Flashing lights visual effects are unbearable and should be patched ASAP.

[Jezoskoczek]

Dear devs. I honestly can't believe this needs explaining in 2022.

Your game is not just plain unsafe for people who have epilepsy and similar disorders. This is not some "niche accessibility request" that will affect 5 people in the world. It is unbearable even for a large portion of relatively healthy players who just don't want their eyes and brains to melt after playing the game for a couple hours.

The full-screen flashes after cutting down every tree, mining every rock, picking up every crate, are 1) completely unnecessary 2) HORRIBLE AND UNBEARABLE TO EXPERIENCE.

I really want to enjoy this game, but it's really difficult when it insists I need to remember to close my eyes every minute or I else I'll get physically unwell.

Adding an option to remove all of those flashes should be your top priority thing to patch in. I can't emphasize enough how literally unplayable this makes the game, and that it doesn't only affect some "tiny minority" of "super photo sensitive" players.

(Who, btw, also deserve better than this from you, but you just decided to ignore them despite this problem being flagged numerous times over the years, because who cares about disabled people? Clearly not you. So here I am, a healthy player, pointing out the same ridiculously unnecessary problem with your game. Maybe you will treat it seriously this time.)

Please tell me this is going to get done.

[Psyringe]

I would have chosen a much less accusatory approach to deliver that message, but I agree that accessibility options are important.

The developers of Spiritfarer clearly _do_ care about accessibility, otherwise they would have gone the route of many other developers and fixed movement to WASD. They implemented a slider for the intensity of the screenshake and, for those of us with bad eyesight, another one for the text size. The game can be played by anyone deaf or hard of hearing since all audio cues also have a visual counterpart. They didn't implement colorblind filters, but I don't think they are needed for this game, as no information is color-coded.

Adding an option to remove the light flashes would definitely enhance the game's accessibility even more, and would be very welcome among players who have trouble with this aspect. However, as far as I remember, the developers have officially ended development on this game when they updated it to the "Farewell Edition". So I doubt that angry forum rants will change anything at this point (but to be fair, asking nicely probably won't either).

The best you can do, is write a review and hope that affected players see it before making a purchase. Or, if you would like to do something really awesome, help to create a Steam Curator that is focused on accessibility. Gamers with (or without) disabilities could subscribe to it to easily get information that is relevant for them. There have been numerous attempts to do this over the years, but AFAIK none has ever gained traction. Here's a recent attempt:
https://store.steampowered.com/curator/34384791-For-Better-Accessibility/

In case this post gets read by anyone interested in accessibility with regard to games, here's a link to an excellent resource:
https://gameaccessibilityguidelines.com/full-list/

[Jezoskoczek]

@Psyringe, thank you for the response.

Honestly, I don't think demanding a game that I bought to not hurt me is particularly overboard.

AFAIR this is what happened: They ignored the feedback they received and currently still sell a game that because of a flawed design decision makes some players physically unwell. They are aware of that, they even updated their FAQ with a warning, but to date didn't do anything at all to patch the game and stop hurting people who play it. This is all facts, not some malicious speculation or baseless accusations.

From what you're saying and what I can understand from their updates, it seems they decided to drop the project and completely stop updating it as soon as they were done with creating and releasing new content.

Ending support as soon as they completed the work on the storyline is frankly completely unacceptable from a modern game dev team. If I knew about that before I wouldn't have supported them by buying the game and getting engaged in it.

But I suppose there isn't anything to be done at this point. I'll be wary of
Thunder Lotus in the future and warn my friends. I'm very, very disappointed.

[Kitten Morag]

I'm going to say this right out loud- Thunder Lotus only wants to look like they care about disabled people in the most performative fashion. With their adjustment of the Gustav storyline after criticism from the wheelchair-using community, they've proven that they *can* listen. They just aren't.

It's not hard to put a warning in about photosensitive content, even if somehow the flashing is impossible to turn down. The visually impaired have also been begging for UI changes so they can read text since day one, too

Thunder Lotus want the praise for doing heavy lifting on access, but aren't willing to commit. It's a sham, and OP, you aren't the only one who's disappointed.

[Sminkle]

The flashing lights came out of nowhere and I was not expecting them, and they were so intense that I was thinking this game needs an epilepsy warning, if not settings to control that.

[Malkav0]

Way to go to make demands, surely having an insufferable and entitled tone is the fastest way to be listened to.
smh

[Medlife]

Hey!

First and foremost, I'd like to thank everyone for the feedback on this matter. Please know that we do listen and take into account all the feedback we've ever received.

As mentioned above, with the coming for the Farewell Edition, we will not be creating additional content for Spiritfarer. That said, we do fully encourage people to give us constructive criticism as it does impact our growth and learnings as developers. Spiritfarer's systems might not change moving forward, but the way we approach our next titles from the get-go most definitely will.

While Spiritfarer has been deemed completely safe from epilepsy standpoint, we fully understand the frustration and apologize for any discomfort or issues that may arise due to certain patterns of light or flashing lights in our game.

We heavily recommend everyone to:

• Play in a well-lit room to reduce the contrast between the screen light and background light;
  
• Reduce the brightness of your monitor;
  
• Keep as far back from the screen as possible (minimum five feet);
  
• Use wireless controls to help maintain a proper distance from your monitor;
  
• Use small screens. When watching large screens, increase the distance from the screen.
  
• Avoid playing if you're tired, especially if you are sleep deprived;
  
• Avoid excessive use of alcoholic beverages;
  
• Take frequent breaks from the game and look away from the screen every once in a while.
  
• Turn the game off if any strange or unusual feeling develops. If you start feeling your body jerking, cover one eye with one hand and immediately look away.

Sources: https://www.epilepsy.com/article/2014/3/shedding-light-photosensitivity-one-epilepsys-most-complex-conditions-0

If you feel that the issues persists, we fully support and recommend you to get in contact with Steam's Support to get a full refund.

[Jezoskoczek]

Hey @Medlife.

The second part of your response looks like a copypaste from your FAQ. I assume that's for the benefit of people who will come here from Google.

The first part does actually address my complaint directly and, at least regarding Spiritfarer, could be summarized with a "tl;dr: we know it's a problem, we still ain't gonna do anything about it".

So let me re-elaborate as well. It is very disappointing that you won't do anything about it. You created a lovely indie game that I completed with joy and have lots of warm feelings about. But I still cannot recommend it to anyone, epileptic or not, because your policy on its accessibility is simply ridiculous and shameful.

And the thing is, I'd really want to. I love supporting small indie game studios, throwing money and praise at them. Yet I cannot support yours.

It's really sad, to say the least.

(And as a side point, it is really surprising to me that y'all *heavily* insist on not creating any more updates for your game, but never give any reasons as to *why*. Is it some legal matters? Is it practical problems with e.g. lack of staff? Is it because you just don't want to? This lack of transparency with your players is really unusual from such a niche studio, and personally it just weirds me out.)

[Malkav0]

Originally posted by Jezoskoczek:

"tl;dr: we know it's a problem, we still ain't gonna do anything about it".

No ?

Originally posted by Medlife:

While Spiritfarer has been deemed completely safe from epilepsy standpoint,

[Kitten Morag]

Originally posted by Medlife:

Hey!
While Spiritfarer has been deemed completely safe from epilepsy standpoint

Yeah so someone signed off on that, but it's obviously not true IRL, due to the multiple people _in this forum alone_ have mentioned having epileptic reactions to it, let alone those with non-epileptic seizure disorders and other photosensitive conditions.

Could there at least be a warning on sales pages, not just on Steam, but other platforms? That's not adding anything to the game. Expecting people to go looking for content warnings and disclaimers on the Thunder Lotus website is an action of bad faith, especially when trying to demonstrate inclusiveness to other disabled people with changes to Gustav's script.

[Malkav0]

Originally posted by Kitten Morag:

Originally posted by Medlife:

Hey!
While Spiritfarer has been deemed completely safe from epilepsy standpoint

Yeah so someone signed off on that, but it's obviously not true IRL, due to the multiple people _in this forum alone_ have mentioned having epileptic reactions to it, let alone those with non-epileptic seizure disorders and other photosensitive conditions.

Could there at least be a warning on sales pages, not just on Steam, but other platforms? That's not adding anything to the game. Expecting people to go looking for content warnings and disclaimers on the Thunder Lotus website is an action of bad faith, especially when trying to demonstrate inclusiveness to other disabled people with changes to Gustav's script.

I mean, if they inquired a study and the entity that reviewed the game provided wrong results, they can hardly be responsible for that. It's not that what you ask for is unreasonable (quite the opposite), but you're oddly aggressive about it. I doubt a small indie company does such things out of corporate greed like triple A companies do - sure some small companies probably do but they don't release a Spiritfarer game, these tend to have no soul and thus no creativity.

As for Gustav or any character in the game, I thought it was just about writing good characters, I don't think I understand that will to put personnal meaning into it - granted I only saw Farewell Edition, so it's the final result of the work on the game.

[Kitten Morag]

Originally posted by Malkav0:

I mean, if they inquired a study and the entity that reviewed the game provided wrong results, they can hardly be responsible for that. It's not that what you ask for is unreasonable (quite the opposite), but you're oddly aggressive about it. I doubt a small indie company does such things out of corporate greed like triple A companies do - sure some small companies probably do but they don't release a Spiritfarer game, these tend to have no soul and thus no creativity.

As for Gustav or any character in the game, I thought it was just about writing good characters, I don't think I understand that will to put personnal meaning into it - granted I only saw Farewell Edition, so it's the final result of the work on the game.

Disabled people are frustrated about asking for basic accommodations like these. It's the year 2022. People putting 'this may cause seizures' on things with bright lights isn't too much to ask and it can literally kill people to not do so. This is the only response from the developers that i've been able to find on any forum (that may be my error, of course), and it doesn't even say 'we're sorry you won't be able to enjoy our game'.

As for Gustav, it's a reference to a text edit they made last year, removing wording which was egregiously distressing to some wheelchair users. They did so with consideration, respect, and apology, which made us pretty hopeful that something similar could be added for people with photosensitive conditions, and for some reason that's not a go. Not even a reason they're willing to explain- if they'd be unable to remove the flashing or not even insert a fifteen second slide with some of the above information about photosensitivity due to coding, or lack of resources as Jezoskoczek suggests above, I think we'd be more understanding.

I love indie games myself, and I am so personally disappointed that I won't be able to play this game, and that the people in my household are opting not to for my safety. I am, however, more worried for people who go in without any idea about the triggers, or those who are undiagnosed. There was a thread literally a day ago of someone saying 'I've not been diagnosed as epileptic, but i'm pretty sure I had something resembling a seizure playing this game'. Seizures can just kill people, no warning. That's why the aggression.

[Malkav0]

Originally posted by Kitten Morag:

Originally posted by Malkav0:

I mean, if they inquired a study and the entity that reviewed the game provided wrong results, they can hardly be responsible for that. It's not that what you ask for is unreasonable (quite the opposite), but you're oddly aggressive about it. I doubt a small indie company does such things out of corporate greed like triple A companies do - sure some small companies probably do but they don't release a Spiritfarer game, these tend to have no soul and thus no creativity.

As for Gustav or any character in the game, I thought it was just about writing good characters, I don't think I understand that will to put personnal meaning into it - granted I only saw Farewell Edition, so it's the final result of the work on the game.

Disabled people are frustrated about asking for basic accommodations like these. It's the year 2022. People putting 'this may cause seizures' on things with bright lights isn't too much to ask and it can literally kill people to not do so. This is the only response from the developers that i've been able to find on any forum (that may be my error, of course), and it doesn't even say 'we're sorry you won't be able to enjoy our game'.

As for Gustav, it's a reference to a text edit they made last year, removing wording which was egregiously distressing to some wheelchair users. They did so with consideration, respect, and apology, which made us pretty hopeful that something similar could be added for people with photosensitive conditions, and for some reason that's not a go. Not even a reason they're willing to explain- if they'd be unable to remove the flashing or not even insert a fifteen second slide with some of the above information about photosensitivity due to coding, or lack of resources as Jezoskoczek suggests above, I think we'd be more understanding.

I love indie games myself, and I am so personally disappointed that I won't be able to play this game, and that the people in my household are opting not to for my safety. I am, however, more worried for people who go in without any idea about the triggers, or those who are undiagnosed. There was a thread literally a day ago of someone saying 'I've not been diagnosed as epileptic, but i'm pretty sure I had something resembling a seizure playing this game'. Seizures can just kill people, no warning. That's why the aggression.

Understandably yes, the light effects are pretty strong, even to someone with no sensitivity known, I can see that. But I don't see the point in expecting apologies for this or that almost constantly, the year 2022 doesn't make us brighter or more omniscient than year 2000, errors will keep being made. Consider this, if everytime something isn't on par people receive anger, all they may do is stop trying. Consideration for mental health goes both ways and no one gets a pass. By now I'm pretty sure the severity of the lighting has been made pretty clear in this topic, if devs forum activity doesn't seem enough to answer the query, perhaps business email would be more efficient. And again in this case, a little temperance won't hurt.

[Jezoskoczek]

Originally posted by Malkav0:

Consider this, if everytime something isn't on par people receive anger, all they may do is stop trying.

Sorry, but having this kind of emotional reaction to customers telling you they're upset is not a way to manage a business. And Thunder Lotus, to their credit, seem to be aware at least of that much.

[Malkav0]

Originally posted by Jezoskoczek:

Originally posted by Malkav0:

Consider this, if everytime something isn't on par people receive anger, all they may do is stop trying.

Sorry, but having this kind of emotional reaction to customers telling you they're upset is not a way to manage a business. And Thunder Lotus, to their credit, seem to be aware at least of that much.

Ah yes, managing a business immediately suppress all humanity, as taught by the american way of life. It's not as much as being aware than it is being forced. Sorry but I'll never find any justification for having double standards between the way we speak and the way we want to be spoken too - don't care if it's a business or not.
If anything, the entity or method that presumably gave lacking results regarding the safety would be much more deserving of a harsh tone, as it would have failed in its main purpose.

[Jezoskoczek]

@Malkav0, okay, you're entitled to that opinion.
(Btw, just FYI, I'm not "American", I'm Eastern European.)