Special Move Cancels

[poltergeist]

Hi,

how do I find out which kombos / attacks can be special move cancelled? Do I need to try them all manually? Considering that some attacks can only be cancelled on hit, I would imagine there should be a way to look it up?

I saw that there is a "Cancel" Frames info on the moves, but this does not seem to be special move cancel related? At least with Sub Zero the "I" (key) punch has a cancel info in the moves list, but I fail to special cancel it with or without a successful hit.

Bonus question: If an attack can be special move cancelled, can all special moves cancel it, or are there attacks that can only be cancelled by specific special moves?

Thanks in advance

[jaywolfenstien]

I always just try it in practice, but I enjoy experimenting and figuring things out in practice mode, so I've never really looked for an indicator. I learn by doing things anyway, so a full property breakdown wouldn't be terrible useful for me in the early stages of learning a character.

As far as I know if an attack or string is special cancellable, any special will cancel the normal; however, the special may not hit. For example, if you have a string that launches, some specials might go under them as they're in the air (or something.)

You just have to experiment or look up combo videos where someone has done thr experimenting for you.

[popsicle]

Not all special moves can be canceled. Only the ones that are shown in the menu.... like press down, down or left, left.

[Creed Bratton]

In the move list you will see the cancel frames as you said, but you also need to look at the start up frames of the special move

If a string like 1,1,1 has 15 frames of cancel you will be able to cancel to a special move that has less than 15 frames of startup, if the special is 20 frames on startup the special will come out but it can get blocked even on hit

A good example of this is trying to do a special move after a d3 or d4 poke, even if the d3 connects the special can still be blocked

Cancel frames also applies to strings, if a standing 1 (front punch) has 15 cancel frames it means you have 15 frames to input the 2nd hit of the string otherwise you'll just get another standing 1

AFAIK every special can be done on block if the string has cancel frames but not always is a good idea since some strings can be safe on block and inputing the special might make you open to a punish

[Creed Bratton]

Originally posted by popsicle:

Not all special moves can be canceled. Only the ones that are shown in the menu.... like press down, down or left, left.

OP is talking about doing special moves after a string wich is called special cancel

[рехнут]

Originally posted by Creed Bratton:

If a string like 1,1,1 has 15 frames of cancel you will be able to cancel to a special move that has less than 15 frames of startup, if the special is 20 frames on startup the special will come out but it can get blocked even on hit

i'm pretty sure, that's not what cancel-advantage defines, cancel window defines amount of frames you have to do the inputs you want to cancel into. it has nothing to do with frame dis/advantage on block/hit > slow specials being blockable/interruptable

Originally posted by Creed Bratton:

A good example of this is trying to do a special move after a d3 or d4 poke, even if the d3 connects the special can still be blocked

ugh, thank god it can at least still be blocked; what a shame it can't be interrupted (for some stupid reason of poor gameplay design) -_- just imagine you could hit-confirm pokes, what a cancer that would be.
so yeah, pokes are not a good example, cuz they work different from other normals, command normals and strings; and they should work like that; except poke>special is not interruptable on block, like, jezus wtf -_-

[Creed Bratton]

I believe it can be interrupted if the special is slow on start up like noobs slow proyectile or shang tsung's corpse drop
But it also depends on how long the opponent is staggered this is called jail, for example some d1 can be followed up by another string, it won't count as a combo but the opponent can't do ♥♥♥♥ to avoid it

Kotal's d4 into db4 (the sword unblockeable) is guarenteed in that scenario, it won't count as a combo but if the opponent eats the d4 he can't block, flawless block, dash or jump and the special will connect always, i think that is the only poke that can be hit confirmed in the game

[рехнут]

Originally posted by Creed Bratton:

I believe it can be interrupted if the special is slow on start up like noobs slow proyectile or shang tsung's corpse drop
But it also depends on how long the opponent is staggered this is called jail, for example some d1 can be followed up by another string, it won't count as a combo but the opponent can't do ♥♥♥♥ to avoid it

ikr, but jailing is defined by frame advantage on hit, not cancel adv; so are gaps between block adv and slow specials

Originally posted by Creed Bratton:

Kotal's d4 into db4 (the sword unblockeable) is guarenteed in that scenario, it won't count as a combo but if the opponent eats the d4 he can't block, flawless block, dash or jump and the special will connect always, i think that is the only poke that can be hit confirmed in the game

yeah, that ♥♥♥♥'s broke as ♥♥♥♥, it doesn't make any sense at all

[ivan866_z]

first of, Character Tutorials mention some kombos which can be special move canceled
second, i think only the simplest and shortest kombos can, such as JJ or II