reasons: he has the Red Madness and has wanted revenge on Tealor from the moment that you first met him. People under the Red Madness are implied to be under possession by the High Ones. Whether this possession works by influencing Yuslan's mind to make him sympathetic to the High Ones or if he is being directly controlled by a High One is irrelevant — it makes him an unreliable ally. Additionally, if the Dreamflower truly gives the player character a trump card, the High Ones will do everything they can to manipulate them into giving it up.

Consuming the Dreamflower Elixir has no effect on the majority of the story. If you were to drink the Dreamflower elixir immediately after gaining access to it, you would at the very least have quite a bit of main quest remaining. Oddly enough, the Prophet still has the exact same struggles and road bumps along the way. By Yuslan and Yero's logic, in this "dream" timeline, wouldn't the Beacon have finished construction thus leading to the High Ones' destruction? In Yuslan's theory, the Prophet should be sleeping and dreaming the best timeline. In Yero's theory, the Prophet should be shifting eventualities for the best timeline. Instead, no matter when the elixir is consumed, the only difference is surviving the blast and ending up in Qyra.

I believe that of the two, Yero probably had findings that were closer to the truth, albeit unfinished and didn't make complete sense. The Dreamflower most likely could have something to do with the Sea of Eventualities, but also has other effects that bolster an individual's fortitude and vitality (as discussed in "The Dreamflower: An Essay") that allowed the Prophet to survive the blast at the end of the game.

I did interpret it similarily but wouldn't say that all three possibilities are equally likely to happen. I think that the interpretion boils down to that there exist similar eventualities in which every one of these scenarios exist.

I personally do think that the last scenario is indeed the most likely one, that both Yuslan and Yero are wrong (both went totally crazy as well so they're both not very reliable sources). That's because their theories aren't reflected by the game much.

Yeros theory is that it will put us into the best eventuality for our character but that's obviously not the case. Nothing really changes except for one ending, everything before that is still an outright disaster. Maybe it does put us into another eventuality but it certainly doesn't choose the best one, so at best his theory is half true.

Yuslans theory is even worse because it suffers from the same argument as above - he claims that it'll put you into a perfect dream. But again, nothing really changes from taking the elixir, it'd be more like a nightmare instead of perfect dream. So maybe it does put you into a dream but certainly not into a good one.
Furthermore Yuslan has very strong reason to lie about the elixir while Yero has less reasons to do so (even tho Yero is also very unreliable). And his argumentation doesn't make much sense anyways, how would you even know that the person who took the elixir is dreaming, let alone know what they're dreaming? He could've just gone with it'll just put you into a deadly coma and that would be more believable than his "trust me bro" nonsense.

I do think that there are eventualities in which Yeros version is correct and some in which Yuslan is correct but for our character we can exclude these, at least to some extend (like saying that they're only half correct at best).

Imo the theory which makes the most sense is that the elixir just makes you stronger, as described in that book and that makes you survive the explosion. Also still a bit unbelievable but maybe you get some kind of divine intervention which allows you to survive it if you're enhanced by the elixir which you wouldn't without it...

[Гул времени]

This thread is for smart guys, vvhich i am not, but i think that this potion gives the consumer an opportunity and povvers to live to their dream. Some sort of cure to fleshlessness, as it vvas implied that fleshless are created from people vvho has some unachivied goals or strong dreams and desires. Judging by a handful of protagonist's family nightmares, their dream vvas to find a family or something that has to do vvith it. The game in every ending leaves the MC vvith a companion, vvhether they are beloved or not, vve can interpret them as some kind of family. And vvhat bothers and tries to ruin such relationship, vvhat is an obstacle? The High ones and the Beacon. So, the dreamflovver elixir gives the prophet a possibility to survive the explosion and maybe it's effects vvill vvork until the high ones defeat(unlikely).

The part about the vvariors of Alyani could mean they had high vitality for vvhatever purposes they needed or to do some great feats and deeds(vvhich i think is common amongst such folk).

I also think that the potion could mess vvith alternate realities and even the coma thing, but didnt because of the veiled vvoman's intervention.

UPD: I think that such ending is the most canon and logical, at least from MC's development, and game's plot standpoint. I heavily theorize that the veiled vvoman made the prophet human once again, probably because of tvvo facts:
1. The High ones could mess vvith their body and mind easier if they vvere fleshless.
2. Fleshless are hyperbolized, their arrogancy and similar traits might be embellished, vvhich can possibly keep them from doing the best thing.

So, after such 'resurrection' the protagonist can do tvvo things(assuming they don't knovv about the dreamflovver's effects): Flee or Destroy the Beacon. The first ending i vvould consider the vvorst, as the High ones are once again right - humans fall because of their ego, and the MC probably dies from old age(if the vvoman truly made them human). The second one is good, but not the best in such situation. The one vvho knovvs so much and have seen so much vvould be more helpful alive!

The potion ending doesn't even remove the important part from the catharsis ending vvhich is self-sacrificing for others. And also, the destruction of the beacon could really mark the rebirth, the resurrection of the prophet, as Calia/Jespar says about them sensing that the prophet is alive and coming back, vvhich, vvell, might be more philosophical, but still means something, hinting maybe.

P.S Sorry for the VV, the needed key is torn avvay.