Panoptic Mirror and Time Warp combo (game ending and just not fun for anyone)

[Kurtis]

This combo is just not fun for anyone. Your opponent never gets his or her turn because Time Warp casts again at the beginning of every upkeep. The only way you could really lose is if you ran out of cards to draw (extremely unlikely).

The combo is beyond cheesy; it just immediately ends the game. Please remove this combo.

[Kurtis]

This is for the Crosswinds deck btw

[Trip Hazard]

yeah I ran into an opponent who pulled this on me. Pretty clever but yeah it's annoying.

[GB EX]

To be entirely honest, as b/s as that combo is, I feel like it's just one of its few effective win conditions. Perhaps I'm not very skillful at using Crosswinds, but it doesn't seem like it has much else going for it (in terms of win conditions) other than Panoptic Mirror + Time Warp, Rite of Replication, or Talrand's Invocation.

The combo itself is decently difficult to achieve, considering there's only one Panoptic Mirror. It can be destroyed, or bounced (which leaves the exiled spell exiled forever), not to mention easily countered (unless you're leaving a huge amount of mana out to counter the counter).

[Mr.Meow Attorney at Paw!]

i do think it is one of the best combos in the game. imo crosswinds is the best deck in 2v2, has the most "good" matchups

[Umaril]

It is an OP combo, not much you can do at all if they get it going. But it seems quite a rare least, I've only pulled it off a handful of times. But with the mirror and pretty much any card Talrands goes from being a pretty decent deck, to being totally insane.

[Kurtis]

I here you guys: that deck needs some combos that work. But executing a combo should be advantageous, not game shattering. Panoptic and Time Warp just ends the game...you cannot lose. You get another turn over and over and over and over... who wants a game to end that way?? The answer is nobody, not even the person winning the game. It's just kind of silly.

[GB EX]

Originally posted by kjbaraja:

Panoptic and Time Warp just ends the game...you cannot lose. You get another turn over and over and over and over... who wants a game to end that way?? The answer is nobody, not even the person winning the game. It's just kind of silly.

Actually, it's quite satisfying against the cheating CPU, especially after they've top-decked their wins nearly ten times in a row.

But seriously, I agree, it's no fun against a real human player. Well, for some 'less sporting' players, sure, it is fun, but I'm not one of those people.

[Tavi ❤]

Panoptic Mirror + Time Warp requires two specific cards, costs a good amount of mana, and spends its time on the field where it is fairly easy to disrupt using counterspells, artifact or permanent answers. The player with Panoptic doesn't have much choice but going all-in and even gives you a chance of 2-for-1-ing them with simple instant-speed removal.

There are fairly many cards that have such a large impact on the game that they are "must-answers" in themselves. There are even more 2-card combinations that provide almost insurmountable adantages.

And many people do find interactions like that fun, myself included. The proper way of responding to it is either with an answer or by scooping up your cards, congratulating your opponent and moving on to the next game.

[LastSide]

I just scoop my cards... well in this case I "Concede Duel" (as the game puts it) then search/create for a new game. Its is annoying and almost fool proof if your deck did not draw an instant destroy artifact/counter.

[Mr.Meow Attorney at Paw!]

Originally posted by !@#$ Binksies:

Panoptic Mirror + Time Warp requires two specific cards, costs a good amount of mana, and spends its time on the field where it is fairly easy to disrupt using counterspells, artifact or permanent answers. The player with Panoptic doesn't have much choice but going all-in and even gives you a chance of 2-for-1-ing them with simple instant-speed removal.

There are fairly many cards that have such a large impact on the game that they are "must-answers" in themselves. There are even more 2-card combinations that provide almost insurmountable adantages.

And many people do find interactions like that fun, myself included. The proper way of responding to it is either with an answer or by scooping up your cards, congratulating your opponent and moving on to the next game.

+1, i think aura has a more peskier combo imo, the turn 3 hexproof drop (saint geist i think) can get REAL big/ indestrutable trn 4 makeing him a pretty solid early game winner

[Tavi ❤]

Originally posted by LastSide:

I just scoop my cards... well in this case I "Concede Duel" (as the game puts it) then search/create for a new game. Its is annoying and almost fool proof if your deck did not draw an instant destroy artifact/counter.

5 mana is fair for a play that must be answered, especially if you give it time.

There are many situations like this, I understand where you are coming from though.

If your opponent drops a must-answer in the form of a creature, say, Grave Titan, you may be in incredibly dire straits if you don't quickly draw removal for it, and even then you'll have to deal with 2/2 zombie tokens. But you still get to untap, still get to hope that the top of your library is a kill spell, right?

In the end having a lock put on you is no different from having Lightning Bolt aimed at your head when you're at 3. You are now out of options. Magic is ultimately a game of achieveing that.

[Balt]

I hate it, it's just a brainless win... This is supposed to be a strategy game, meaning that everything is about chosing between different things you can do...
Well if you can do that, you are sure to win, why doing smthg else? Absolutely nonsense and that's a weakness of Magic imo (you have nothing like that in L5R for exemple)

[lockwoodx]

Crosswinds is the new "Knights". Refuse to play against it and players eventually will get the hint to stop using it.

[Tavi ❤]

Originally posted by Balt:

I hate it, it's just a brainless win... This is supposed to be a strategy game, meaning that everything is about chosing between different things you can do...
Well if you can do that, you are sure to win, why doing smthg else? Absolutely nonsense and that's a weakness of Magic imo (you have nothing like that in L5R for exemple)

Sure you can just put this on the field and win, and sometimes you'll run into answers. Or you could be a good player and bait removal and answers or stall the game so you can play it with back-up. Taking chances may in some cases be seen as skilless, but if you can't see that nuanced plays can lead up to a win with this you do not see the full spectrum of strategies in Magic and you are very likely being played and instead of searching yourself for the answer as to why you blame it on the game.