calling all lycanthrope experts (werewolf/alchemy for dummies please)

[Bomjus]

so i never once did alchemy in Skyrim cause i usually went mage and if i wanted to, vampirism. with no vampirism in enderal, i'm thinking of dabbling in lycanthrope

i'm totally lost with the intricacies of the lycanthrope tree. where do i buy wolf blood recipes? is the vagrant tree super important? do i actually need to buy the recipes to use them? or can i just be a google gamer, look up the recipe, and make the potion?

is there any lycanthrope specific gear that is so strong i should immediately seek it out? i know there are amulets that extend the potion duration. i know about arveldhiin's heart chest piece. do any other enchantments work in werewolf form? do armor enchantments work or just jewelry ones?

how does sustain/healing work in werewolf form? any neat tricks to regen health while a werewolf? or since it's an alchemy class is all the healing done via potions?

and finally, how in the HELL does claw damage work? i understand i should be cranking my alchemy stat. that much is clear. but how do i maximize claw damage besides that? from my super super preliminary testing, it would seem that putting a spell from my highest level magic school in one hand, and a bound sword in my other hand is the maximum damage i can get with claws through skills. from googling it says that claw damage is based on the base damage of weapons? so that means enchanting % damage and smithing would not affect claw damage correct?

my plan is to dump my learning points into light magic and use life absorption outside of my transformations. i'm going to also go heavy into thaumaturge for blessing of health, armor, and protection from magic spells since those remain active after transformation. i and since i'll be wearing werewolf specific armor i won't have great armor as a werewolf so i want to make sure divine armor is as juiced as possible. finally, bound weapons have no perk requirements to use the spells. so i just need enough mana to cast the highest rank one available to me at the time for the highest base damage. and once i have the spare perks i can grab mystical binding for a bit of extra damage.

also, i know there's a "soulcaller" class affinity, but is there a way to have an apparition out while you are transformed? seems counter productive to spec phasmalist and lycanthrope since you have to split crafting points and you can't be transformed and have an apparition out at the same time.

[Bomjus]

things i have figured out myself:

- i don't need to find or buy wolf blood recipes, i can just use the ingredients

- the wiki for ingredients is my friend

- healing appears to be entirely from potions. which makes sense considering you literally get a portable alchemy table

- i have since discovered, i believe, that the claw damage can be gained just by having two of the same spell from the same school in your hands. cause with 2 life absorption spells in my hands i have 86 claw damage and with a bound weapon in my right hand i can only get 81 total. early bound weapon is still probably the best for claw damage, especially if you don't have the economy to buy a lot of skill books.

things i still don't know:

what armor enchantments actually work when in wolf form. the claw damage is working, but i think that's it? maybe HP works since your werewolf health is based on your base health when transforming? hoping for more insight on that front.

[Syrris]

AFAIK your gear is unequipped while transformed, so armor enchants won't matter except to the extent that they affect your stats when you initiate it. (Fortify Armor will increase your armor value, which is a factor in your werewolf form armor value, etc.) Same with jewelry.

This also means that you want to be wearing the highest armor value (probably heavy armor) that you can find when you transform.


AFAIK recipes are fairly rare to buy but you can find them in various places. You don't need them to make anything though; the only one you "need" is the one that the intro quest directs you to so that you can finish it.

[theForgotten]

I've just finished the game playing werewolf (actually werebear as it seems to use the kill cam less often and the weird pause as it starts gets annoying). The longest transform I got was about 7 mins.
Don't plan to be transformed for every fight (unless you really really like making potions) so you will need a build that can do damage normally. Pick a damage type and make sure you lvl it by buying skill books.

Your claw damage is based upon what you have equipped when you transform ie. if your build is 2 hand weapons then equip the best you have before your transform, but if your a mage then equip your highest damage spell(s).

The enchantment on the necklace (and gloves) and can be learnt and re-enchanted if you lvl enchanting, although unless you lvl enchanting quite high it may not be worth it.
I managed to make a neck that said it would give me an extra 170 sec, but only seemed to give about 60.
Also the claw damage enchantment from the gloves can't go back on gloves, only neck, chest and head.

You don't need the vagrant tree, but it can help - but you could also go heavy armour, you' sacrifice some transform duration but gain survivablity. I did vagrant as there is a late game werewolf armour piece that's light, but I didn't end up using it much.
You don't need to go to deep into either if you don't want to - I only used the first few perks that improve armour till I had some points to spare around lvl 25-30.

[Bomjus]

thanks for the tips. the enchanting information is super useful. i'm currently dumping all my points into alchemy so i don't have any to spare for enchanting. i'm torn between handicraft and enchanting because handicraft would be nice for the legendary late game craftable items (like the backpack that gives %alchemy strenght) and improving my armor to make me tankier for transformations. but enchanting would be nice for fortify health, barter, and claw damage enchantments.

i also did end up dabbling in the vagrant tree. i only put in enough points for the 15% increased effectiveness of all potions. i'm trying to rush to the scourge of the woods synergy at the moment but once that's done i'll get the other 15% bonus for healing/wolf blood potions. i'll probably go light armor in the end because i have the chest piece you're talking about and i wear it frequently for the claw damage and bonuses it has to potions.

i will probably go elementalist when i have everything i want out of thaumaturge/lycanthrope. the cloak spells work in werewolf form so boosting their damage/reducing their cost would give me a benefit in werewolf form while also giving me damage in humanoid form. currently, i just transform for any fight that requires it. wolf blood ingredients are incredibly abundant so i chug that stuff lol.

[theForgotten]

I'd do handicraft before enchanting - in the phantasmal tree is a perk that lets you improve enchanted items (including set pieces), it takes 4 points to get to it though.
To improve items to legendary you need 161 points - there is a reddit post about how to get that many.
I ended up with 100 handicraft and 75 alchemy around lvl 30ish, at witch point I tried enchanting but you need a lot of lvls you make anything better than you can find, and if you use armor sets then your really only enchanting weapons and jewellery, I only ended up enchanting a few things late in the game.

[Chosen Chalupa]

Your best bet is building spell blade, claw damage scales of weapon skill in main hand, weapon quality, and spell skill in either hand, it doesn't scale off spell quality, only what school it is from and its related skill level. Any school works pick one or two favorites and hammer them up in level.

You could dual wield spells to effectiveness but for some reason it scales off your weapon skill TWICE (in your main hand). Dual wielding weapons does nothing. Get the best grade of weapon you can, doesn't really matter what type. Pump one handed and a spell, you don't need the perks (they do nothing in werewolf form).

Heavy armor is nice, as your armor per-transformation affects your werewolf form, crafting will be more important than enchanting. Dont be afraid to dip vagrant for better alchemy perks. Enchanting got nerfed and used to be worth, you have to have maxed out enchanting for it to be worth over set items and even then its debatable.

If you couldn't use an apparition then why does the dual class literally turn your apparition into a werewolf? The real issue is you'll be split between alchemy and enchanting most of the game, with few crafting points to spare is it worth it, for someone to get in your way constantly and do negligible damage (compared to what you'll be doing).

[Bomjus]

so i was leaning towards enchanting because of human form combat. i know this isn't skyrim, but i usually focused my build in skyrim around fighting dragons. in enderal i've basically been chugging wolf blood potions for any medium-difficult fight. and of those fights, none of them had enemies that were flying or out of reach so it wasn't a problem. i wanted to enchant some gear for cost reduction in case wolf form wasn't working for a specific fight. but as you guys said, i will most likely find gear that reduces it enough regardless (i already have found a 20% elementalism reduction circlet). and i really want that better potion backpack so i'll probably go handicraft as you two suggest.

as for armor, i'll improve that as i level handicrafting. it's not a priority of mine since i'm doing lycan/thaumaturge and divine armor is already providing me with an incredible amount of armor along with the 15% from scourge of the woods.

i've done some pretty thorough testing at this point for claw damage, and while i do get more damage when i put points into one handed, it's not a ton compared to trying to max a single magic school and dual wielding a spell from that school. with 91 light and 2 light spells my claws deal 168 damage. with 91 light and ~58 one handed with an aeterna sword my claws deal 181 damage. does the extra damage from smithing a weapon contribute to claw damage? if so, then that would be a significant enough damage difference to make it worth it. otherwise, i'll most likely go elementalist or sneak as my second combat skill since i can pre cast cloak spells before transforming for a nice chunk of passive damage, but want higher skill levels to reduce the cost, or one shot enemies with claw sneak attacks.

Автор сообщения: Skog

If you couldn't use an apparition then why does the dual class literally turn your apparition into a werewolf? The real issue is you'll be split between alchemy and enchanting most of the game, with few crafting points to spare is it worth it, for someone to get in your way constantly and do negligible damage (compared to what you'll be doing).

i didn't test it thoroughly, but as soon as i transformed into wolf form my talisman unequipped (like all gear does) and my apparition vanished. not sure what the selling point of that dual class is...

[Bomjus]

so you are correct, sword/spell is indeed the optimal setup for claw damage. i just haven't gotten to a point in the game yet where one handers give me more damage than a second spell at 100 magic school. until i get aeterna weapons legit, or corpse tooth, dual spells will suffice. handicraft smithing a weapon does not increase claw damage. handicraft smithing armor does increase armor though. stamina enchants increase armor and claw damage and mana does as well with the aether blood perk. since smithed weapons don't increase claw damage, i think i will go enchanting instead of handicraft. with enchanting boosted i can make much higher claw damage equipment, and anything i can't put claw damage on i can put either max stamina or max mana for more armor and claw damage. and with handicraft gear, and handicraft potions, i'll be able to smith my armor a decent amount.

if smithing weapons increased claw damage, i'd 100% say handicraft is worth. but divine armor+regular armor+max stamina/mana enchantments is already so close to the cap that going handicraft *just* for smithing armor does not seem worth it. i'm at 372 armor at the moment with no smithed armor, divine shield 3, and level 26 with no self-enchanted gear. it should be incredibly easy for me to reach the armor cap. not to mention getting mana enchantments via gear mean i will have the mana pool to actually cast divine armor, magic protection, blessing of life, a bound weapon (until i get a better one hander), and maybe even a cloak spell for more close quarters AoE damage.

came to these conclusions from testing and from this awesome post: https://www.reddit.com/r/enderal/comments/i8ynad/lycanthrope_stats_guide/

oh also, for anyone who reads this, i just figured out that you can cast a ward spell, and if you bring up the inventory screen while you are casting that ward and then drink a wolf blood potion, you keep the ward armor. so i actually have 475 armor while in werewolf form at the moment.

[ArnMan]

I just don't understand why my character die after the lycanthrope form exhaust. Bug? I transform the fist time to kill the vatyr in Three River Watch.

[Ishiga]

Автор сообщения: ArnMan

I just don't understand why my character die after the lycanthrope form exhaust. Bug? I transform the fist time to kill the vatyr in Three River Watch.

As near as I can tell, this might be because of the bonus health you get in wolf form. I don't recall is this game still has all the old bugs with health fortification buffs but back in Morrowind, if you had less life left than a fortify health effect gave you, it would bring your health to negatives/zero when it wore off, thus killing you. I don't think I've ever used those effects since that game because of that. And since this title is built on top of the Skyrim engine, which is also, actually, still the same engine as morrowind but heavily updated for the time, that old quirk might still be around.

[ArnMan]

This is the answer. My health was low when I drink the lycanthrope potion. And I loose some while fighting the Vatyr (my last save game was right after the fight because my health was very low). To avoid death with this "negative health effet" I try to drink a health potion before turning back into human form, and did not die!

[overdev]

that should not happen. would be good if you would report it. check out the first point in the pinned FAQ on how to properly report a bug.

[ArnMan]

I know about bug report but I don't want to join a Discord.

[overdev]

Then upload your save files somewhere else and post the link here.

[ArnMan]

Ok I will do this.