A less positive review of Spiritfarer

[Nom]

I am sad to say I was disappointed by Spiritfarer.

A good friend and I had the chance to coop play through the just-before-release version of the game over the last couple of weeks. We went into it with expectations of making friends with interesting characters, getting to know them, and feeling melancholy about seeing them go. In the end, we only really cared about a handful, definitely less than half, before they left. Instead of being left with memorable moments, we were left with vague impressions. Instead of a feeling of, "I wish I had more time with them," we had unanswered questions that felt vital to truly caring about these people.

We're a couple of sensitive guys. We both really dug Undertale and Night in the Woods, primarily because of their characters and the situations those characters got put into. Unfortunately, we both felt like there wasn't nearly enough character building in Spiritfarer, and there were almost no interesting situations. The characters almost never get to make decisions or take actions, and very, very few of them ever have any kind of reaction to being on the ship with each other.

Let me be clear: there are basically zero inter-character conversations on the ship. I am honestly upset with the new animated trailer for making it seem like you'll have all of these lovely moments together with groups of friends, talking and sharing stories, getting to watch Gwen snark at Atul or Alice take care of Stanley. But, no, that doesn't happen. It's not even really implied. There are two "group" events in the entire game, and they don't involve spirits talking to each other. Off the top of my head there are only a few times in the entire game that a spirit "does" something besides make a text bubble over their head telling you they want to say something. They have almost no agency to do things that would generate memorable moments.

Meanwhile, most spirits don't seem to develop a bond with Stella over time. For most it feels like there's a "we just met" phase, a nebulous "you're doing stuff for me" phase, and then a goodbye speech at the end. The transition from "new shipmate" to "friend" doesn't really seem to happen with most of the spirits. My coop friend and I strongly felt like a majority of the characters didn't share enough about themselves, or do anything engaging enough, for us to care about them. I hesitate to call most of them shallow, but some of them are, and for most of the others you only dip your foot into the shallow end of their pool.

In the end, we spent what felt like at least 15 of our 30 hours doing clicker tasks: endless farming, fishing, milling, sawing, milling, etc. etc. in order to fulfill requests, fill bellies, and complete collectible collections. At the time it felt nice to have something to do, but in hindsight it's filler. For us, even hugs quickly became a (pleasant) chore, something that should be done every X hours like a daily quest in an MMO. Which meant that if you DID have one of the rare emotional moments with a character, and you think they deserve a hug? Too bad, because you can only hug them once every X hours and no sooner.

I don't think the positive reviewers are biased or wrong. If anything, I'd say I'm jealous of them, because I wish I'd felt a closer connection to the characters. I can tell Thunder Lotus cared about what they made here, and I wish them success. I'm sure there are a lot of people who will like this game. It's a shame that I'm not one of them.

[galacticcorgi]

Първоначално публикувано от Malidictus:

Първоначално публикувано от galacticcorgi:

I mean, it's a game about death and dying. You can't REALLY have more beyond it.

Why not? The only reason Spiritfarer can't have anything beyond the protagonist's death is because the entire world disappears with her. Hence my comment of the story not mattering in the slightest. It's a fantasy world. There's no reason to make it contingent on the protagonist in its entirety.

You can still have all of the metaphors and personal journey made manifest in a world which is narratively tangible. Silent Hill games do this all the time. The dark world is surreal, the characters often manifestations of the protagonist's psyche, but the town of Silent Hill exist in the fiction, and survivors can still bring pieces of it out - such as Cheryl.

Simply assigning a new Spiritfarer before the protagonist bamfs would have solved all of these issues. Simply leaving the fantasy world behind, in other words.

Първоначално публикувано от galacticcorgi:

You can guess what's going on after Gwen if you pay attention. The fact the first three spirits are people Stella was close to is especially a big clue.

Spotting the plot twist isn't the issue. I could have guessed where the game was going without even playing it. It's an indie title - there's a roughly 50/50 shot of the protagonist having been dead all along, or been puppet all along, or was it was all in their head. This is pretty much directly spelled out after the first spirit is sent off.

My issue isn't that the twist disappointed me, so much as that it didn't. There were so many interesting ways to put a new spin on the same tired old story of a dead person living through purgatory, and yet the writers went for the oldest, most basic, most straightforward narrative.

It's basically a cuter version of Jacob's Ladder - which would be great of Jacob's Ladder didn't exist. Or Sanitorium. Or Limbo. Or the Sixth Sense. Or Inside. Maybe I'm getting too old by this point, but I really wish people would at least try to put their own unique spin om age-old ideas, instead of just recreating them whole-sale with better graphics.

The answer is that, frankly, the world may exist (there's hints it does, particularly Buck).

Go relook at Charon's "passing on." He never actually does. He doesn't go through the same process. The Everdoor doesn't light up how it would for anyone else. The game doesn't outright tell you this, it expects you to, like most things, catch on. The fact most people don't is not the writers' fault.

There's no need to assign a new Spiritfarer because Charon didn't stop being the main one, he just let Stella do things so SHE could pass on. Maybe stop huffing AAA games and disparaging indie games with similar premises (like AAA industry giants don't just largely pump out the same exact game with a new coat of paint CONSTANTLY) and you'd be able to make that connection yourself instead of needing it spelled out?

[Malidictus]

Първоначално публикувано от galacticcorgi:

Go relook at Charon's "passing on." He never actually does. He doesn't go through the same process. The Everdoor doesn't light up how it would for anyone else. The game doesn't outright tell you this, it expects you to, like most things, catch on. The fact most people don't is not the writers' fault.

I could write my own fan fiction to explain every aspect of the game if I cared to. Me (or you in this instance) being able to write a better story doesn't make the story presented less bad. This is precisely why I criticise indie games with vague stories. By simply not telling the core story but pretending to allude to it, you get players to write and defend their own original headcanon. Rather reminds me of commenter on the Ori and the Will of the Wisp forum insisting that "it's not in Ori's character" despite the character of Ori being entirely paper-thin.

Relying on the audience's imagination to assume a better story is not good writing. At best it's cheap, at worst it's lazy. Hiding behind "you just don't get it" does not fix this.

Първоначално публикувано от galacticcorgi:

There's no need to assign a new Spiritfarer because Charon didn't stop being the main one, he just let Stella do things so SHE could pass on. Maybe stop huffing AAA games and disparaging indie games with similar premises (like AAA industry giants don't just largely pump out the same exact game with a new coat of paint CONSTANTLY) and you'd be able to make that connection yourself instead of needing it spelled out?

So... I'm wrong because I'm dumb. Yeah, somehow I figured we'd eventually get there. I never once mentioned AAA games, nor based my arguments in them. I don't know what personal bias you're projecting on me, but you may want to take a step back think about your own behaviour. Believe it or not, people are capable of holding their own independent opinions different from yours without being wrong or inadequate.

If this is the level of discourse you have to offer, then I'm not interested.

[rmsgrey]

It's a game about letting go and saying goodbye. About accepting the fact of the great unknown that is death. About how even spending time with others' deaths doesn't help prepare you for your own end.

Literally, yes, the gameworld is the visions of a dying woman lying in a hospital bed and seeing a version of her life pass before her eyes.

On another level, it's Stella's quest to understand and accept her own death by examining the deaths of others, learning a lesson as she's dying that she failed to learn while living. That's a layer of meaning that would be missing if Stella simply took the job for a while and then retired through the Everdoor, handing on the job to a successor.

[Malidictus]

Първоначално публикувано от rmsgrey:

On another level, it's Stella's quest to understand and accept her own death by examining the deaths of others, learning a lesson as she's dying that she failed to learn while living. That's a layer of meaning that would be missing if Stella simply took the job for a while and then retired through the Everdoor, handing on the job to a successor.

Why? It seems to me like every aspect of what you described could be done equally as well through a physical world which exists outside of her own experience. Again - this is what Silent Hill does. The world that each protagonist experiences is created by their own consciousness, but the underlying town of Silent Hill still exists independent of all of them. Doesn't seem to stop people from proclaiming James Sunderland's story to be DA BEST STORY EVAAA!!!, regardless.

Or look at the movie Daybreak. It's a "Groundhog Day" style story that's part mystery, but a large part dealing with various characters' personal issues. Actions from one iteration of the day can affect the next, but the world itself isn't just an illusion.

I don't really see what would be lost if the world were not fully metaphorical.

[galacticcorgi]

Първоначално публикувано от Malidictus:

Първоначално публикувано от rmsgrey:

On another level, it's Stella's quest to understand and accept her own death by examining the deaths of others, learning a lesson as she's dying that she failed to learn while living. That's a layer of meaning that would be missing if Stella simply took the job for a while and then retired through the Everdoor, handing on the job to a successor.

Why? It seems to me like every aspect of what you described could be done equally as well through a physical world which exists outside of her own experience. Again - this is what Silent Hill does. The world that each protagonist experiences is created by their own consciousness, but the underlying town of Silent Hill still exists independent of all of them. Doesn't seem to stop people from proclaiming James Sunderland's story to be DA BEST STORY EVAAA!!!, regardless.

Or look at the movie Daybreak. It's a "Groundhog Day" style story that's part mystery, but a large part dealing with various characters' personal issues. Actions from one iteration of the day can affect the next, but the world itself isn't just an illusion.

I don't really see what would be lost if the world were not fully metaphorical.

BG3 could be told just as well as a CYOA podcast or book or even as a literal premade DND campaign. Instead they made a video game.

Same thing.

[rmsgrey]

Първоначално публикувано от Malidictus:

Първоначално публикувано от rmsgrey:

On another level, it's Stella's quest to understand and accept her own death by examining the deaths of others, learning a lesson as she's dying that she failed to learn while living. That's a layer of meaning that would be missing if Stella simply took the job for a while and then retired through the Everdoor, handing on the job to a successor.

Why? It seems to me like every aspect of what you described could be done equally as well through a physical world which exists outside of her own experience. Again - this is what Silent Hill does. The world that each protagonist experiences is created by their own consciousness, but the underlying town of Silent Hill still exists independent of all of them. Doesn't seem to stop people from proclaiming James Sunderland's story to be DA BEST STORY EVAAA!!!, regardless.

Or look at the movie Daybreak. It's a "Groundhog Day" style story that's part mystery, but a large part dealing with various characters' personal issues. Actions from one iteration of the day can affect the next, but the world itself isn't just an illusion.

I don't really see what would be lost if the world were not fully metaphorical.

If there were a persistent, independent reality to the setting, then it wouldn't be something specifically crafted and tailored for Stella.

[Malidictus]

Първоначално публикувано от rmsgrey:

If there were a persistent, independent reality to the setting, then it wouldn't be something specifically crafted and tailored for Stella.

Not in whole, but there's no reason a piece of it can't be carved out in part. Again - Silent Hill does this all of the time.