[Update] The charm is... coming back... so quickly.

[Wawaweewa]

- Playing on Easy (Commoner) makes me feel unaccomplished and like i'm cheesing the game, playing on Hard (Gladiator) has me starting to hate the game the more runs I do. There really doesn't feel like an investment in your character, I start to feel apathy and relent to the feeling of impending death. The more I play, the more negative the experience becomes.

[EDIT] I feel much more accomplished now having gotten to 2.7M score on Commoner difficulty and got so close to my Victory condition of 100,000 fame before dying in my Gladiator difficulty run right after, was at about 750K in score. A big leap from only making it to 175K Grand Champion in the first couple of days by just a hair.

- Combat feels more annoying than satisfying. Throwing is quite obsolete, does anyone actually want to dedicate time towards Throwing skill? Like... why? Polearms are also only effective on one side of your opponent, as you can only really swing right-to-left and not vice versa. People keep recommending to cheese with Flail/Shield/Polearm/2H, we get it (powerful weapons) but how about if I want to purely play 1H no shield? Moreover, what if I want to target the weakened enemy of the group in order to deduce who I will face last? There's no indicator as to who has what HP, and we already know AI stamina is an issue, let alone showing us how much stamina a gladiator might have. IRL you might notice your opponent heaving as they are worn out, but no such indicators here, let alone why would you target a leg/shoulder in priority over a blow to the head? There's no limb health/damage, only armor.

[EDIT] Combat actually feels quite satisfying other than maybe sometimes AI teammates/enemies just standing around when no one is in proximity it seems. Throwing works well for Axes/Throwing Pilas, you can even hurl 2H Godly Axe like a beyblade if you swing right directionally. I thought that was hilarious. From my understanding AI Stamina is already a focus in the coming patch so that's great to hear!

- Economy is trash in Hard mode, it just feels hopeless.

[EDIT] The economy is still a bit hard in Gladiator but as long as you spend money on the upgrade for better base heals from your Scollo medic you should be doing alright as long as you don't take more than 50% dmg in a fight, otherwise healing will remain costly and I don't see the other heal upgrade that cuts cost viable till you actually have an abundance of money where therein it becomes redundant as you already have the cash/fame anyways and the discounts aren't significant by that point.

- Spoils to Victor is redundant after about lvl 3. Why would I want to pick up a lesser shield/weapon, especially knowing that the toss-ins aren't reliable and you'll be damaging the durability during fight. Say goodbye to the money you thought you'd be gaining by going in without shield/weapon, or just don't pick up the weapon which is handy to save your life just so you can risk dying for some chump change.

[EDIT] Spoils to Victor can be nice, but still kind of useless as RNG for what gets tossed in the arena can be pretty bad, also I can't recall but Spoil to Victor doesn't mean that the enemy will enter the arena unarmed, they usually have their default loadout so it can still be a risk if you enter unarmed with intent to scavenge a nice Impressive-Masterwork item. I once had the opponent wield a 2H Battleaxe and chop me down to 0 while I tried every corner of the arena for something decent, and this was further along towards victory condition end, I was indeed chapped.

- Dash is extremely underwhelming... Timing, effectiveness... Coming from Chivalry/For Honor where it's actually smooth and satisfying.

[EDIT] Can actually be quite alright sometimes, but sometimes no.

- Movement is pointless because your character is chased at mach speed. How about if Movement actually meant that it wouldn't take such a toll on your stamina for you to run? Actually the same could be said for weapons, how about if levelling it meant that it would take less stamina for a swing? It's rather cutthroat that all your swings drain the same amount each time.

[EDIT] Someone had mentioned to me that in free cam you run faster sort of... yes this is true. I recommend everyone transition between Lock On/Free Cam while in battle, not using just one. Fixed up a lot of my combat flaws.

- The only way to 1vM is to cheese, strategy? Toss that out the window. Implement waves.

[EDIT] It still sort of is, I wouldn't recommend using a shield/1H combo to do a 1vM, weapons with a bit of range like Polearm/2H are your best chances, there are weapons that allow extra-hit with 25% fall-off for every extra combatant hit.

I understand, it's Early Access, but desire to "improve" my own combat has gone down the drain on my 3rd day playing. If you're doing great and you feel accomplished, ask yourself why and how? I was having fun the 1st and 2nd day, even after the frustrations, but I look back at those days and see that it was plain novelty and that it's wearing off.

[EDIT] PATIENCE, YOUNG WARRIOR.

You will assuredly get many refunds as i've already caught myself saying "I hate this" more than once, and I never really say that. Coming from insurmountable deaths playing other difficult games. I just don't love it, maybe slightly like it for the fact that it's Gladiator themed. I'll go back to Chivalry/M&B/For Honor.

[EDIT] This is true, I did say what I said, and I did shamefully attempt a refund and was denied, and i'm glad that I was because this game grew on me since my initial experience. I am now looking forward to all the exciting patches in the future. Thank you so much for this game.

Everyone needs to gather their findings of flaws and post on this forum, I don't see this achieving it's peak potential otherwise. Fun game for a second, until it's not.
[EDIT] Most of us beginners are going to have moot points when pointing out flaws because simply we are inexperienced, as they say it... "get gud". Jordy out here watching all of us crackheads complain and it's probably hilarious because he and the others who have played more than us know what we do not. Just keep playing folks! Would love to see more ideas pointed out, but remember it's only 1 person doing all the work! Be kind.

[Cryptic]

Agreed

[Major Fret]

Not saying the game doesn't need work (it's version 0.1, ofc it needs work), but I do disagree with some of these points.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Playing on Easy (Commoner) makes me feel unaccomplished and like i'm cheesing the game, playing on Hard (Gladiator) has me starting to hate the game the more runs I do. There really doesn't feel like an investment in your character, I start to feel apathy and relent to the feeling of impending death. The more I play, the more negative the experience becomes.

As someone who started on the lower difficulty and built my way up to gladiator, I personally found it rather satisfying. Sure I did get ten different XP bars telling me I'm good at the game now, but I actually figured out how to play effectively and get to a point where what I thought was impossible was actually rather do-able. I can't decide if that's satisfactory for you or not, but I've enjoyed my near 30 hours in the game so far.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Combat feels more annoying than satisfying. Throwing is quite obsolete, does anyone actually want to dedicate time towards Throwing skill? Like... why? Polearms are also only effective on one side of your opponent, as you can only really swing right-to-left and not vice versa. People keep recommending to cheese with Flail/Shield/Polearm/2H, we get it (powerful weapons) but how about if I want to purely play 1H no shield? Moreover, what if I want to target the weakened enemy of the group in order to deduce who I will face last? There's no indicator as to who has what HP, and we already know AI stamina is an issue, let alone showing us how much stamina a gladiator might have. IRL you might notice your opponent heaving as they are worn out, but no such indicators here, let alone why would you target a leg/shoulder in priority over a blow to the head? There's no limb health/damage, only armor.

Some of this, such as throwing and polearms I agree with. That being said, playing 1H only in a game where shields and 2H is an option is almost always going to be a handicap. Only advantage in WWAATD can think of is to use it for stamina, but even that's a stretch.

Also, I don't want to know the HP of my enemies. It's led to some tense moments when I'm down to 1/3 or so of my health with one man standing. Will my next swing do him in, or am I in for a fight? The tension adds so much to the experience. Also, you can generally tell that someone has been hit if they have some blood on them. Not always easy, but it is sometimes a sign.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Economy is trash in Hard mode, it just feels hopeless.

Well, to a degree it should feel hopeless. The backgrounds are of those who are either deranged civilians or low class slaves/prisoners. That being said, there are plenty of ways to take advantage of the economy. Betting (especially as a criminal), Spoils to the Victor, exchanging fame for gold are all good ways to come out ahead.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Spoils to Victor is redundant after about lvl 3. Why would I want to pick up a lesser shield/weapon, especially knowing that the toss-ins aren't reliable and you'll be damaging the durability during fight. Say goodbye to the money you thought you'd be gaining by going in without shield/weapon, or just don't pick up the weapon which is handy to save your life just so you can risk dying for some chump change.

At the mid to later stages, toss ins are reliable enough to work. I've made it work plenty on my current play through and if you're playing a 'vs many' type of match, you'll likely get 4k from what you pick up.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Dash is extremely underwhelming... Timing, effectiveness... Coming from Chivalry/For Honor where it's actually smooth and satisfying.

This I do agree with.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Movement is pointless because your character is chased at mach speed. How about if Movement actually meant that it wouldn't take such a toll on your stamina for you to run? Actually the same could be said for weapons, how about if levelling it meant that it would take less stamina for a swing? It's rather cutthroat that all your swings drain the same amount each time.

I do agree with the first part, but for weapons, I would point out training weapons does boost your damage, and if you have trained stamina, it's not really a problem. Granted I do see the argument that having to train stamina no matter what isn't ideal, but that sort of thing tends to happen when a game has 10+ train-able skills. Some just matter more than others.

Originally posted by Okey:

- The only way to 1vM is to cheese, strategy? Toss that out the window. Implement waves.

I agree that 1vM does require a bit of cheesing, but I don't think waves is the answer. I personally would like to see the AI be more dynamic. I'd love to see wounded /disarmed AI retreat and let their buddies try and fight you, or for enemies try to flank you more.

Originally posted by Okey:

I understand, it's Early Access, but desire to "improve" my own combat has gone down the drain on my 3rd day playing. If you're doing great and you feel accomplished, ask yourself why and how? I was having fun the 1st and 2nd day, even after the frustrations, but I look back at those days and see that it was plain novelty and that it's wearing off.

You will assuredly get many refunds as i've already caught myself saying "I hate this" more than once, and I never really say that. Coming from insurmountable deaths playing other difficult games. I just don't love it, maybe slightly like it for the fact that it's Gladiator themed. I'll go back to Chivalry/M&B/For Honor.

Everyone needs to gather their findings of flaws and post on this forum, I don't see this achieving it's peak potential otherwise. Fun game for a second, until it's not.

As mentioned above, I can't decide if the game is satisfying to you in its current state. For many people it probably isn't. Like every other early access game I've ever played, I recommend people only buy if they are willing to risk losing their money to an unfinished experience. Maybe this game gets finished, maybe the developer gets hit by a car and dies as I'm typing this.

That being said, I see a lot of potential in WWAATD. There are issues (overhead spam makes the game too easy, AI is a bit simple, camera can be a pain), but I do think if Jordy puts in the work, he'll have a very good game on his hands.

[pRaX]

The AI is the only reason I haven't picked it up yet. Everytime I watch footage, I see them braindeadly homing in on the player, potentially not playing by the same rules either, turning it into a backpedaling walking simulator.

[Wawaweewa]

Originally posted by Major Fret:

Not saying the game doesn't need work (it's version 0.1, ofc it needs work), but I do disagree with some of these points.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Playing on Easy (Commoner) makes me feel unaccomplished and like i'm cheesing the game, playing on Hard (Gladiator) has me starting to hate the game the more runs I do. There really doesn't feel like an investment in your character, I start to feel apathy and relent to the feeling of impending death. The more I play, the more negative the experience becomes.

As someone who started on the lower difficulty and built my way up to gladiator, I personally found it rather satisfying. Sure I did get ten different XP bars telling me I'm good at the game now, but I actually figured out how to play effectively and get to a point where what I thought was impossible was actually rather do-able. I can't decide if that's satisfactory for you or not, but I've enjoyed my near 30 hours in the game so far.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Combat feels more annoying than satisfying. Throwing is quite obsolete, does anyone actually want to dedicate time towards Throwing skill? Like... why? Polearms are also only effective on one side of your opponent, as you can only really swing right-to-left and not vice versa. People keep recommending to cheese with Flail/Shield/Polearm/2H, we get it (powerful weapons) but how about if I want to purely play 1H no shield? Moreover, what if I want to target the weakened enemy of the group in order to deduce who I will face last? There's no indicator as to who has what HP, and we already know AI stamina is an issue, let alone showing us how much stamina a gladiator might have. IRL you might notice your opponent heaving as they are worn out, but no such indicators here, let alone why would you target a leg/shoulder in priority over a blow to the head? There's no limb health/damage, only armor.

Some of this, such as throwing and polearms I agree with. That being said, playing 1H only in a game where shields and 2H is an option is almost always going to be a handicap. Only advantage in WWAATD can think of is to use it for stamina, but even that's a stretch.

Also, I don't want to know the HP of my enemies. It's led to some tense moments when I'm down to 1/3 or so of my health with one man standing. Will my next swing do him in, or am I in for a fight? The tension adds so much to the experience. Also, you can generally tell that someone has been hit if they have some blood on them. Not always easy, but it is sometimes a sign.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Economy is trash in Hard mode, it just feels hopeless.

Well, to a degree it should feel hopeless. The backgrounds are of those who are either deranged civilians or low class slaves/prisoners. That being said, there are plenty of ways to take advantage of the economy. Betting (especially as a criminal), Spoils to the Victor, exchanging fame for gold are all good ways to come out ahead.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Spoils to Victor is redundant after about lvl 3. Why would I want to pick up a lesser shield/weapon, especially knowing that the toss-ins aren't reliable and you'll be damaging the durability during fight. Say goodbye to the money you thought you'd be gaining by going in without shield/weapon, or just don't pick up the weapon which is handy to save your life just so you can risk dying for some chump change.

At the mid to later stages, toss ins are reliable enough to work. I've made it work plenty on my current play through and if you're playing a 'vs many' type of match, you'll likely get 4k from what you pick up.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Dash is extremely underwhelming... Timing, effectiveness... Coming from Chivalry/For Honor where it's actually smooth and satisfying.

This I do agree with.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Movement is pointless because your character is chased at mach speed. How about if Movement actually meant that it wouldn't take such a toll on your stamina for you to run? Actually the same could be said for weapons, how about if levelling it meant that it would take less stamina for a swing? It's rather cutthroat that all your swings drain the same amount each time.

I do agree with the first part, but for weapons, I would point out training weapons does boost your damage, and if you have trained stamina, it's not really a problem. Granted I do see the argument that having to train stamina no matter what isn't ideal, but that sort of thing tends to happen when a game has 10+ train-able skills. Some just matter more than others.

Originally posted by Okey:

- The only way to 1vM is to cheese, strategy? Toss that out the window. Implement waves.

I agree that 1vM does require a bit of cheesing, but I don't think waves is the answer. I personally would like to see the AI be more dynamic. I'd love to see wounded /disarmed AI retreat and let their buddies try and fight you, or for enemies try to flank you more.

Originally posted by Okey:

I understand, it's Early Access, but desire to "improve" my own combat has gone down the drain on my 3rd day playing. If you're doing great and you feel accomplished, ask yourself why and how? I was having fun the 1st and 2nd day, even after the frustrations, but I look back at those days and see that it was plain novelty and that it's wearing off.

You will assuredly get many refunds as i've already caught myself saying "I hate this" more than once, and I never really say that. Coming from insurmountable deaths playing other difficult games. I just don't love it, maybe slightly like it for the fact that it's Gladiator themed. I'll go back to Chivalry/M&B/For Honor.

Everyone needs to gather their findings of flaws and post on this forum, I don't see this achieving it's peak potential otherwise. Fun game for a second, until it's not.

As mentioned above, I can't decide if the game is satisfying to you in its current state. For many people it probably isn't. Like every other early access game I've ever played, I recommend people only buy if they are willing to risk losing their money to an unfinished experience. Maybe this game gets finished, maybe the developer gets hit by a car and dies as I'm typing this.

That being said, I see a lot of potential in WWAATD. There are issues (overhead spam makes the game too easy, AI is a bit simple, camera can be a pain), but I do think if Jordy puts in the work, he'll have a very good game on his hands.

Okay, fair points! I shall press on with my playtime and see for myself. I believe it is worth the $20 investment in terms of the potential it could be.

[Yokozuna]

Completely agree with everything you've said. Also, just a lack of content. I've seen everything in a few hours. Huge lack of variety when it comes to weapons, armor, and combatants.

[Inibro]

Just a tip, if you don't lock on you seem to run just a hair faster than the enemies and can effectively kite with a few quick jabs against the pack leaders. I also rush training on stamina and movement at the beginning so that could be a factor.

As a result, I beat 1vM all the time without "cheesing". Basically I just circle and swipe but it's never so mundane or guaranteed as kiting in M&B for example. Still take hits, often its down to the wire, but when you rake in 20k off one battle I think that's fair

[Rune]

There actually are two indicators of enemy HP.

1. How bloody they are.

2. When any character is low-health they start exhibiting tremors when standing. Enemy AI, when weak is hardly agressive just standing there trembling waiting for an opportunity to strike.

[Lechuck's Beard]

Honestly, and I know this sounds like such a tool bag thing to say, but the vast majority of gripes are really just down to lack of game knowledge, choice of camera control, and player skill.

I can't comment on dash because I never ever use it. Same with throwing. 1 v Many needs some love, but manageable without cheesing. Everything else is literally knowledge and skill.

[jeetrix]

Originally posted by Okey:

-The more I play, the more negative the experience becomes.

maybe its not just the game

Originally posted by Okey:

Throwing is quite obsolete, does anyone actually want to dedicate time towards Throwing skill? Like... why?

its a decisive way to have in your arsenal of possibilities to turn a fight, given you actually learn how to use it effectively.

Originally posted by Okey:

but how about if I want to purely play 1H no shield?

perfectly viable but you'll be vulnerable, as you should be.

Originally posted by Okey:

There's no indicator as to who has what HP, and we already know AI stamina is an issue, let alone showing us how much stamina a gladiator might have.

you can tell from the blood and the movement, but you need to actually observe it.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Economy is trash in Hard mode, it just feels hopeless.

its a balance, but if you constantly waste your money without prioritising, on gladiator mode it will cost you your life. You actually need to make better choices and save up judging from what you say.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Spoils to Victor is redundant after about lvl 3.

well this is completely not true i mean at any level there is a good chance to get a valuable item from f.e. a pit fight. this is maybe one of the reasons why your economy feels hopeless caus you 're missing good opportunity here.

Originally posted by Okey:

- Dash is extremely underwhelming... Timing, effectiveness... Coming from Chivalry/For Honor where it's actually smooth and satisfying.

actually agreed on this one, good point and references

Originally posted by Okey:

- Movement is pointless

its a base modifier, you should only sprint when you can afford it. When movement is trained you move very fast without sprint.

Originally posted by Okey:

- The only way to 1vM is to cheese, strategy?

that's just your play-style and opinion i guess, your logic is ambiguous.

I understand it feels dispelling, because there is a huge gap between commoner and gladiator difficulty. A slider instead of a hard gap could solve a lot of these issues. The first is easy, the latter requires you to play well, controlled, and is much more unforgiving.

One way i used to keep it more manageable is having a commoner-mode char, then pass on some money and a decent weapon to a gladiator-character.

You are at that point to start tackling the gladiator-difficulty but you want it to be the same sort of instant gratification as easy mode , and really hate the consequence of loosing, blaming the game rather than your play-style.

Either way there's some good points, albeit somewhat rant-ish.

[Krysess210]

im super glad i was able to refund the game just seems lacking hope it gets better in the future

[Paper (the cooler 1)]

I'm getting annoyed with the animations myself. Why am I getting randomly launched across the battlefield? Why are enemies blocking attacks from behind? I wish you didn't flop around when you got hit, since I think that's part of why the animations look so bad

Edit: Polearms. Those things are basically useless because you're forced to just beat down an enemy shield with them.

[Rune]

Originally posted by Paper (the cooler 1):

I'm getting annoyed with the animations myself. Why am I getting randomly launched across the battlefield? Why are enemies blocking attacks from behind? I wish you didn't flop around when you got hit, since I think that's part of why the animations look so bad

Edit: Polearms. Those things are basically useless because you're forced to just beat down an enemy shield with them.

Actually no, If you get your ranging right, the head of the polearm goes right over the shield.

[Wawaweewa]

Originally posted by Rune:

Originally posted by Paper (the cooler 1):

I'm getting annoyed with the animations myself. Why am I getting randomly launched across the battlefield? Why are enemies blocking attacks from behind? I wish you didn't flop around when you got hit, since I think that's part of why the animations look so bad

Edit: Polearms. Those things are basically useless because you're forced to just beat down an enemy shield with them.

Actually no, If you get your ranging right, the head of the polearm goes right over the shield.

True. It's very satisfying when you step in the right direction at just the right range, even using dash before you let the strike fly is kind of nice! :)